Rutherford calls out NHL on abuse of star players

[SEALBound]

Your analogy only makes sense if the gas stations are head of the gang that is robbing the gas stations. They would be able to stop it at any time they wished but they don't. My solution is to stop robbing each other's gas stations so to speak.

You are attacking the victim first though. Anyone who has watched any of the Penguins playoffs game this year, who then read the article, and then read your posts will see how disingenuous it was.

You can hate the Penguins, fine. No law that says you have to like everyone. But to call them out on not liking the abuse their star players get while icing Sestito for 17 games over two seasons (and NONE in the playoffs), and calling for them to be the ones to change first is absolute BS. Complete hogwash. Garbage through and through.

 

[tarheelhockey]

He then proceeded to elaborate from there well beyond Crosby. But he only went so far as to say "protect star players", not "protect hockey players". Given his elaboration, Kuhnhackl would not have been a non sequitur. Indeed, it would have emphasized his point - "all our guys are taking an unnecessarily large amount of abuse, not just Crosby".



This is disingenuous. A more apt comparison would be saying "yes, it's a bad situation, and we really ought to address it, not just for Gagner, but for all players. For example, look at what happened in February with Hartnell..."

He answered very much like that, except when he opted to broaden the answer, he limited it to star players. Not all players. Just stars.

He was asked about the abuse of his team's top star, and he responded on the topic of stars getting abused. Again it's not like this was a press release, he was answering a question in conversation. Expecting him to answer with a dissertation on equal protection for all players is not reasonable and certainly not a legitimate criticism of the valid point that he made.

 

[JacketsFanWest]

Asking the refs to call the same penalties the first day of season to game 7 of the finals, is unrealistic. It will never happen.

Why? The idea of letting the players play in the playoffs implies the rules really aren't the rules. They are there for appearances and when the "real" hockey starts in the playoffs, those rules don't apply. Or don't apply for certain players.

Or the players will police the game themselves. Sure, that will work - the player desperate to make a play to stop Crosby on the breakaway is going to think "oh no, I better not hit Crosby, someone on his team may beat my face in" in that split second.

The problem is there are so many ridiculous justifications for concepts that are outdated that fans and players alike won't let go of.

 

[nmbr_24]

You are attacking the victim first though. Anyone who has watched any of the Penguins playoffs game this year, who then read the article, and then read your posts will see how disingenuous it was.

You can hate the Penguins, fine. No law that says you have to like everyone. But to call them out on not liking the abuse their star players get while icing Sestito for 17 games over two seasons (and NONE in the playoffs), and calling for them to be the ones to change first is absolute BS. Complete hogwash. Garbage through and through.

First of all, I am not attacking anyone. I said nothing about Sestito. There have been way more players than Sestito who play like that. I said I am not going to believe that this is anything other than a ploy to get an advantage in the playoffs until he makes an effort to change things outside of the playoffs.

If they are going to call for change then I think the Penguins need to change as well.

They are going to have to live by the standard that they want and if they don't then the teams who want things the way they are because they don't have as many skilled players are going to be very unlikely to lead the way.

Walk the walk don't just talk the talk. I don't think that is too much to ask for, do you?

I also am saying that I hope they do exactly that. But this is still an attempt to get the refs to call more penalties against the opposition when they give guys like Crosby a rough ride. Exactly what other reason would he have for saying that to the media? I will believe he is sincere in his desire to change things if he continues to bring this up outside of the playoffs.

 

[Viqsi]

He was asked about the abuse of his team's top star, and he responded on the topic of stars getting abused. Again it's not like this was a press release, he was answering a question in conversation. Expecting him to answer with a dissertation on equal protection for all players is not reasonable and certainly not a legitimate criticism of the valid point that he made.

It's an interview with a reporter. One should expect to be quoted. It's not like he was randomly chatting with fans or something.

And I didn't ask for a "dissertation"; my point was that if the topic is going to be about a single player getting abused, and you want to talk about more than just that one player (and he clearly did), don't phrase it as though only certain players matter. Otherwise, we might be obliged to appeal the Calvert suspension because he didn't go after Crosby/Malkin/Kessel.

 

[lomiller1]

You are attacking the victim first though.

No he isn’t. The Penguins are one of the worst offenders. No one is suggesting the NHL shouldn’t crack down on the crap ALL players are subjected to, but the Penguins should be one of the first targets of that crackdown, and you’d need to be pretty naive to think this is what Rutherford has in mind making this statement at this time.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It's an interview with a reporter. One should expect to be quoted. It's not like he was randomly chatting with fans or something.

