Proposal: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Stauffer Already Throwing Cold Water On the Offseason

[CycloneSweep]

Why? Do you think having all those things means you're guaranteed to win?

I remember you telling me at the TDL when I was lamenting Holland's inactivity that just making the playoffs is worthwhile because once you're in, anything can happen. Well, that "anything" includes good teams losing to inferior teams. It happens basically every season. That's hockey, it's not a character contest.

Man oh man my dude.

I'd you have the exact same core and improve and change everything around them and the team still fails, that's not just bad luck

According to you teams shouldn't ever try or being in assets then cause it's just luck.

No there is nothing Guarenteed no matter how good your team is...except that this Leafs core will choke in Game 7. That's pretty much Guarenteed.

 

[Cloned]

Man oh man my dude.

I'd you have the exact same core and improve and change everything around them and the team still fails, that's not just bad luck

According to you teams shouldn't ever try or being in assets then cause it's just luck.

No there is nothing Guarenteed no matter how good your team is...except that this Leafs core will choke in Game 7. That's pretty much Guarenteed.

Death, taxes and the Leafs losing Game 7.

 

[Soundwave]

I think we should look at Dylan Strome for some combination of our 1st round pick.

I mean you never know, but what are the odds a 19 or 20th overall pick is as good as Strome? Maybe 5%? Strome I think has some untapped potential, with McDavid I think he could be a 20-25 goal, 50+ point guy and he can bring that into the lineup right away, not as a project that's 3-4 years off.

 

[nabob]

I said I made 2 or 3 posts partly blaming Campbell. The other ones were explaining that I wasn't completely blaming him and therefore don't actually count. Yeah, I'm all about the technicalities.

So you made three posts blaming Campbell for the Leafs losing and then another almost dozen in which you continued to blame him. Gotcha.
Only two of those count though as posts where you actually blamed him for the Leafs losing.

I’m glad we cleared this up.

it’s like a man explaining to a police officer that I only punched the other guy 10 more times just to show him that the first 3 times I punched him weren’t my hardest punches. Then insisting to the officer that he only punched the guy twice as the other 11 don’t really count.

Those darn technicalities lol.

cheers man.

 

[nabob]

I think we should look at Dylan Strome for some combination of our 1st round pick.

I mean you never know, but what are the odds a 19 or 20th overall pick is as good as Strome? Maybe 5%? Strome I think has some untapped potential, with McDavid I think he could be a 20-25 goal, 50+ point guy and he can bring that into the lineup right away, not as a project that's 3-4 years off.

I like this idea. Would probably make Connor happy too.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I think we should look at Dylan Strome for some combination of our 1st round pick.

I mean you never know, but what are the odds a 19 or 20th overall pick is as good as Strome? Maybe 5%? Strome I think has some untapped potential, with McDavid I think he could be a 20-25 goal, 50+ point guy and he can bring that into the lineup right away, not as a project that's 3-4 years off.

He could. He has had time and familiarity with McDavid. Just he is definitely not a center. Isn't physical or a good skater. He has some skill but he isn't a guy who is going to lay a big hit or keep up with McDavid in anyway.

That said a 1st would be an overpayment

 

[Little Fury]

Man oh man my dude.

I'd you have the exact same core and improve and change everything around them and the team still fails, that's not just bad luck

Why? Does changing things mean luck is no longer a factor in a short playoff series? Of course not, that's stupid.

According to you teams shouldn't ever try or being in assets then cause it's just luck.

Nope. Quite the opposite. You ice the best team you possibly can to give yourself the best chance to win, but that doesn't make you invincible or immune from bad bounces. If you think the Oilers deserved better than what they got against Winnipeg, then you intrinsically understand what I'm talking about even if you'd rather listen to stories about heart.

Why are there no dynasties anymore? Why do so many good teams with great players consistently fall short in the playoffs? I mean if all it takes is stars plus crazy good depth and good defense and goaltending, then why don't you see more teams winning two, three Cups in a row with that formula?

 

[CycloneSweep]

Why? Does changing things mean luck is no longer a factor in a short playoff series? Of course not, that's stupid.



Nope. Quite the opposite. You ice the best team you possibly can to give yourself the best chance to win, but that doesn't make you invincible or immune from bad bounces. If you think the Oilers deserved better than what they got against Winnipeg, then you intrinsically understand what I'm talking about even if you'd rather listen to stories about heart.

