Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Road to the Draft June 28th and 29th

[Bryanbryoil]

So typically it seems as if big offseason trades usually get made around the draft because often times draft picks are involved and/or NTC's or NMC's are set to kick in on July 1st so teams look to move guys that they otherwise might not be able to in less than a week's time.

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[GOilers88]

There's also the possibility that Adin Hill is just a good goalie who never really got a chance to run with the ball.

His save percentage in the last 4 seasons has been: .918 on a bad Coyotes team, .913 again with the bad Coyotes, .906 on a bad Sharks team, and then .915 with the Knights this regular season.

He's had decent to OK numbers on bad teams in the past. Maybe this is just a sign of Vegas having smart management that finds a diamond in the rough (or along with Thompson, two diamonds in the rough).

Skinner had his chance in the playoffs to show he's as good as Adin Hill ... I would say he didn't do too well at that.

You keep trying to paint Skinner as some proven, not good enough goalie even though he's only played one season in the league. Nevermind that he posted numbers exactly the same as those that you just posted of Adin Hill, yet you want to speculate that somehow Vegas is just smart to have picked him up, and Edmonton seems to need to move on because Skinner will never be it. It's such a weird stance you're taking.

It's such a typical thing to see, where someone wants to take one extremely small sample size of a rookie player and use it as some sort of proof that the player just isn't good enough. Skinner had a good rookie year. He deserves the chance to build on it and grow from it.

Adin Hill played 27 games this year. Stuart Skinner played 50. He had a far bigger workload in front of a far less defensively minded team. Yes Hill has had a really good post season. But a lot of really good goalies had pretty bad ones too.

 

[Mr Kot]

You know Bryan, you don't need to use the avatar anymore.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You keep trying to paint Skinner as some proven, not good enough goalie even though he's only played one season in the league. Nevermind that he posted numbers exactly the same as those that you just posted of Adin Hill, yet you want to speculate that somehow Vegas is just smart to have picked him up, and Edmonton seems to need to move on because Skinner will never be it. It's such a weird stance you're taking.

It's such a typical thing to see, where someone wants to take one extremely small sample size of a rookie player and use it as some sort of proof that the player just isn't good enough. Skinner had a good rookie year. He deserves the chance to build on it and grow from it.

Adin Hill played 27 games this year. Stuart Skinner played 50. He had a far bigger workload in front of a far less defensively minded team. Yes Hill has had a really good post season. But a lot of really good goalies had pretty bad ones too.

The Adin Hill Magic Show reinforces how strong and deep bluelines aligned with strong own zone defending, systems and structure can overcome average goaltending. For the Oilers to get it done in the winning season, they have to clean up with their own zone defending - improve quality of defense corp with a final piece (quality veteran top RD); stronger, committed and connected d-zone play; and simplifying system that focuses on home plate defending with disciplined d-corp that doesn't chase out of position and minimizing the coverage switches between d and forward which exposes high quality scoring chances against and breakdowns.

This team is rolling with a platoon pairing of Skinner and Campbell. No miracle tender trade coming. So the learning from Vegas is much better own zone defending work is required to play and win in deep Cup playoff runs. It's been the message from Holland and coaching staffs going back to Tippett's day 1 on the job.

EDIT: It looks like you're replying to someone I can't see. Assume I haven't misconstrued your post in my reply.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

You know Bryan, you don't need to use the avatar anymore.

I was just thinking that this morning. Trying to figure out what my next one should be.

 

[Soundwave]

You keep trying to paint Skinner as some proven, not good enough goalie even though he's only played one season in the league. Nevermind that he posted numbers exactly the same as those that you just posted of Adin Hill, yet you want to speculate that somehow Vegas is just smart to have picked him up, and Edmonton seems to need to move on because Skinner will never be it. It's such a weird stance you're taking.

It's such a typical thing to see, where someone wants to take one extremely small sample size of a rookie player and use it as some sort of proof that the player just isn't good enough. Skinner had a good rookie year. He deserves the chance to build on it and grow from it.

Adin Hill played 27 games this year. Stuart Skinner played 50. He had a far bigger workload in front of a far less defensively minded team. Yes Hill has had a really good post season. But a lot of really good goalies had pretty bad ones too.

The problem with Skinner is generally for someone who gets not only one but two full playoff rounds to show their stuff is he got worse as the playoffs went along.

There wasn't any one game in the playoffs where at least you could point to a game where you're like "wow! Skinner was a monster tonight, really stole the game!".