And I didn't ask for a "dissertation"; my point was that if the topic is going to be about a single player getting abused, and you want to talk about more than just that one player (and he clearly did), don't phrase it as though only certain players matter.

I don't know how to say this any differently so that it will get through, so all I can do is keep repeating -- Ken Campbell of The Hockey News was gathering material for an article about the abuse heaped on star players. He asked Rutherford to comment on the abuse Crosby takes, in the context of how the league protects its top talent.

This is direct from the article, Campbell's words and not Rutherford's:

"Somewhere along the line the NHL became comfortable with the notion that star players -- the ones with more natural skill, more drive and more of a willingness to sacrifice -- could be neutralized by inferior players who stepped outside the confines of the NHL's rulebook. It's become part of hockey culture and it's basically an accepted principle. The NHL is pretty much alone in this approach and almost seems to wear it as a badge of honor.
...
But you watch a game where Johnny Gaudreau takes 20 slashes on the hand before the 21st breaks his finger and you wonder why the league allows it. Connor McDavid, Jack Eichel and Auston Matthews are in for much of the same over the next couple of years."

In that context, where Campbell is asking questions on that specific topic, it makes no sense for Rutherford to pivot and suddenly start talking about 4th line grinders. That's not the subject of the discussion. And even if Rutherford DID say something about it, there's no way it gets quoted in the article because that's not what the article is supposed to be about.

 

[SEALBound]

First of all, I am not attacking anyone. I said nothing about Sestito. There have been way more players than Sestito who play like that. I said I am not going to believe that this is anything other than a ploy to get an advantage in the playoffs until he makes an effort to change things outside of the playoffs.

If they are going to call for change then I think the Penguins need to change as well.

They are going to have to live by the standard that they want and if they don't then the teams who want things the way they are because they don't have as many skilled players are going to be very unlikely to lead the way.

Walk the walk don't just talk the talk. I don't think that is too much to ask for, do you?

I also am saying that I hope they do exactly that. But this is still an attempt to get the refs to call more penalties against the opposition when they give guys like Crosby a rough ride. Exactly what other reason would he have for saying that to the media? I will believe he is sincere in his desire to change things if he continues to bring this up outside of the playoffs.

That's part of the problem you're NOT seeing. The Penguins have changed. They were to a purely skill and speed based team and are not considering reverting BACK to having those types of players. Sure they add Sestito from time to time but that's to combat the very thing Rutherford is complaining about. Yeah you have a guy like Malkin that makes a bad hit from time to time or Crosby with an unfortunate slash but by far away that's not either of those players games.

You are believing that the Penguins are every bit as part of the problem as the other teams but in fact, that is untrue. Milbury burned the Pens a couple times citing their lack of toughness and inability to get tough on Karlsson. The Penguins built their team around skill and speed and now they have to consider going back to old time hockey because the league is allowing an abundance of cheap shots on star players without retribution.

Your reaction is "well they have to change to". Change how? Who do you believe the Penguins have to change? Take out super tough guy Sheary? Hagelin? Rust? What about the monster of dman Daley? Or beefcake Maatta? Who?

My guess is you're going to cite one or two plays from Malkin and Crosby and use it as evidence in your favor while completely ignoring the disgusting magnitude of what they receive vs what they give. If that's your argument, save your breath because it's going nowhere.

So you keep saying "don't talk the talk, walk the walk". Okay...time to nut up or shut dude, what changes do the Penguins "also make"? From this years roster moving forward. Don't cite Cooke, Neal, or Downie. You can try Sestito but that will play into my argument, not yours. So go ahead...back up your ludicrous claims.

 

[Soundwave]

Just go back to calling the game as it was 05-06 and 06-07. Don't tell me it can't be done, because it WAS done just fine for two full seasons before refs start to let the crap clutch n' grab back into the game.

 

[BigEezyE22]

What you would do is go to the GM meetings and bring it up and say you are willing to make the change even if nobody else is willing otherwise you are just as guilty of this as everyone else.

The Penguins are suggesting something in the finals? You and I and everyone else knows that nothing is going to change in the finals.

It is the timing of this and the proven unwillingness of the Penguins to change that makes it questionable to me.

What reason is there to bring this up now instead of at the GM meetings? It is pretty simple, to try and gain an advantage in the finals.

Like I said before, maybe he completely means what he is saying but he is going to have to prove with his actions and the actions of his team before I think this is anything other than a ploy. I would be all for this change by the way.