Why are there no dynasties anymore? Why do so many good teams with great players consistently fall short in the playoffs? I mean if all it takes is stars plus crazy good depth and good defense and goaltending, then why don't you see more teams winning two, three Cups in a row with that formula?

Nah if it's all luck why spend money.

Luck is a part of it, but so is how you play.

If you weren't just trying to be a contrarian and bend over to defend the damn Leafs, their STARS were not their best players. And when the going got tough they vanished.

Yeah, we lost but at least McDavid busted his ass till the end

 

[Little Fury]

Nah if it's all luck why spend money.

I'm getting kinda sick of trying to explain the difference between "luck/bounces/randomness is a big factor in the playoffs" and "luck is the only factor". I know you're not stupid and can see the difference.

Luck is a part of it, but so is how you play.

If you weren't just trying to be a contrarian and bend over to defend the damn Leafs, their STARS were not their best players. And when the going got tough they vanished.

And their depth guys like Spezza and Hyman stepped up but couldn't beat Price. C'est la guerre.

Yeah, we lost but at least McDavid busted his ass till the end

Maybe if he and Drai weren't ghosts in the first two games, they wouldn't have had to work so hard in the last two. Wow, narratives are fun!

 

[CycloneSweep]

I'm getting kinda sick of trying to explain the difference between "luck/bounces/randomness is a big factor in the playoffs" and "luck is the only factor". I know you're not stupid and can see the difference.



And their depth guys like Spezza and Hyman stepped up but couldn't beat Price. C'est la guerre.



Maybe if he and Drai weren't ghosts in the first two games, they wouldn't have had to work so hard in the last two. Wow, narratives are fun!

They depth guys did beat Price though? Spezza and Hyman scored 8 goals combined my dude.

I don't even think you watch hockey, you just sit and be a contrarian for the sake of it.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

Who says no to a super hypothetical Nuge for JT Miller swap? (Sign & Trade)

Id think Vancouver, but Im getting some pushback.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I know in some cases teams definitely do that in the regular season. I wonder if that would be the case to some degree for the Oilers this year, Toronto yes, as their two biggest stars didn’t even play hard, but at least McDavid and Drai put in the effort.

They definitely looked past the Blackhawks. While I think they took the Jets a bit more seriously, they didn't really put in the effort until they were down 2-0 and by that time it was too late.

 

[McJadeddog]

Then why should the Oilers spend anything fixing the team. If it's mostly dumb luck don't do anything

Nobody said its mostly dumb luck, but some outcomes are more luck based than others. The accepted percentage of outcomes that are defined more by luck that controllable outcomes within hockey tends to be quoted around 25-35% Why it’s so much harder to predict winners in hockey than basketball and Percentage Luck in Hockey, Explained for some further reading, there are others as well that I've read that I'm not going to waste a bunch of time digging up. There is actually a fair bit of research on the topic.

Whatever the % of outcomes you attribute to luck, whether you think its on the low end at 15-20%, or at the high end at 40-45%, its still a pretty large number for hockey. For every 10 series that are played in the playoffs, 1-2 of them on the low end will be determined primarily by the "luck" that happens in the series (bounces, deflections, shots hitting the cross bar, fluke goalie saves, flubbed shots, bouncing pucks, weird ref calls, etc etc). The reaction isn't "oh we are going to be beholden to luck for X% of the time, so why bother", but rather to just admit as fans that sometimes your team is going to lose when they should win, and vice versa. It's just part of the sport.

 

[McJadeddog]

The playoffs outside of the Canadian series have been great, the Bruins-Islanders game last night being the most recent case. It's your loss for missing out.

I've watched enough "playoff hockey" over the years to know what I like, and I don't like playoff hockey. You do, so great. To each their own I suppose.

 

[Little Fury]

They depth guys did beat Price though? Spezza and Hyman scored 8 goals combined my dude.

And if Hyman buries on of his like four five-bell chances yesterday, maybe the leafs win and no one is talking about "do they have what it takes?"

Which kinda proves that you can have good depth contributions, decent goaltending, outplay the other team and still lose because it's a game of inches more than it is heart or wanting it more or whatever.

I don't even think you watch hockey, you just sit and be a contrarian for the sake of it.

If you want stories with heroes and dastardly villains, read a book. Hockey isn't that.

 

[gordonhught]

If you want stories with heroes and dastardly villains, read a book. Hockey isn't that.

Stop being so paternalistic.

