Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread: We're so f***ed. Shit out of luck. Hardwired to self-destruct.

[Ritchie Valens]

Holland has painted himself into a corner and to the surprise of no one, is dealing from weakness for goaltending.

Hopefully Katz went on a tirade and promised to shitcan the whole lot of them if they miss the playoffs and he'd personally shitcan Tippett himself if they lose the next two games.

Credit to @ThreeOfAPerfectPair who posted a snippet of Friedman's 32 thoughts in the previous thread:

Click to read more...

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It's so depressing when you could see this collapse coming from miles away by trotting out the same goaltending duo that couldn't get it done the last two years.

And we have the highest paid GM in the league sitting on his thumbs because nobody's really interested in doing a trade right now. Always a reactive org, never a proactive one.

 

[94 Oil Drops]

Hopefully the Kane border crossing situation doesn't result in another long suspension. It would be great to get him here just in time for the Calgary game. We need a jackass to counter all their jackasses.

They have a lot of them!

 

[Canovin]

Nurse at 9.25M
Not retaining Keith
Smith multi-year extension

All cringey as f***. I'm glad I haven't been following the Oilers much this year

 

[McTonyBrar]

Nurse at 9.25M
Not retaining Keith
Smith multi-year extension

All cringey as f***. I'm glad I haven't been following the Oilers much this year

Dude Nurse was going to get around that regardless because of the Hamilton signing.

the rest are shit. Keith would’ve been good if there was retainment

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Dude Nurse was going to get around that regardless because of the Hamilton signing.

the rest are shit. Keith would’ve been good if there was retainment

If Nurse's play this year was any indication, no he would not have gotten that amount.

 

[CycloneSweep]

If Nurse's play this year was any indication, no he would not have gotten that amount.

If they would of waited this year to extend, he would of gotten 7.5-8. If he kept up his play from last year at most he would of gotten like 200k more?

 

[yukoner88]

Boobs.

That's the answer and everyone feels better for them

 

[McTonyBrar]

If Nurse's play this year was any indication, no he would not have gotten that amount.

Every player has been below average not just Nurse.

 

[NoDust33]

If they would of waited this year to extend, he would of gotten 7.5-8. If he kept up his play from last year at most he would of gotten like 200k more?

You may value his play at 7.5-8 but a dman like Nurse, in his prime, would get 9-9.5 in this market of dman for the '22 free agent class. I would wager Letang lindholm and Manson resign, and if Nurse hit free agency, it would be his market.

 

[McShogun99]

If Nurse went UFA at the end of this year then he’s getting 9.25 or more from another team while we add a #1D to our list that already includes a goalie, 3C, top 6 winger and defensive D.

Blame Chicago for his contract. They started the 9 million base for top pairing D by extending Jones. All other teams just followed the trend. Nurse should have got 8-8.5 but it’s not worth losing your top D and one of the team leaders over a million in cap.

 

[Darkwinter]

When is the trade deadline this year?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Every player has been below average not just Nurse.

And therein lies the danger of paying players based on career years and small sample sizes.

 

[BudBundy]

The Nurse mistake was made years ago when Chiarelli squandered so much cap space that they had to bridge Nurse. His existing contract led straight to the UFA cliff. Holland had to either pay up big, or it was open season on Nurse. Chiarelli is the gift that keeps giving and look no further than the Koskinen deal for further evidence.

I’m not saying Holland has been good handling cap space but I do have some sympathy for him on the Nurse deal.

 

[NoDust33]

And therein lies the danger of paying players based on career years and small sample sizes.

Oilers screwed up and should have signed nurse long term when they had a chance. It was the same philosophy of "wait and see" who nurse really was as a player that ultimately walked him essentially to free agency. However, lot of talk at the time he signed his bridge that he wouldn't be worth 6.5 million long term.