So what Rutherford should say is, "hey, next season I'm going to position my players to be martyrs for the cause," right? Makes a ton of sense, Ghandi.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

No he isn’t. The Penguins are one of the worst offenders. No one is suggesting the NHL shouldn’t crack down on the crap ALL players are subjected to, but the Penguins should be one of the first targets of that crackdown, and you’d need to be pretty naive to think this is what Rutherford has in mind making this statement at this time.

Plz provide evidence the Pens "are one of the worst offenders"

 

[Spazkat]

That's part of the problem you're NOT seeing. The Penguins have changed. They were to a purely skill and speed based team and are not considering reverting BACK to having those types of players. Sure they add Sestito from time to time but that's to combat the very thing Rutherford is complaining about. Yeah you have a guy like Malkin that makes a bad hit from time to time or Crosby with an unfortunate slash but by far away that's not either of those players games.

or Crosby with the nutshots, or Kunitz crosschecking a guy in the head, or Hornqvist with some of his net front antics (although admittedly the last flying elbow he threw took out his own teammate because he missed so... ). Saying a player does bad things sometimes but "that's really not their game" covers most of the players people are complaining about. Pretending that your team is immune to the goonery they profess to want out of the game is extremely misleading and doesn't really do anything to further the conversation.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It doesn't matter, there's not even a need to defend that point.

It's impossible to achieve change from within a system if the mob shouts "hypocrite!" as soon as someone attempts it. We can all easily think of systems that we've participated in, and don't like, and want to see changed. In this case the ONLY way the system will be changed is if it's fixed from within, so if people really are tired of seeing their team's star player pummeled every night, then they need to get past the "but what about when Rutherford..." mentality.

This is A LOT like when Lemieux complained about obstruction and fans across the league dogpiled on him as a complainer.

It is also impossible to achieve change within the system when while identifying the problem he openly admits he isn't going to even attempt another way.

Rutherford is in a position where he should care about every player and not just stars either. While he is on to some things with these comments he needed to think it through more and if he wanted to talk about it as a league-wide problem he should be at least attempting to seek change which he highlighted he won't be doing.

Also for the record we have GM meetings where he has the floor for this kind of crap if he cares about the greater good of the game and he should be proposing this stuff there. Sorry no back pat for this. This can be seen as a ploy to get calls, I hope he is screaming this at the next resort they all meet at.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It is also impossible to achieve change within the system when while identifying the problem he openly admits he isn't going to even attempt another way.

His entire point is that he HAS attempted to go the other way... for a full decade or more... and the league is deliberately moving in the other direction. This is not Brian Burke or Bob Murray we're talking about. Look at where Rutherford's teams have finished in the PIM column for the past quarter-century. Look at the roster construction of his teams that have won Stanley Cups and made other long playoff runs.

Rutherford is the poster child for building a soft, fast team with no real goon or superpest in the lineup. It says something when he flat-out states that he's no longer able to do that in good conscience, knowing it puts his team at a disadvantage.

Rutherford is in a position where he should care about every player and not just stars either. While he is on to some things with these comments he needed to think it through more

For the umpteenth time -- these quotes are embedded in a THN article about the abuse heaped on star players. That was the basis of the exchange between Rutherford and Ken Campbell. Even he actually did force the conversation off topic to talk about non-star players, he would never have been quoted for it and we would know no different.

Also for the record we have GM meetings where he has the floor for this kind of crap if he cares about the greater good of the game and he should be proposing this stuff there.

And knowing Rutherford's philosophy, he probably HAS brought this stuff to the GM meetings. Clearly the GMs are not going to instigate change for themselves without public pressure, because they've had over two decades to address the issue and here we are.

 

[BigEezyE22]

It is also impossible to achieve change within the system when while identifying the problem he openly admits he isn't going to even attempt another way.

Rutherford is in a position where he should care about every player and not just stars either. While he is on to some things with these comments he needed to think it through more and if he wanted to talk about it as a league-wide problem he should be at least attempting to seek change which he highlighted he won't be doing.

Also for the record we have GM meetings where he has the floor for this kind of crap if he cares about the greater good of the game and he should be proposing this stuff there. Sorry no back pat for this. This can be seen as a ploy to get calls, I hope he is screaming this at the next resort they all meet at.

Also for the record HE WAS ASKED IN AN INTERVIEW. He did not go out of the way to bring it up. He. Was. Asked.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Also for the record HE WAS ASKED IN AN INTERVIEW. He did not go out of the way to bring it up. He. Was. Asked.

But why did he bring it up now?