Rumor: Rumors & Proposals thread: Vatanen gone as well

[s7ark]

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D > C > W

Vatanen > Maroon

That isn't even arguable in my opinion. And for the Oilers:

D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything else (G, C, W)

Every team in the league knows the Oilers need D. We aren't competing until we get some legitimate D. Vatanen doesn't solve everything but he would help (any D especially RHD would help us)

Youd think Vatanen was like prime lidstrom or something geeze. Some "insider" speculates Murray would rather not deal pieces to Edmonton to help them ascend, so immediately that means all avenues to get either are closed? Murray just literally traded us a 6'5 PWF who scored 14 points in 16 games here. And then was also reportedly extremely close to another deal to send Vatanen here. But all of a sudden this inisders word is gospel?

Offer sheets should be treated as a last resort, they destroy relationships between GM's and they put a target on your back for reprisal offer sheets. 2nd question can we afford Jones at $7 million, he is tracking and progressing well, but at no point have I watched him and thought he was a complete stud d-man worthy of $7 million, just that he had the potential to reach that level. He could amount to something like Brad Stuart who was very good early with a lot of pedigree and was tracking very well into being a real stud d-man, gets traded and looks great early, but just slides downward & regresses from there.

Who said he's prime Lidstrom? Comprehension issues?

And maybe you are right, Vatanen can still be traded to Edm but what Stephens says makes logical sense. And he has connections and talks to Ana's GM. What connections do you have? No offense but I rather listen to what Stephens says than what you have to say.

I'm for taking him at 4 if we cant find the right team willing to give us anything to trade down. I'd prefer to trade down but if it's not there then make the pick and dont worry about missing out on the 2nd round pick we could have received to move back a few spots.

I think the situations are a little different regarding trading a forward who was losing his spot in the lineup and a defenseman who just led your backend in points to a division rival. Seeing Maroon have instant success doesn't help either but I agree it is all just speculation but there is a sense of logic to it.

I wouldn't D take a lot longer to develop than forwards. Stay at #4. D can take 3-5 years.

This honestly doesn't bother me, is there evidence of this happening even once?

I remember all of the bluster from Buffalo when the Oilers sheeted Vanek ("We'll remember this for the rest of our lives!!"), but at the end of the day Buffalo did squat. And I see no reason to believe that if Chiarelli called them up to talk trade that they would hang up the phone.

Only guys I can see being traded on that list is Trouba. If he is moved Chia better be all over it.

I could see Krug on the block, the team hasn't ever commited to him on a long-term deal, part of that was cap constraints, but I haven't heard much about him getting locked up long term. Boston also has been rumored to be interested in Yandle and Shattenkirk, landing either one of them could make him expendable.

Orlov I think is at a point that he will price himself out of Washington, cause I don't think they want to open up the piggybank for what is a 3rd pairing d-man on that team.

Given Stevens comments since he was hired by the Wild my suspicion is they will keep Dumba and move Brodin.

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[Paralyzer008]

Nolan Patrick or Timothy Liljegren?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Offer Sheet bomb on Lindholm

 

[Halibut]

Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
I wouldn't D take a lot longer to develop than forwards. Stay at #4. D can take 3-5 years.

So you dont mind not having a #1 defenceman in 3-5 years? Maybe we can trade Dubois or Tkachuk for one when they fall out of favour? Dont wait to long remember 23 is getting to be old age for the Oilers, after that value plummets.

 

[Raab]

A guy no one is talking about and who I think could be attained rather easily. Cody Franson, hasn't really progressed the way I thought he would. But he's still a half decent PPQB and could play on the 3rd pairing with Davidson.

 

[s7ark]

Offer Sheet bomb on Lindholm

Problem with this is we don't have our 2nd for 2017 as of now. Unless we can convince Boston to trade it back our offersheet options are limited.

A guy no one is talking about and who I think could be attained rather easily. Cody Franson, hasn't really progressed the way I thought he would. But he's still a half decent PPQB and could play on the 3rd pairing with Davidson.

Because he is god awful.

