Dr Pepper
Registered User
To be more accurate on the bolded: athletes who haven’t yet been caught red handed
Guess it's "guilty until proven innocent" for you, then?
For most people it's the other way around.
To be more accurate on the bolded: athletes who haven’t yet been caught red handed
Guess it's "guilty until proven innocent" for you, then?
For most people it's the other way around.
Guess it's "guilty until proven innocent" for you, then?
For most people it's the other way around.
When it comes to doping cases it applies.
We’re talking about an organized government-run doping operation here. The fact that a particular athlete evaded testing positive is hardly enough to inspire confidence that they’re clean.
I'd much rather the IOC/WADA just ramp up their testing and deal with cheaters once they're caught.
Pre-emptively banning an entire country for four years just seems heavy-handed to me.
Also, again, just because an athlete is clean doesn't mean they "evaded testing positive". If you take the mindset that every single Russian athlete is a cheater who just hasn't been caught yet, you're doing yourself a disservice while also making the path to success much harder for the many clean Russian athletes out there who just want to compete.
Also, again, just because an athlete is clean doesn't mean they "evaded testing positive". If you take the mindset that every single Russian athlete is a cheater who just hasn't been caught yet, you're doing yourself a disservice while also making the path to success much harder for the many clean Russian athletes out there who just want to compete.
The problem with the situation is like this, though:
In the US, every athlete is more or less independent. There are training groups, which are market-force entities. There is no real USATF or US (governing body) intervention in Olympic sport in the US. The exception to this would be gymnastics, perhaps. But even in that situation, there are gymnastics academies which function along side the US governing body oversight. In a situation like this one, in the US, there is lots of room for athletes to choose their own doping regimen. Whether it's full-out push the limits (in my opinion, working with Salazar), push the limits independently, or just make judicial use or TUEs, or even, no doping at all. Athlete recruitment is such in the US that the state itself is not involved at all.
Now, contrast that with Russia. The Russian government is involved in every step of the process. Russian sport governing bodies have a TREMENDOUS amount of control over who even gets to try which sports. I would imagine that Russian sport governing bodies also dictate training. And, it seems clear that RUSADA is connected to the Kremlin as well. In a system like that, the reasonable conclusion is that athletes have no choice but to do as they are told. There is much less room for athletes to make their own choices. So, when the state attempts a many-years-long coverup of the doping of its athletes, the supposition is that the state itself has been sponsoring the doping. THAT'S THE SADDEST PART. Given the way sport works in Russia, there is no way for any athlete to appear 'clean'. The only evidence they have is drug tests, and RUSADA has made all of those useless. So, every Russian athlete will be under suspicion if they compete, no matter what. And, there is no way to change that, unless RUSADA and the Kremlin give up on the idea of using sport as a proof to the Russian people of how great Russia is. It's a sad, sad situation.
That argument would be a lot easier to swallow if those athletes didn't have to go through an official government doping regimen as part of their standing with the Russian Olympic program.
It's incredibly naive to treat this as though Russian athletes just wandered into the Olympic Village and took part in competitions without any organization behind them running the show.
So, like I said, what's stopping WADA/IOC from letting them compete and then nailing them afterwards with a stringent doping test, as per usual? In the end the Russian athletes get to compete at the Olympics, and if they're proven to have cheated, the usual process applies.
I don't want to go through another two Olympics featuring "IOC Athletes from Russia" or whatever they were called, like we were all supposed to pretend Russia doesn't exist for the duration of the Games.
Seems equally naive to blindly assume every single one of them is juicing..
What's stopping them from letting them compete and then nailing them is that WADA isn't funded well enough to implement such a stringent testing program, and that's the reason the national ADAs are supposed to do it.
Furthermore, out-of-competition testing is very important because in sports like Track and Field, the training time is more important than the performing time. So, for WADA/IOC to only test the athletes at the competition means that those athletes have complete permission to dope all through their training. And, that doesn't make fair competition. The difficulty with anti-doping is that "positive tests" only are a very WEAK way of catching cheaters.
And, the athletes and the fans who follow closely know that, so just testing them at the Olympics won't change the opinions of others - they will still be assumed to have doped in their training cycle.
As I said, the problem here is that the RUSADA has created a situation in which Russian athletes who want to be clean and compete clean are the victims, because they have no real way of doing so which leaves them out of suspicion. That's why some say the problem is internal Russian politics.
Seems equally naive to blindly assume every single one of them is juicing..
So, like I said, what's stopping WADA/IOC from letting them compete and then nailing them afterwards with a stringent doping test, as per usual? In the end the Russian athletes get to compete at the Olympics, and if they're proven to have cheated, the usual process applies.