It is sports - people can feel how they want. If that means hating a rival team then so be it. Heros and villains are parts of sports whether you think it should be or not.

 

[Samus44]

so u want to take another small forward. Like that did good for us last series. Winnipeg eliminated our forwards. They ran 4 lines . Small guys were invisible

I think Marner is a better player and we need another offensive driver. I also think Jones leaves in a year. Marner likely figures it out, I thought he was the 3rd best player after McDrai in the entire division. Just my opinion.

 

[belair]

I think we should look at Dylan Strome for some combination of our 1st round pick.

I mean you never know, but what are the odds a 19 or 20th overall pick is as good as Strome? Maybe 5%? Strome I think has some untapped potential, with McDavid I think he could be a 20-25 goal, 50+ point guy and he can bring that into the lineup right away, not as a project that's 3-4 years off.

What are the odds a mid-round 1st matches Strome's production preceding his trade to Chicago? I'd say it's pretty good.

Strome to this point has just one season where he caught lightning in a bottle playing beside Patrick Kane and he's a year removed from having arbitration rights.

That's a bad gamble because you're banking on him leeching off of McDavid to earn himself a significant pay raise one year from now.

I'm not opposed to using the pick to acquire a forward, but Strome seems like a player who should be a buy-low target. Not someone you're throwing a 1st at.

 

[Samus44]

Thus the problem with NHL hockey IMO. The regular season and the playoffs are pretty much 2 different sports. One is hockey, the other is rugby. The league needs to decide on rules, and then call those rules the same during the regular season and the playoffs. The NHL is the only league that I am aware of where they have 2 completely different rulebooks.

That's putting it generously. I'd say the rules change from ref to ref way too much let alone the massive contrast between regular season and playoffs you rightly point out. Greatest game in the world but run by goons for goons.

 

[Oilers in NS]

I think Marner is a better player and we need another offensive driver. I also think Jones leaves in a year. Marner likely figures it out, I thought he was the 3rd best player after McDrai in the entire division. Just my opinion.

Just that salary kills me. What makes me mad is he held out for so much. When u look around the league, some players take less to win. MACKINNON, Crosby, Perfection line in Boston. Toronto is screwed

 

[Samus44]

Caps aren't moving Eller until the Kuzy situation gets solved one way or another. And even then I can't really see them moving him.

It's a fair point but I think you'd have to be one desperate GM to trade for Koknetsov. That kind of lifestyle catches up to a guy and I suspect the Caps are stuck with him unless they're willing to do something crazy. I could be wrong but I certainly wouldn't trade for that guy.

 

[Little Fury]

Stop being so paternalistic.

He started it, dad.

It is sports - people can feel how they want. If that means hating a rival team then so be it. Heros and villains are parts of sports whether you think it should be or not.

Fine but I don't want to hear anyone complain when McDavid and Drai have their character questioned next time the Oilers bow out early in the playoffs or if they continue to wallow in futility the way they have for the past half decade.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

They definitely looked past the Blackhawks. While I think they took the Jets a bit more seriously, they didn't really put in the effort until they were down 2-0 and by that time it was too late.

Which is why you fire Tippett this offseason.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Which is why you fire Tippett this offseason.

No. No no no no no.

No more coaching changes. Coaching is not the problem. Depth is the problem.

 

[Samus44]

Yeah I dont know. Bouchard definitely seems to have a stigma on this team. Maybe he has a work ethic issue but he looked good on the ice so who knows. Team might be making a mountain out of a mole hill with him, rather than just letting the guy play. At least they have Patrick Russell on the team. I heard that guy is a beast in the gym.

I don't think Bouchard has any stigma, I think they love him. The Oilers had 3 D ahead of him and they didn't get hurt much, it happens. Bouchard got world class coaching against world class players in this shortened season and if he did have work ethic issues they probably worked those out of him. Just because you don't get to see a player in games doesn't mean he can't be improving. I saw increased physicality and pace from him this season when he did play for example. Not every player should be developed in the same way and Bouchard's exceptional hockey IQ makes me think sitting isn't going to ruin him as much as learning what it takes to be an NHLer helps him. Playing against and training with the aforementioned Patrick Russell every damn day is going to do his compete level good I'd suspect. Having Nygard coming down on you with a head of steam is going to help you learn how to deal with faster players. The Oilers had a very deep taxi squad and I think they used it more in developing the guys on it than they got credit for.