 

[Raab]

So you dont mind not having a #1 defenceman in 3-5 years? Maybe we can trade Dubois or Tkachuk for one when they fall out of favour? Dont wait to long remember 23 is getting to be old age for the Oilers, after that value plummets.

Yea it makes no sense. I mean even if Sergachev does take 3 years, you then have at minimum a top 4 offensive dman inserted into your lineup on a ELC. With what top 4 offensive dmen are getting paid, inserting a guy like Sergachev who's cost controlled for 3 years would be great after Mcdavids and Draisaitls ELC's are over. Could be the difference between us winning a few cups and only be playoff contenders.

 

[belair]

No Barrie and no Faulk make Pete Chiarelli something something...

 

[CaptainSexyPants]

Originally Posted by Digger12 View Post
This honestly doesn't bother me, is there evidence of this happening even once?

I remember all of the bluster from Buffalo when the Oilers sheeted Vanek ("We'll remember this for the rest of our lives!!"), but at the end of the day Buffalo did squat. And I see no reason to believe that if Chiarelli called them up to talk trade that they would hang up the phone.

2008 Bernier reprisal on Backes .

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

This honestly doesn't bother me, is there evidence of this happening even once?

I remember all of the bluster from Buffalo when the Oilers sheeted Vanek ("We'll remember this for the rest of our lives!!"), but at the end of the day Buffalo did squat. And I see no reason to believe that if Chiarelli called them up to talk trade that they would hang up the phone.

Van offer sheeted David Backes on July 1, 2008 and St. Louis offer sheeted Steve Bernier on July 8, 2008. That was a clear reprisal offer sheet and the dialogue around it at the time said as much.

Some GM's take it very personally as an attack when they get an offer sheet against their team, others just act like it is part of the business. Generally speaking GM's who send out offer sheet don't tend to stick around for very long after doing so, totally permissible by the rules, but it won't make you any friends. GM's hate it in general though, not just because they might lose a player from it, but the practice is inherently inflationary as you are only offer sheeting at price points you don't think the other team can or will match at and the more common the practice the more agents can cite they will petition other teams to submit offersheets for their client unless the team that holds the RFA's rights caves in to their demands.

 

[CornKicker]

Originally Posted by Burnt Biscuits View Post
Offer sheets should be treated as a last resort, they destroy relationships between GM's and they put a target on your back for reprisal offer sheets. 2nd question can we afford Jones at $7 million, he is tracking and progressing well, but at no point have I watched him and thought he was a complete stud d-man worthy of $7 million, just that he had the potential to reach that level. He could amount to something like Brad Stuart who was very good early with a lot of pedigree and was tracking very well into being a real stud d-man, gets traded and looks great early, but just slides downward & regresses from there.

yes except the fact that has actually never happened ever

 

[suddeninterest]

We need to be very careful with who we draft because theoretically this is our last high draft pick for the next 10+ years. If we don't draft a player capable of becoming a #1D, then we need to be okay with probably not getting one for a very long time unless we get really really lucky. If we draft a forward or trade it for someone who doesn't have 1D potential, I'd be praying every day that Klef or one of our current prospects develops into one. We don't need top line forwards, we have 5 of those already. Decent wingers can be acquired through trades of late firsts which we will be getting for a while. Top pairing D can't. I'd make a trade for Vatanen, sign another D, and swing again for a 1D in the draft, cause it's the only way we are getting one.

 

[s7ark]

No Barrie and no Faulk make Pete Chiarelli something something...

Barrie, Faulk and Hamonic all taken off the market. Rumours that Vatanen's asking price is nuts. Subban confirmed as not available and Petro/OEL as well. Pretty much all the semi realistic->fantasy options are gone.

It's starting to seem like the iffy UFA options might be the only plan. We might be stuck with a crummy D again next year unless one of our D prospects can take a big step forward.

 

[Raab]

Problem with this is we don't have our 2nd for 2017 as of now. Unless we can convince Boston to trade it back our offersheet options are limited.



Because he is god awful.

I don't see anyway that he's worse then Gryba or Pardy. Your not bringing him in to anchor your first pairing at ES. Your bringing him in for his booming shot and to QB the PP.