I don't want to go through another two Olympics featuring "IOC Athletes from Russia" or whatever they were called, like we were all supposed to pretend Russia doesn't exist for the duration of the Games.
Yes, pure domestic Russian politics.
That poster isn't wrong. It’s always politics, in the big picture. Doping is just one part of it.
Why is Russia banned as an entity while not a single international sanction is placed on the US when it comes to light that one of our governing bodies for years ignored and enabled heinous crimes 100 times worse than doping? I mean cmon now.
Because it's not government involvement and WADA doesn't deal with sexual abuse. Who's going to sanction the US for that? And it's not like the guilty aren't being punished for those acts.
I'd much rather the IOC/WADA just ramp up their testing and deal with cheaters once they're caught.
Pre-emptively banning an entire country for four years just seems heavy-handed to me.
Also, again, just because an athlete is clean doesn't mean they "evaded testing positive". If you take the mindset that every single Russian athlete is a cheater who just hasn't been caught yet, you're doing yourself a disservice while also making the path to success much harder for the many clean Russian athletes out there who just want to compete.
Because it's not government involvement and WADA doesn't deal with sexual abuse. Who's going to sanction the US for that? And it's not like the guilty aren't being punished for those acts.
Who would sanction us? The IOC could. Instead they choose to ban Russia for actions not nearly as abhorrent.
Read my post again. The implementation WADA's recommendations is a small part of the larger issue of pro-western politics influencing sport. This shouldn't be rocket science to anybody. Heck S. Africa was banned for decades by the IOC for politiucal reasons unrelated to sport. Meanwhile we get off scot-free after molesting children for years.
You can't be this obtuse.
Who would sanction us? The IOC could. Instead they choose to ban Russia for actions not nearly as abhorrent.
Read my post again. The implementation of WADA's recommendations is a small part of the larger issue of pro-western politics influencing sport. This shouldn't be rocket science to anybody. Heck S. Africa was banned for decades by the IOC for political reasons unrelated to sport. Meanwhile we get off scot-free after molesting children for years.
You can't be this obtuse.
Irony. Were those gymnast molested/abused BY THE GOVERNMENT OR THEIR ORDERS?
It's you who can't see the past your own political bias. I mean for **** sakes, several Russian athletes and their own head of RUSADA admit guilt. Why the **** are you engaging in blatant whataboutism?
Nobody with an ounce of integrity is advocating for Russia not to be punished. Red herring.
But Russia’s shenanigans shouldn’t blind us to the fact that the US is conveniently being let off the hook for our B.S. Who gives a **** if our government wasn’t directly involved, our official national governing body looked the other way while hundred of girls were molested for 2 decades. Lives ruined. Gruesome and unspeakable occurrences.
I have a bridge to sell you if you think this isn't rooted in politics, particularly considering the IOC has shown itself to be subject to political bias by banning S Africa for 3 decades for something that had nothing to do with sports.
I guess Russia is showing how stupid they are at getting caught repeatedly then.This is politics, to think that athletes from other countries don't use drugs is naive.
I guess Russia is showing how stupid they are at getting caught repeatedly then.
But that's what happens when the leaders of a group refuse to change after multiple infractions. It is a lot easier to do a blanket ban than create a group who combs through every single person to see if they are legit or not. It's not fair, but that's how things work.It is not all the Russian athletes that do, it is some and the whole country should not suffer because of it.
Not to go into politics too much(PM me if you want to get into politics) if Russia was a "gas station" like the western countries wanted, than this would never happen.
If you are going to ban the whole country, tell the names of the athletes that do it. No complaints were made to the National Olympic committee, why did this happen? If no complaints are made to the National Olympic Committee, than a country can according to the Olympic Charter compete on the Olympics under their own name and own national flag.
its not russia that is stupid, its the rubes who buy into the " nothing has been proven and if it has its a western plot" that gives them cover. that's the problemI guess Russia is showing how stupid they are at getting caught repeatedly then.
I'd much rather the IOC/WADA just ramp up their testing and deal with cheaters once they're caught.
Pre-emptively banning an entire country for four years just seems heavy-handed to me.
Also, again, just because an athlete is clean doesn't mean they "evaded testing positive". If you take the mindset that every single Russian athlete is a cheater who just hasn't been caught yet, you're doing yourself a disservice while also making the path to success much harder for the many clean Russian athletes out there who just want to compete.
It is not all the Russian athletes that do, it is some and the whole country should not suffer because of it.
Not to go into politics too much(PM me if you want to get into politics) if Russia was a "gas station" like the western countries wanted, than this would never happen.
If you are going to ban the whole country, tell the names of the athletes that do it. No complaints were made to the National Olympic committee, why did this happen? If no complaints are made to the National Olympic Committee, than a country can according to the Olympic Charter compete on the Olympics under their own name and own national flag.