Rumor: Rumors and Proposals Thread | Kubalik, MA Fleury, Debrusk?

[MessierII]

Cap aside, I don’t see how people think the Oilers lost anything of value in that trade. Having one of those 3 as the middle pair LD is terrifying

I agree. Ideally they could have got Keith in the 3-4 mil range but 2LD was a gaping hole last year we tried to patch at the deadline. Keith, while overpaid is a distinct upgrade.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Kane has a 29 team NTC. We know 2 teams that he will accept a trade to - Vegas and Winnipeg. He knows Winnipeg won’t trade for him (that’s why they are on the list). Don’t know who that 3rd team is.

Yeah, im willing to bet he would accept a trade anywhere if it meant he got a chance to play in the NHL again.

 

[belair]

Where are the top players that play with 4th liners and excel though? Every team puts good players in their top lines and doesn't just expect one player to carry everything.

Crosby saw his fair share of depth guys on his wings for years.

Is Puljujarvi a 4th liner? Yamamoto? Even Foegele for that matter who was unhappy with the lack of opportunity he was getting in Carolina. Throw in names like Kassian and Perlini who have history playing in the top six and there are options to stretch the offense until they make a deal.

 

[Oilhawks]

I agree. Ideally they could have got Keith in the 3-4 mil range but 2LD was a gaping hole last year we tried to patch at the deadline. Keith, while overpaid is a distinct upgrade.

It would have been nice to have a million or two for another upgrade (maybe bottom 6 or a veteran 3LD) but I’d rather have Keith than scramble for 2 D at the deadline (that is, if they are buying this year).

Keith’s cap is too high but that is really far down the list of issues right now

 

[Del Preston]

What is the rule if a player with term still on his contract retires (not go on LTIR but actually retires) but then unretires during the season? His previous contract is wiped out, and he has to sign a brand new one, correct?

I tried thinking of a player who did this in the cap era but haven't been able to come up with anyone. The closest was Mike Fisher who retired after his contract ended, and then the Predators brought him back in February of the following season.

 

[Soundwave]

The Oilers can't make the playoffs without a good tier starter.

It's really just that simple.

Average-to-below average goaltending = auto playoff miss with this group (and a lot of teams really).

They're not good enough defensively without a stud no.1 D.

Talbot was as much of a reason the Oilers made the playoffs in 16-17 as McDavid was and more than Draisaitl.

Smith winning a shit ton of games in 2020 is what turned the Oilers into a playoff paced team that year.

Last year the Oilers were a dismal 3-6 to start the year with no Smith, not making playoffs no way, then they had the best record in the league I believe the rest of the way in the regular season when Smith came back.

But the years they've had just average goaltending or less ... they've missed the playoffs every time.

McDavid, Draisaitl are not good enough to just lift a team with average goaltending into the playoffs. This team's confidence flows from its goalie, if the goalie is not going good, they grip their sticks too tight and then inevitably they start doing stupid things.

Every year with bad goaltending this happens like clockwork, and it's no different this season.

 

[CycloneSweep]

No, I don't. But I also don't see them abandoning the defensive responsibilities as frequently as they do now in an attempt to generate more offense.

You can't tell me that two of the best players in the world are unable to outmatch the majority of the lines they face at 5v5 without the support of the team's better support players.

Perlini is a placeholder on this roster. Him being there only shows you how much this roster needs the added depth. A third line center being the most prominent.

What exactly do you believe a goalie does if you don't believe those guys can carry their own lines? This team is paper thin if that's the case and they're not winning a damn thing until that depth improves.

Okay so they focus more defensively while having much worse linemates so that might even out the defensive side of it. But because their wingers aren’t as good they are producing less so it’s a net negative.

You say that Crosby “played with a ton of depth guys”. He has had at times but there was a chemistry there that clicked, like McDavid and Maroon. McDavid has no chemistry with anyone in our lineup than Draisaitl. Crosbys game is and was, ELITE grinder. His game actually meshed well with depth guys so it worked. Neither McDavid or Draisaitl play a game like that, almost nobody does. You give Ovechkin a depth guy or two and he probably struggles too. Just because they are great doesn’t mean they can just make whatever work.

Crosby is very unique in his style of game and ability to make depth guys just magically not bad.

Hell even Gretzky didn’t just get given depth and told to perform.

Our teams biggest issue isn’t scoring or forward depth. Our biggest issue is our defence is shoddy and our entire forward group is average at best defensively, AND we have bad goaltending. Spreading out our offensive players doesn’t make our defence not suck and our forwards better defensively. All it does is make McDrais lives harder dragging bottom 6 guys around the ice. Draisaitl already does that nightly with Yamamoto and you want to give him another?

The fact that you think the big solution to our teams problems is to not improve our biggest hole but go get more offensive forwards is just, hilarious.

I guess we could just wait a few years for McDrai to completely reinvent themselves to be Crosby but I mean, no?