 

[Aceboogie]

Van offer sheeted David Backes on July 1, 2008 and St. Louis offer sheeted Steve Bernier on July 8, 2008. That was a clear reprisal offer sheet and the dialogue around it at the time said as much.

Some GM's take it very personally as an attack when they get an offer sheet against their team, others just act like it is part of the business. Generally speaking GM's who send out offer sheet don't tend to stick around for very long after doing so, totally permissible by the rules, but it won't make you any friends. GM's hate it in general though, not just because they might lose a player from it, but the practice is inherently inflationary as you are only offer sheeting at price points you don't think the other team can or will match at and the more common the practice the more agents can cite they will petition other teams to submit offersheets for their client unless the team that holds the RFA's rights caves in to their demands.

Yeah Ron Hextall sure seems to be sitting by himself at lunchtime because of his offersheet...

or im sure Chicago and San Jose never traded after Hjmarlsson offersheet..

Still waiting for Burke to offersheet us

 

[SometimesY]

Maybe we can go for someone who doesn't need protection in the expansion draft, but has already shown improvement since his draft. Stay away from the 'whales'. The Sanheim rumor makes some sense for us, except he is left (I think) and we need right.

Sort of Reinhart deals, but maybe the guy is further along in development. (I like Reinhart and think he is going to be a solid d getting better each year).

I don't like offersheets because picks have more value than they ever had before. Plus the more often they happen, the more common they become and we have some prime targets on our own club. Not saying gms would seek revenge, just getting comfortable with the option.

 

[Raab]

yes except the fact that has actually never happened ever

So you think Burke and Lowe are still buddies?

 

[CaptainSexyPants]

Yea it makes no sense. I mean even if Sergachev does take 3 years, you then have at minimum a top 4 offensive dman inserted into your lineup on a ELC. With what top 4 offensive dmen are getting paid, inserting a guy like Sergachev who's cost controlled for 3 years would be great after Mcdavids and Draisaitls ELC's are over. Could be the difference between us winning a few cups and only be playoff contenders.

That's only if he pans out. It's not just that these guys take longer to become full-time players (let alone impact players) - it's that they are so much tougher to predict, and you're a lot more likely to get it wrong than you are with a forward.

 

[Narnia]

So you dont mind not having a #1 defenceman in 3-5 years? Maybe we can trade Dubois or Tkachuk for one when they fall out of favour? Dont wait to long remember 23 is getting to be old age for the Oilers, after that value plummets.

Oilers need a #1 D now, not in 2020.

 

[s7ark]

I don't see anyway that he's worse then Gryba or Pardy. Your not bringing him in to anchor your first pairing at ES. Your bringing him in for his booming shot and to QB the PP.

Those guys don't cost 3M to play on the bottom pairing and/or sit in the PB

 

[40oz]

If Pulju drops to #4, what do you think Winnipeg would be willing to offer to get the two Finns?

Trouba + what?

 

[SometimesY]

So you dont mind not having a #1 defenceman in 3-5 years? Maybe we can trade Dubois or Tkachuk for one when they fall out of favour? Dont wait to long remember 23 is getting to be old age for the Oilers, after that value plummets.

K let's not assume the young d we have will stay stagnate. We were not expecting to see Oesterle or Davidson do so well this year. Klefbom was sorely missed when he was injured, Nurse and Reinhart needs some seasoning but they won't go from 0-100, they will be better each game. This year each of those young guys will have evolved in strength and experience.

 

[gqmixmaster]

Trouba and the Winnipeg 2nd round pick for the Oilers 4th overall pick

 

[Faelko]

If Pulju drops to #4, what do you think Winnipeg would be willing to offer to get the two Finns?

Trouba + what?

Interesting. They'd probably want to get rid of a winger to plug Pulj into.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Welp. Today's revelations have definitely thrown a wrench into Chiarelli's plan for the offseason (if they're true). I was hoping for at least one of the D that were being mentioned but now it's starting to look like none of them are available and it was just all smoke no fire. It kinda sucks that this sort of thing seems to happen every offseason. I hope Chiarelli can pull something off to make me at least slightly more hopeful for next season.