Russian Five of TB

[geoo9]

Guys i just realized that Yzerman just wanted to make "Russan young Five" like he was meet , saw and play with in Red Wings earlyer. Young prospects, theyr numbers 86,87 (i think It waill for Nikita Gusev who plays at KHL now), 88 , 89,90
It will be Russsian Six with best goalie prospect from russia. I think this is Steve s vision of development of This Line

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[Bolt32]

Guys i just realized that Yzerman just wanted to make "Russan young Five" like he was meet , saw and play with in Red Wings earlyer. Young prospects, theyr numbers 86,87 (i thing It waill for Nikita Gusev who plays at KHL now), 88 , 89,90
It will be Russsian Six with best goalie prospect from russia. I think this is Steve s vision of development of This Line

I think during Yzerman's stint in Detroit while he was team-mates with the Russian Five he learned to appreciate the Russian Culture. Hence forth at draft time he isn't timid at drafting a Russian as most GM's seem to be. I think that is about the extent of it however. I don't think remaking the Russian Five is what he had in mind. More or less just was "This Russian is the best player left, draft him." and that as that.

 

[DFC]

The Russian 5 was a whole different animal. They were also a lot older than most people realize. A couple of them were legends back in Russia.

Yzerman's simply picking the best players available and ignoring the Russian factor. Nothing more than that.

 

[geoo9]

I think during Yzerman's stint in Detroit while he was team-mates with the Russian Five he learned to appreciate the Russian Culture. Hence forth at draft time he isn't timid at drafting a Russian as most GM's seem to be. I think that is about the extent of it however. I don't think remaking the Russian Five is what he had in mind. More or less just was "This Russian is the best player left, draft him." and that as that.

May be - But He realizes that russians will be better play together - Its about mentality, language and understanding. If im not wrong -They are good friends.
And they will play Better together.
Sure -they must earn their spots though as a best possible player at that position.
Steve sends Connoly so Namest will take spot. Their Similar numbers at jerseys. That all make me think about Steves decision at Russian Line. Russian Five was one best Lines ever i think. let's see how the situation will develop. Steve has his own vision - and we see that have profit

 

[geoo9]

The Russian 5 was a whole different animal. They were also a lot older than most people realize. A couple of them were legends back in Russia.

Yzerman's simply picking the best players available and ignoring the Russian factor. Nothing more than that.

Sure but why not? Who knows what in Steves brain) He remebers Russian Five - And i think it was Main reason to not scare Rus factor

 

[DFC]

Sure but why not? Who knows what in Steves brain) He remebers Russian Five - And i think it was Main reason to not scare Rus factor

I really doubt that. There were 2.5 Hall of Fame talents on the Russian 5. I don't think Yzerman has any aspirations to recreate specific lines that played with the wings. He wouldn't be very successful if he did. And Jon Cooper comes up with line combos anyway. The Wings didn't have anything like TKO. More than that, the Russians we've been drafting, stylistically, play nothing like the Russian 5.

 

[geoo9]

The Wings didn't have anything like TKO. More than that, the Russians we've been drafting, stylistically, play nothing like the Russian 5.

Let me disagree with you here. TKO line - Line full of small skilled players -who scores by perfect passing , openin for shoot , speed and chemystry. Even defenders at that Rus line often finds free space to breackaway and score. That was improoved TKO line - as i see it. Improoved at better involvement of defenders at offesive play. No matter skill level at that- main reason is chemistry . TKO line will be better and better if Coop develop them right. Russian Five just proves everyone - that russian are good at playoffs too and chemistry is more important than skill. TKO have incredible chemistry even in the first year of the joint. They have not floor to upgrade. Just read something about Russian five at that era in league.

 

[The Macho King]

I really doubt that. There were 2.5 Hall of Fame talents on the Russian 5. I don't think Yzerman has any aspirations to recreate specific lines that played with the wings. He wouldn't be very successful if he did. And Jon Cooper comes up with line combos anyway. The Wings didn't have anything like TKO. More than that, the Russians we've been drafting, stylistically, play nothing like the Russian 5.