The fact is that between Skinner and Campbell, they've basically had 4 playoff rounds between them, and they've been a combined sub .900 in 3/4 of those rounds (Campbell's 2 being with the Leafs).

That's not exactly encouraging. Just because it would be a nice feel good story for one of them to have a playoff run doesn't mean it's going to happen just off hoping and wishing it happens.

There's no guarantee either of these guys are even a Mike Smith tier goalie.

 

[Mr Kot]

I was just thinking that this morning. Trying to figure out what my next one should be.

 

[GOilers88]

The problem with Skinner is generally for someone who gets not only one but two full playoff rounds to show their stuff is he got worse as the playoffs went along.

There wasn't any one game in the playoffs where at least you could point to a game where you're like "wow! Skinner was a monster tonight, really stole the game!".

The fact is that between Skinner and Campbell, they've basically had 4 playoff rounds between them, and they've been a combined sub .900 in 3/4 of those rounds (Campbell's 2 being with the Leafs).

That's not exactly encouraging. Just because it would be a nice feel good story for one of them to have a playoff run doesn't mean it's going to happen just off hoping and wishing it happens.

There's no guarantee either of these guys are even a Mike Smith tier goalie.

I'm of the opinion Stu falling off as hard as he did was likely in part to being worn out. It's not easy for a rookie kid to step into a starters workload like that. He had the weight of the world on him this year because Campbell crumpled, and he delivered.

It's not his fault that Campbell didn't get any starts during the playoffs. But the kid showed good resiliency all year in being able to bounce back after a tough game. It seems strange that you just assume he's never going to be good enough because of two rounds of playoff hockey as a rook.

Would I take a Hellebuyck? Absolutely. But I don't think they get a legit upgrade without Campbell going the other way, so it seems highly unlikely. Stu showed much promise this year so its weird you don't think he has the talent, but Adin Hill could be some diamond in the rough that Vegas smartly took a chance on when they really didn't.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm of the opinion Stu falling off as hard as he did was likely in part to being worn out. It's not easy for a rookie kid to step into a starters workload like that. He had the weight of the world on him this year because Campbell crumpled, and he delivered.

It's not his fault that Campbell didn't get any starts during the playoffs. But the kid showed good resiliency all year in being able to bounce back after a tough game. It seems strange that you just assume he's never going to be good enough because of two rounds of playoff hockey as a rook.

Would I take a Hellebuyck? Absolutely. But I don't think they get a legit upgrade without Campbell going the other way, so it seems highly unlikely. Stu showed much promise this year so its weird you don't think he has the talent, but Adin Hill could be some diamond in the rough that Vegas smartly took a chance on when they really didn't.

If you have big game talent, you tend to show it at some point in the playoffs ... where is any real evidence that he's a big ticket goalie? Having a .914 in the regular season is OK, but it doesn't really scream this guy is a guaranteed top end goalie in this league.

Adin Hill had .915 in the regular season himself. The Oilers need to learn just because someone wears an Oiler jersey doesn't mean they are special or "bound to break out".

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

The problem with Skinner is generally for someone who gets not only one but two full playoff rounds to show their stuff is he got worse as the playoffs went along.

There wasn't any one game in the playoffs where at least you could point to a game where you're like "wow! Skinner was a monster tonight, really stole the game!".

The fact is that between Skinner and Campbell, they've basically had 4 playoff rounds between them, and they've been a combined sub .900 in 3/4 of those rounds (Campbell's 2 being with the Leafs).

That's not exactly encouraging. Just because it would be a nice feel good story for one of them to have a playoff run doesn't mean it's going to happen just off hoping and wishing it happens.

There's no guarantee either of these guys are even a Mike Smith tier goalie.

He was a rookie goaltender that played more games this season than he's ever played in his hockey career. He was overwhelmed and fatigued.
He'll be better next year.

 

[Soundwave]

He was a rookie goaltender that played more games this season than he's ever played in his hockey career. He was overwhelmed and fatigued.
He'll be better next year.

I mean says who? He could be worse or the same in the playoffs.

There's no magic guarantor that he gets better because some fans like that he has a cool mustache and a cool attitude.

This is a cruel league and survival of the fittest out here, every opponent especially in the playoffs is going to be looking eat Skinner alive, does he have the game, does he have the mentality, does he have the coaching (ahem Schwartz), does he have the defensive system in front of him?