I don't know what your thoughts were at the time of the bridge deal signing. But it cant be argued voth ways. It can't be argued on one hand that you shouldn't pay players on small sample sizes and "career years" because that's what the oilers avoided doing...only nurse increased his role and level of play every subsequent year driving up his leverage for his contract.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Oilers screwed up and should have signed nurse long term when they had a chance. It was the same philosophy of "wait and see" who nurse really was as a player that ultimately walked him essentially to free agency. However, lot of talk at the time he signed his bridge that he wouldn't be worth 6.5 million long term.

I don't know what your thoughts were at the time of the bridge deal signing. But it cant be argued voth ways. It can't be argued on one hand that you shouldn't pay players on small sample sizes and "career years" because that's what the oilers avoided doing...only nurse increased his role and level of play every subsequent year driving up his leverage for his contract.

Holland panicked because of the Jones signing (which was absolutely stupid) and rather than take a patient approach with Nurse's extension (which funny enough he actually did with RNH), threw out a silly number and signed him when he still had an entire year to figure things out. Holland screwed the pooch on this one and while some will say it's better than losing him, he still had plenty of time to hammer out a reasonable deal for both parties and now we're stuck with this albatross for many, many years.

Given the way this year has gone I can't help but wonder what Nurse might've gotten at the TDL.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

When is the trade deadline this year?

It's late this year, near the end of March. I'm pretty sure it's the 25th.

 

[NoDust33]

Holland panicked because of the Jones signing (which was absolutely stupid) and rather than take a patient approach with Nurse's extension (which funny enough he actually did with RNH), threw out a silly number and signed him when he still had an entire year to figure things out. Holland screwed the pooch on this one and while some will say it's better than losing him, he still had plenty of time to hammer out a reasonable deal for both parties and now we're stuck with this albatross for many, many years.

Given the way this year has gone I can't help but wonder what Nurse might've gotten at the TDL.

Ok, I see your point. I'm not going to argue whether it would have been better to let nurse walk or trade him at the deadline than have him on this contract, because who knows.

I just disagree that the oilers would have been able to negotiate a better deal with him. Especially with how this seasons turned out...nurse probably could get a good offer from a better team with lower taxes where he doesn't have to deal with all the garbage that he does here.

At some point we had to end the blood letting on defence too, where we have seen 3 top 4 dmen either have their career ended or walk in sekera, klef, and Larsson. Add nurse to that list and that's a massive exodus of talent to have happen in a 4 year span and makes it all that much more difficult to recover from.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Ok, I see your point. I'm not going to argue whether it would have been better to let nurse walk or trade him at the deadline than have him on this contract, because who knows.

I just disagree that the oilers would have been able to negotiate a better deal with him. Especially with how this seasons turned out...nurse probably could get a good offer from a better team with lower taxes where he doesn't have to deal with all the garbage that he does here.

At some point we had to end the blood letting on defence too, where we have seen 3 top 4 dmen either have their career ended or walk in sekera, klef, and Larsson. Add nurse to that list and that's a massive exodus of talent to have happen in a 4 year span and makes it all that much more difficult to recover from.

I'm all for retaining Nurse, but panic signing him to a bloated extension was arguably the worst thing they could've done. If the Oilers had waited and signed him now or in the coming months there's no doubt in my mind he wouldn't make north of 9 million. We have $22.5 million of cap space tied up next year in a top four of Nurse, Keith, Ceci, and Barrie. Needless to say, that's not going to cut it.

 

[Field Marshal Phibun]

It's late this year, near the end of March. I'm pretty sure it's the 25th.

Monday, March 21.

 

[Aerchon]

Holland panicked because of the Jones signing (which was absolutely stupid) and rather than take a patient approach with Nurse's extension (which funny enough he actually did with RNH), threw out a silly number and signed him when he still had an entire year to figure things out. Holland screwed the pooch on this one and while some will say it's better than losing him, he still had plenty of time to hammer out a reasonable deal for both parties and now we're stuck with this albatross for many, many years.

Given the way this year has gone I can't help but wonder what Nurse might've gotten at the TDL.

Where Holland screwed up big was not signing him long term on his previous deal and instead deciding to bridge/walk him to UFA status. On top of that he "bridged/walked to UFA status" him at an extremely high rate. There were many good comparables that would have netting Nurse at the most 7 mill x 8 years.