I think a lot of that has to do with the pretty big change that's come in the development of Russian hockey players. Just not the same as when the Iron Curtain was still up.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

For sure Yzerman is not that prototypical North American general manager looking only for grit & toughness. Even back in the 90's Detroit was the proof skills, speed and hockey sense could be a winning combination and it's even more true nowadays. SFY just applies today the things he learned as a player. Yzerman is not afraid to draft Russians because their style can fit the bill but it's not particularly the Russian players that he's directly looking for, firstly he wants what the TKO represents and we all know what it means. Yzerman couldn't care less whether they were Chinese or Cuban in the end, he wants players capable to outsmart you and beat you with their skills.

 

[DFC]

Let me disagree with you here. TKO line - Line full of small skilled players -who scores by perfect passing , openin for shoot , speed and chemystry. Even defenders at that Rus line often finds free space to breackaway and score. That was improoved TKO line - as i see it. Improoved at better involvement of defenders at offesive play. No matter skill level at that- main reason is chemistry . TKO line will be better and better if Coop develop them right. Russian Five just proves everyone - that russian are good at playoffs too and chemistry is more important than skill. TKO have incredible chemistry even in the first year of the joint. They have not floor to upgrade. Just read something about Russian five at that era in league.

I don't need to read it. I watched every game they played as a unit.

They were ultra skilled (Slava Kozlov is criminally underrated in hindsight) and played a possession game before possession hockey was the cool thing. And part of what made it so special was simply the way it looked. It was like "big ice" hockey on an NHL surface. If the Russians didn't like the way the rush looked, they would literally pass the puck out of the zone and regroup at center ice, or even in their own zone. There was nothing like that going on in the NHL at the time, and there hasn't been since.

As FOY pointed out, Russian players aren't even really developed to play that sort of style anymore. There was very little forecheck. They just passed and stickhandled until something opened up. If nothing opened up, they got off the ice. It looked very much like a game of keep away.

Maybe Robert has different memories of it, but that's what I remember seeing. It would be pretty much impossible to recreate that line today. The best you can do is hope you can get some great chemistry. If that comes because guys happen to be Russian, then so be it, but it'll be five Russians playing a North American game.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Speaking of Russian-related things, did someone post the Fedotenko article here or did I read it on Facebook? He's playing for an AHL affiliate after his arena got burned down in Ukraine.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I don't need to read it. I watched every game they played as a unit.

They were ultra skilled (Slava Kozlov is criminally underrated in hindsight) and played a possession game before possession hockey was the cool thing. And part of what made it so special was simply the way it looked. It was like "big ice" hockey on an NHL surface. If the Russians didn't like the way the rush looked, they would literally pass the puck out of the zone and regroup at center ice, or even in their own zone. There was nothing like that going on in the NHL at the time, and there hasn't been since.

As FOY pointed out, Russian players aren't even really developed to play that sort of style anymore. There was very little forecheck. They just passed and stickhandled until something opened up. If nothing opened up, they got off the ice. It looked very much like a game of keep away.

Maybe Robert has different memories of it, but that's what I remember seeing. It would be pretty much impossible to recreate that line today. The best you can do is hope you can get some great chemistry. If that comes because guys happen to be Russian, then so be it, but it'll be five Russians playing a North American game.

konstintinov was unreal skilled fetisov was great so two great d men. I personally believe when all said and done conny was gonna be better then lidstrom which is saying something.

had three true centers with federov one of best two way players in game

The original russian five was 3 centers I believe and two d men and they dominated intl hockey in the 80s and I mean dominated lol fetisov d man and larionov were on the original russian five internation team.


They all played think of having five filppulas on a line that play like palat chasing pucks hahah
it was unfair and no teams really could match.

Think in 97 when won the first cup if that line scored we won like 15 games and lost like less then five lol.

They were fun to watch but they did everything they hounded you they kept puck for minutes at a time.

All highly skilled willing to sacrifice etc..

conny was my favorite player of all time probably he was becoming something I had not really seen im my life at that time.

I am not sure he could have improved on that norris type of year and the plus minus but he honestly seemed to be getting better and better lol.

Got to realize in 2010 30 years later federov and kozlov I believe were still active in russia that is INSANE the skill these guys had the longevity just amazing.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when DFC says little forecheck the soviet system explicitly expressed to forecheck like crazy mofos.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Speaking of Russian-related things, did someone post the Fedotenko article here or did I read it on Facebook? He's playing for an AHL affiliate after his arena got burned down in Ukraine.