The other question is do the Oilers even have the time here to entertain these questions to begin with? Because if the answer to any of the above is no, the cost probably is you just wasted another year of McDrai's prime needing to find that out.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Roy, Brodeur and Hasek are probably the three best goalies the league has seen in its history. Roy was the McDavid of goalies so no one in the league right now can hold a candle to him but Hellebyuck is the closest in my opinion.

In my opinion people have a natural tendency to over romanticize NA goalies, I think reasonable cases can be made that Saros, Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, and Shesterkin are better.

 

[McDoused]

I voted 1 trade but hoping for more.

We might end up waiving or buying out Yamamoto instead of trading him.

You have to think Holland is looking at making some kind of move but I just dont see it happening.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

If you have big game talent, you tend to show it at some point in the playoffs ... where is any real evidence that he's a big ticket goalie? Having a .914 in the regular season is OK, but it doesn't really scream this guy is a guaranteed top end goalie in this league.

Adin Hill had .915 in the regular season himself. The Oilers need to learn just because someone wears an Oiler jersey doesn't mean they are special or "bound to break out".

Hill's expected goals against this year was 62.87. He allowed 62 goals. He played exactly as well as his defence gave him.
Skinner allowed 133 goals against with an expected goals against of 139.75. He played better than the Oilers defence gave him.

Do you think its a coincidence that Brossoit is also playing better in Vegas than anywhere else he's played?

 

[Soundwave]

Hill's expected goals against this year was 62.87. He allowed 62 goals. He played exactly as well as his defence gave him.
Skinner allowed 133 goals against with an expected goals against of 139.75. He played better than the Oilers defence gave him.

Do you think its a coincidence that Brossoit is also playing better in Vegas than anywhere else he's played?

133 against 139.75 ... is that really that great?

Vegas can do whatever Vegas wants to do, they have by virtue of top end management a ton of roster depth, very good defence, etc. We don't have that luxury.

For us, we probably need an actual top end starter (a Hellebuyck type, or a guy who can do a lot of Bobrovsky has done for the Panthers) if we want to get to a 4th round and not just stop at round 2 or 3.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I mean says who? He could be worse or the same in the playoffs.

There's no magic guarantor that he gets better because some fans like that he has a cool mustache and a cool attitude.

This is a cruel league and survival of the fittest out here, every opponent especially in the playoffs is going to be looking eat Skinner alive, does he have the game, does he have the mentality, does he have the coaching (ahem Schwartz), does he have the defensive system in front of him?

The other question is do the Oilers even have the time here to entertain these questions to begin with? Because if the answer to any of the above is no, the cost probably is you just wasted another year of McDrai's prime needing to find that out.

You're unknowingly arguing against yourself now by proving how inconsistent goaltending is and how you won't be able to trust anyone whether it be Hill or Skinner to have a good year next year as success is not linear.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

For the trades I voted 3, I really don't think there will be anymore than one trade that effects the hockey team in the near term, but when Holland is low on picks he'll often trade down for more picks.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

133 against 139.75 ... is that really that great?

Vegas can do whatever Vegas wants to do, they have by virtue of top end management a ton of roster depth, very good defence, etc. We don't have that luxury.

For us, we probably need an actual top end starter (a Hellebuyck type, or a guy who can do a lot of Bobrovsky has done for the Panthers) if we want to get to a 4th round and not just stop at round 2 or 3.

I agree. A Hellebuyck or Saros would be fantastic. Would love a Jaccob Slavin while we're at it.

 

[Soundwave]

You're unknowingly arguing against yourself now by proving how inconsistent goaltending is and how you won't be able to trust anyone whether it be Hill or Skinner to have a good year next year as success is not linear.

I don't trust the tandem we have now to get the job done, and why should I? On what basis have they proved anything to have any trust?

Skinner and Campbell have played 4 playoff rounds between them, and lost 3/4 of them, neither of them winning a round past round 1, while posting sub.900 save percentage in 3/4 series' they played in.

On top of that, we had the worst starter (arguably) in the regular season (Campbell) and then had the worst starter in the playoffs through 2 rounds (Skinner). Talk about being a boat anchor to the team.

I mean I guess I should feel cool about that because Skinner has a cool mustache and because Bobrovsky woke up and has had a monster year that means we're due to have something similar happen to us too (or does it actually work like that? I don't think it does).