It was the OEL contract at 8 mill that was signed that started the defenseman overpays. Its very easy for any defenseman putting up Nurses 5v5 points and playing his minutes to ask for more than OEL. Even factoring the McDavid effect Nurse gets over 8 the moment OEL signed. Jones and everyone elses just sealed Nurse getting 9+.

The big mistake that could have changed this franchise as not signing him long term and instead walking him to UFA status on a high bridge like contract. A GM losses all leverage doing so and truth be told I actually count Nurse at over 9 one of Hollands success stories. There was absolutely no reason for Nurse to stay with Edmonton after the ridiculous previous contract Holland gave him. With the market especially Nurse easily could have gone elsewhere for the same amount he is making now.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Where Holland screwed up big was not signing him long term on his previous deal and instead deciding to bridge/walk him to UFA status. On top of that he "bridged/walked to UFA status" him at an extremely high rate. There were many good comparables that would have netting Nurse at the most 7 mill x 8 years.

It was the OEL contract at 8 mill that was signed that started the defenseman overpays. Its very easy for any defenseman putting up Nurses 5v5 points and playing his minutes to ask for more than OEL. Even factoring the McDavid effect Nurse gets over 8 the moment OEL signed. Jones and everyone elses just sealed Nurse getting 9+.

The big mistake that could have changed this franchise as not signing him long term and instead walking him to UFA status on a high bridge like contract. A GM losses all leverage doing so and truth be told I actually count Nurse at over 9 one of Hollands success stories. There was absolutely no reason for Nurse to stay with Edmonton after the ridiculous previous contract Holland gave him. With the market especially Nurse easily could have gone elsewhere for the same amount he is making now.

Didn't Chia give him the bridge?

 

[McTonyBrar]

And therein lies the danger of paying players based on career years and small sample sizes.

Nurse isn't small sample size. Look at his last 4 years of play. When has he not been our best Dman?

 

[McShogun99]

I'm all for retaining Nurse, but panic signing him to a bloated extension was arguably the worst thing they could've done. If the Oilers had waited and signed him now or in the coming months there's no doubt in my mind he wouldn't make north of 9 million. We have $22.5 million of cap space tied up next year in a top four of Nurse, Keith, Ceci, and Barrie. Needless to say, that's not going to cut it.

Hows that a panic signing? They could have waited until July 1st/2022 and signed him for 10 million because they waited until the last minute. When you identify a core member of the team you try and get them signed as early as possible to take away the temptation of going UFA or getting offer sheets for RFAs. Nurse is probably the closest D in the league to what Pronger was. A tough, minute eating, top pairing D that can play any situation and make anyone he plays with look better then they actually are. You put Nurse on an Eastern team like Toronto or the Rangers and he wins a Norris or 2 during his career.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Nurse isn't small sample size. Look at his last 4 years of play. When has he not been our best Dman?

He has been. But he's definitely not a 9 million dollar d-man by any stretch. For comparison, Chiarelli signed Klefbom (who at the time was probably our best defenseman) to less than half of what Nurse is going to make.

Hows that a panic signing? They could have waited until July 1st/2022 and signed him for 10 million because they waited until the last minute. When you identify a core member of the team you try and get them signed as early as possible to take away the temptation of going UFA or getting offer sheets for RFAs. Nurse is probably the closest D in the league to what Pronger was. A tough, minute eating, top pairing D that can play any situation and make anyone he plays with look better then they actually are. You put Nurse on an Eastern team like Toronto or the Rangers and he wins a Norris or 2 during his career.

Or, like they did with RNH, they could've let the year play out and realized that his previous year was a career year and signed him to a more reasonable cap hit. Putting Nurse and Pronger in the same sentence is an extreme disservice to the latter. Nurse is fine, and yes he's the best Oiler defenseman, but he's not even top 10 in the league. Paying $22.5 for a top 4 of Nurse, Keith, Ceci, and Barrie is an immediate white flag for next year.