Normal day in Eastern Europe.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I really doubt that. There were 2.5 Hall of Fame talents on the Russian 5. I don't think Yzerman has any aspirations to recreate specific lines that played with the wings. He wouldn't be very successful if he did. And Jon Cooper comes up with line combos anyway. The Wings didn't have anything like TKO. More than that, the Russians we've been drafting, stylistically, play nothing like the Russian 5.

gotta side with dfc I am not sure you goog understand the russian five or maybe age language barrier?

Konny was one of best d men alive maybe one of best all time. Fetisov is one of most under appreciated or known d men of all time and he was original russian five was just one of those guys you give a job or role to and forget about cause the job is done lol.

Maybe fetisov is bigger in eastern european circles and he is deserving but was not flashy etc.. so think he is overlooked like larionov who was vital in winning three cups lol or kozlov etc..

konny and federov were flashy one for hits the other for everything shoot federov was put into games as a d man and he was one of best when he was haha.

So where do you pick up the perfect d man? Then the perfect d man partner who just does his job quietly officiently etc..

then get argue wise one of best two way centers of all time ho happens to be one of most clutch players in playoffs of all time who is also one of the fastest guys in hockey? Add two legit top 6 centermen who just have full games and do everything.

Five guys with puck skills as good as anyone who think the game.

Was like watching a wave when they were on ice.

We got some pieces vasi goalie lol

kucherov vladdy nesterov they dont equal the russian five and none are like konny or federov

those two were rare konny was physical and skills like lidstrom who is argue wise one of greatest d men of all time. And federov was bure speed with clutch play and one of best two way forwards in history of the league.

I hope kucherov can be as good as zetterberg or datsyuk defensively one day. Nesterov is a highly skilled player but doubt he ever is close to fetisov level of play much less konnys vladdy is smart and his uncle is kozlov one of the detroit russian five and he seems to have everything but needs weight and muscle and could be close to as good as say kozlov when is all said and done that wouldnt shock me.

But finding a konny? Or kucherov being as good as federov? Good luck.

But then wheres the other two larionov who if steve wasnt the captain he would have been. They had it all honestly.

 

[geoo9]

in any case, I do not know GM motives
What did he thinks about development of team and bunch of young russians there. But looks like guys understand the responsibility for their development and see themselves together in this team. I think Yzerman would like to have eventually such a line as the Russian Five(soft & young version And Droun may be perfect part of that line).

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Correct me if I'm wrong but when DFC says little forecheck the soviet system explicitly expressed to forecheck like crazy mofos.

they did it differently though they used angles when going after a puck carrier is same style datsyuk or palat uses so wasnt big hits they just went to right spot took puck moved it instantly and played keep away lol

They all did it konny would hit though hard lol.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

they did it differently though they used angles when going after a puck carrier is same style datsyuk or palat uses so wasnt big hits they just went to right spot took puck moved it instantly and played keep away lol

They all did it konny would hit though hard lol.

Yeah I get where things may be mixed up. The "different" forecheck you're describing is the usual way to me.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

in any case, I do not know GM motives
What did he thinks about development of team and bunch of young russians there. But looks like guys understand the responsibility for their development and see themselves together in this team. I think Yzerman would like to have eventually such a line as the Russian Five.

i said this a couple years ago.

Yet gusev is a wash out really.

So wont be russians all russians.

I still think kucherov goes to play with stamkos and drouin in time.


The tko line has developed like the russian five palat and kucherov attack people on boards same way datsyuk does and they are just getting better and better at it tyjo plays his own style which I have not figured out yet but works for him haha.

Nesterov was super high on had off year last year now am blown away at his progress and not sure any longer what he develops into but is a huge NICE surprise.

Good news is they like each other all these kids second good news is all these russians are not asking for favors they work azzes off to become great players

You hear all the time on lazy russians we are 100% in getting the ones with huge drive and character.

Says a ton on our people running things and on russia overall and what they are now building there lately.

With guys like galchenyuk and barbashev you guys are doing great to develop legit russian two way players

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Yeah I get where things may be mixed up. The "different" forecheck you're describing is the usual way to me.

well people think more on the style that the grind line for detroit played as being a forecheck line

 

[geoo9]

But finding a konny? Or kucherov being as good as federov? Good luck.

But then wheres the other two larionov who if steve wasnt the captain he would have been. They had it all honestly.