 

[Soundwave]

Depth is fine but without a goalie this team just mentally cannot get itself over the hurdle of bad goaltending.

A few bad goals over the course of a few games and they basically just abandon any structure unless the opponent is willing to oblige them and let then run Harlem Globetrotters on the PP.

You can visibly see it, they just sulk when the goalie lets in a stinker and they're not riding a hot offensive wave.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Template for next year:

Holloway - McDavid - Puljujarvi
RNH - Draisaitl - Hyman
Foegele - McLeod - Yamamoto
Benson - Ryan - Sceviour

Nurse - X
Keith - Bouchard
Broberg - Ceci

Skinner
Smith/X

Dump Kassian, Barrie and find a defensive RD and backup/platoon goalie depending on Skinner’s performance this year. Could also dangle Yamamoto if you find a replacement 3RW.

 

[Soundwave]

Template for next year:

Holloway - McDavid - Puljujarvi
RNH - Draisaitl - Hyman
Foegele - McLeod - Yamamoto
Benson - Ryan - Sceviour

Nurse - X
Keith - Bouchard
Broberg - Ceci

Skinner
Smith/X

Dump Kassian, Barrie and find a defensive RD and backup/platoon goalie depending on Skinner’s performance this year. Could also dangle Yamamoto if you find a replacement 3RW.

Gonna be another "bet the season on implausible goaltending happening" ... what happens if Skinner has a sophomore slump or struggles a bit as young goalies tend to do?

Guess that season is a write off too, lol.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Template for next year:

Holloway - McDavid - Puljujarvi
RNH - Draisaitl - Hyman
Foegele - McLeod - Yamamoto
Benson - Ryan - Sceviour

Nurse - X
Keith - Bouchard
Broberg - Ceci

Skinner
Smith/X

Dump Kassian, Barrie and find a defensive RD and backup/platoon goalie depending on Skinner’s performance this year. Could also dangle Yamamoto if you find a replacement 3RW.

So pretty much a team that might be WC1 instead of WC2

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Gonna be another "bet the season on implausible goaltending happening" ... what happens if Skinner has a sophomore slump or struggles a bit as young goalies tend to do?

Guess that season is a write off too, lol.

I think there’s enough space in there for a starter too, if needed. Didn’t do the math on that one.

 

[belair]

Okay so they focus more defensively while having much worse linemates so that might even out the defensive side of it. But because their wingers aren’t as good they are producing less so it’s a net negative.

You say that Crosby “played with a ton of depth guys”. He has had at times but there was a chemistry there that clicked, like McDavid and Maroon. McDavid has no chemistry with anyone in our lineup than Draisaitl. Crosbys game is and was, ELITE grinder. His game actually meshed well with depth guys so it worked. Neither McDavid or Draisaitl play a game like that, almost nobody does. You give Ovechkin a depth guy or two and he probably struggles too. Just because they are great doesn’t mean they can just make whatever work.

Crosby is very unique in his style of game and ability to make depth guys just magically not bad.

Hell even Gretzky didn’t just get given depth and told to perform.

Our teams biggest issue isn’t scoring or forward depth. Our biggest issue is our defence is shoddy and our entire forward group is average at best defensively, AND we have bad goaltending. Spreading out our offensive players doesn’t make our defence not suck and our forwards better defensively. All it does is make McDrais lives harder dragging bottom 6 guys around the ice. Draisaitl already does that nightly with Yamamoto and you want to give him another?

The fact that you think the big solution to our teams problems is to not improve our biggest hole but go get more offensive forwards is just, hilarious.

I guess we could just wait a few years for McDrai to completely reinvent themselves to be Crosby but I mean, no?

Our team's biggest weakness is that their whole game plan is two guys trying to outscore what the rest of the team gives back. It's been the reason why they were bounced in back to back playoffs. They can't line match.

You don't know if Connor McDavid or Leon Draisaitl has chemistry with anyone on this roster because the current coach hasn't had the balls to change up the gameplan regardless of how clearly it's not working. He either plays the two of them together or apart. f***ing simple Simon shit.

We're not talking about burying either of those guys with depth players either. We're talking about running forward pairs in an attempt to stop the bleeding when the third line hits the ice. There's a pretty good chance that going from Hyman to Foegele doesn't turn McDavid's line into a net negative. Going from RNH to a guy like Perlini? Maybe it's time to go out and grab another forward.

Maybe that third line could thrive with only one of RNH or Hyman. But neither at this point doesn't make a f***ing lick of sense.

 

[Paralyzer008]

I don't think the Oilers skeleton is too far off, but where are they supposed to find the cap?

Hyman-McDavid-Puljujarvi
RNH-Draisaitl-BLANK
Foegele-BLANK-Yamamoto
Holloway-McLeod-Kassian

Nurse-Ceci
BLANK-Bouchard
Keith-Barrie

BLANK
Skinner

Okay so you can see where the issues lie and it's all with Ken Holland.