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Skinner was supposed to get about 30 starts based on Holland's comments on goaltending heading into the season. Instead he had 48 starts (and 50 appearances in the regular season) and 12 starts in the playoffs. So basically he had twice the workload expected of him this past season. Let's also not forget that he was a 1st time dad just prior to the postseason. I a far from ready to write him off as a future #1 goalie. That said, Campbell absolutely has to rebound so that he can either be a quality 1A or 1B next season so that whoever our starter is come the playoffs he is not run down.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Skinner was supposed to get about 30 starts based on Holland's comments on goaltending heading into the season. Instead he had 48 starts (and 50 appearances in the regular season) and 12 starts in the playoffs. So basically he had twice the workload expected of him this past season. Let's also not forget that he was a 1st time dad just prior to the postseason. I a far from ready to write him off as a future #1 goalie. That said, Campbell absolutely has to rebound so that he can either be a quality 1A or 1B next season so that whoever our starter is come the playoffs he is not run down.

Agreed on the goaltending. It would be amazing if the team could somehow make their defensive improvement this summer, to see how these guys react to a full season with Ekholm and another strong new dman on the roster.

 

[Soundwave]

Agreed on the goaltending. It would be amazing if the team could somehow make their defensive improvement this summer, to see how these guys react to a full season with Ekholm and another strong new dman on the roster.

Even with the Ekholm addition, the goals against in the last two playoffs were both bad ... 3.68 GA in the 2022 playoffs and 3.5 GA in the 2023 playoffs (both are the highest goals against in both playoff years for teams past round 1) ... is still way too high.

No team has won in the last 40+ years with a GA that high in the playoffs, not even in the run n' gun 1980s. You wouldn't be able to win even in the 1980s with a GA that high in the playoffs. That's a sobering thought.

A lot needs to change, but a goalie who can make a damn save in a critical situation is one of them.

 

[GOilers88]

If you have big game talent, you tend to show it at some point in the playoffs ... where is any real evidence that he's a big ticket goalie? Having a .914 in the regular season is OK, but it doesn't really scream this guy is a guaranteed top end goalie in this league.

Adin Hill had .915 in the regular season himself. The Oilers need to learn just because someone wears an Oiler jersey doesn't mean they are special or "bound to break out".

Look at Jake Oettinger. Almost identical season numbers to Skinner. Had a good playoffs last year and was sub .900 this year. Two decent seasons one good post season one poor post season. Would you go for Oettinger in Edmonton? Why is it crazy to think Skinner is incapable of having his good post season next year like Oettinger did and not statistically look almost identical over the same 2 season sample?

 

[Beerfish]

You keep trying to paint Skinner as some proven, not good enough goalie even though he's only played one season in the league. Nevermind that he posted numbers exactly the same as those that you just posted of Adin Hill, yet you want to speculate that somehow Vegas is just smart to have picked him up, and Edmonton seems to need to move on because Skinner will never be it. It's such a weird stance you're taking.

It's such a typical thing to see, where someone wants to take one extremely small sample size of a rookie player and use it as some sort of proof that the player just isn't good enough. Skinner had a good rookie year. He deserves the chance to build on it and grow from it.

Adin Hill played 27 games this year. Stuart Skinner played 50. He had a far bigger workload in front of a far less defensively minded team. Yes Hill has had a really good post season. But a lot of really good goalies had pretty bad ones too.

Do we have the luxury to wait around and maybe see if skinner can be better? No we do not. We are not some young developing team. We need to win now and a skinner/campbell duo next year is a disaster.

adin Hill is a medium level jag goalie...and he was vastly better than what we trotted out into the crease. We are not in the cup due to goaltending.

 

[belair]

Even with the Ekholm addition, the goals against in the last two playoffs were both bad ... 3.68 GA in the 2022 playoffs and 3.5 GA in the 2023 playoffs (both are the highest goals against in both playoff years for teams past round 1) ... is still way too high.

No team has won in the last 40+ years with a GA that high in the playoffs, not even in the run n' gun 1980s. You wouldn't be able to win even in the 1980s with a GA that high in the playoffs. That's a sobering thought.

A lot needs to change, but a goalie who can make a damn save in a critical situation is one of them.

Your arguments always go this way. This is what happened so this what will always happen. But you ignore it when it doesn't suit your narrative, like when you suggest trading everything for a goaltender like Carey Price, who had a pretty large track record of posting below average results. You're even ignoring Connor Hallebuyk's most recent playoff stats, but you're certain Skinner's tell the future of what we can expect from him.

And honestly it's all for none. You do realize we're not trading for a goaltender, right? It's literally the least likely position that's addressed in the offseason. 0%