My opinion was about the principle of forming and building game that possible line. I said nothing about skill level and individual similarity. Russian Five Played many years together before they meet in NHL.
Fedorov in your example is more Palat - all players different, But they have theyr own skills and chemistry. If you watch old Can Rus games you ll see more similarities to TKO line - played versus big and strong opponent lines. Skill , speed chemystry - theyr basis. Sure all of this just dreams or assumptions,Guys must prove themself first.
Kuch reminds me more Alex Mogilny. Nesterov is too early to tell how he develop himself
http://youtu.be/8f6k1c-KscA Look at Mogilny - he plays like Kuchs twin

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

Yzerman and the scouts just don't discriminate on the draft floor. Every organization out there has their own draft philosophy on how to evaluate potential prospects. Some teams care more about certain aspects than others, and shy away from players with things they don't like. For example, some teams are hesitant on taking Russians or other European players. Some look down on players coming from "lower level" leagues. Others are critical of a player's size, skating ability, or height. The lightning try not to limit themselves as much as other teams when it comes to some of these things.

The reason we have these great Russians in the system is because some of those fears, the Russian Factor type stuff, were non-issues for us. Like with Kucherov, he wanted to stay in Russia. For a lot of teams that was a turn off. For us, we were perfectly fine with him continuing with that route of development.

With Kucherov and some of the other Russian picks, it wasn't so much we targeted Russian players, or were looking for Russians, we just liked these guys specifically. Luckily they happened to fall to us for one reason or another.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

My opinion was about the principle of forming and building game that possible line. I said nothing about skill level and individual similarity. Russian Five Played many years together before they meet in NHL.
Fedorov in your example is more Palat - all players different, But they have theyr own skills and chemistry. If you watch old Can Rus games you ll see more similarities to TKO line - played versus big and strong opponent lines. Skill , speed chemystry - theyr basis. Sure all of this just dreams or assumptions,Guys must prove themself first.
Kuch reminds me more Alex Mogilny. Nesterov is too early to tell how he develop himself
http://youtu.be/8f6k1c-KscA Look at Mogilny - he plays like Kuchs twin

I first thought you were talking about an unit exclusively made with Russian players but since you include Palat...

So I can definitely agree with this if you mean it's more an example Yzerman & Murray are trying to follow. Palat & Johnson have been playing for years together now like the kids used to develop in USSR. And it's so true the TKO plays a very similar game to those soviet lines back in the day. I'll say it again, Yzerman witnessed with his own eyes the combination of speed, skills & hockey sense at a high level can be a recipe to success, and it was during the dead puck era. Now you just need to look at our prospect pool to understand what Yzerman is trying to achieve. In short changing the game in the nhl. Faster, smarter, better.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Guys i just realized that Yzerman just wanted to make "Russan young Five" like he was meet , saw and play with in Red Wings earlyer. Young prospects, theyr numbers 86,87 (i thing It waill for Nikita Gusev who plays at KHL now), 88 , 89,90
It will be Russsian Six with best goalie prospect from russia. I think this is Steve s vision of development of This Line

I don't think SFY is drafting the russians thinking of making a russian great 5.
Instead he's driven by the talents and skills that russians do have because of how hockey is played there and he doesn't hesitate to pick them... because if they get teached how to play NA style with the talent they have... kucherovs and datsyuks happen.

 

[geoo9]

I first thought you were talking about an unit exclusively made with Russian players but since you include Palat...

So I can definitely agree with this if you mean it's more an example Yzerman & Murray are trying to follow. Palat & Johnson have been playing for years together now like the kids used to develop in USSR. And it's so true the TKO plays a very similar game to those soviet lines back in the day. I'll say it again, Yzerman witnessed with his own eyes the combination of speed, skills & hockey sense at a high level can be a recipe to success, and it was during the dead puck era. Now you just need to look at our prospect pool to understand what Yzerman is trying to achieve. In short changing the game in the nhl. Faster, smarter, better.

Yepp - Palat , Johnson and especially Drouin They all Perfect for that style. Red five is just term which means -chemestry and posession skills. Lets hope at Yzermans model will work at its best. SO sure Selecting russians was just buisness decision -selecting best possible players who falls because rus factor. But if Nesterov and Namest develops right way i think Yzerman can performanother lines like TKO style line.? and who knows which lines Coop makes then.May be we ll see little russian 5 ) as 2-3 d playing line with Drouin at wing who will be perfect for posession passing smart style