Keith, Barrie, Kassian all making too much money and are replaceable with Broberg, Lagesson, Sceviour, cheaper veterans etc. Giving Smith that extra year was just so dumb.

They really only need a 1G, a top four LHD, a 3C, and a top six RW, but have so many guys whose cap hits are bad that I have no idea how they're supposed to get there.

Is Holloway the 3C? I mean, maybe? He's missed so much time.

The saddest thing is they seemed to have only five holes last offseason and Holland only successfully plugged one in my eyes.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

So pretty much a team that might be WC1 instead of WC2

How much more change do you expect? We’re going to have to bring up Holloway at some point, the defense is mostly going to be as is (save Barrie), and Broberg will eventually get a shot (likely next year due to the cap situation).

the most important thing to address by then is goaltending and coaching.

our roster otherwise is mostly set in stone. In terms of forwards, Hyman / RNH and Puljujarvi if he re-signs aren’t going anywhere, which makes up 5 of our top 6. I doubt we have space for another top 6 forward, hence penciling Holloway beside McDavid, the best player in the world. Ideally you can get a 3C but McLeod should hopefully have progressed well enough by that point. Foegele and Yamo are still solid 3rd liners and the other spots are of marginal importance, if any.

Defense wise Nurse is staying an Oiler. As are Keith, Bouchard and Ceci. That leaves 2 more spots with one replacement and one likely going to Broberg.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Let’s look at fancy numbers and see who is failing this year on the expected goals %

Forwards
Puljujarvi 58.88
McDavid 57.74
Hyman 55.05
—————
Sceviour 49.88
Foegele 49.38
Ryan 49.04
Draisaitl 49.02
Kassian 48.45
McLeod 48.17
—————
Perlini 46.57
RNH 45.05
Yamamoto 44.79
Benson 43.07
Turris 42.81
Shore 41.40

Top group is doing good. Middle group is doing fine with some room for improvement, probably where they should be in the lineup at the moment. Bottom group are over their heads. 2 of them being on the second line is concerning.

Defence!
Lagesson 61.05
Nurse 56.01
Bouchard 54.46
Keith 51.30
—————-
Ceci 48.61
——————
Barrie 46.25
Broberg 45.04
Niemelainen 43.99
Koekkoek 43.83
Russell 42.42

Same as above. Top group is fine, Cecis numbers took a bit with rookies. Bottom group are bad/not NHL ready.

*Remember expected numbers have nothing to do with goaltending, our TEAM is getting outplayed constantly*
Let’s look at the ranges for Tampa to see where a great team should be.
Forwards 3 under 50% the rest 50-61
Defence 2 under 50% the rest 50-57%

So pretty much it’s acceptable to have a couple guys, usually not your regulars being under 50%, instead its most of our players.

 

[SwedishFire]

Template for next year:

Holloway - McDavid - Puljujarvi
RNH - Draisaitl - Hyman
Foegele - McLeod - Yamamoto
Benson - Ryan - Sceviour

Nurse - X
Keith - Bouchard
Broberg - Ceci

Skinner
Smith/X

Dump Kassian, Barrie and find a defensive RD and backup/platoon goalie depending on Skinner’s performance this year. Could also dangle Yamamoto if you find a replacement 3RW.

Interresting. I think next year go for
Out : Ryan, 4K, Peelini, Turris ofC, maybe Yam if trade happens, maybe Sceviour because Tippet.

In: new cheap goalie like Bernier, Picard,
Maybe just. Stallock maybe is going.
Another vet like D that moves the puck play the body. Another bottom 6 C, like McGinn.

Maybe trade : Barrie for another D.

Nurse - Vet D
Kieth - Ceci
Broberg - Bouchard

Hyman McDavid Pulj
Nuge Drai Yam/trade
Fogele MacLeod Holloway
Benson/Shore Vet C Sceviour/Kassian

 

[CycloneSweep]

How much more change do you expect? We’re going to have to bring up Holloway at some point, the defense is mostly going to be as is (save Barrie), and Broberg will eventually get a shot (likely next year due to the cap situation).

the most important thing to address by then is goaltending and coaching.

our roster otherwise is mostly set in stone. In terms of forwards, Hyman / RNH and Puljujarvi if he re-signs aren’t going anywhere, which makes up 5 of our top 6. I doubt we have space for another top 6 forward, hence penciling Holloway beside McDavid, the best player in the world. Ideally you can get a 3C but McLeod should hopefully have progressed well enough by that point. Foegele and Yamo are still solid 3rd liners and the other spots are of marginal importance, if any.

Defense wise Nurse is staying an Oiler. As are Keith, Bouchard and Ceci. That leaves 2 more spots with one replacement and one likely going to Broberg.

I mean, our team isn’t close to good enough as it is. I don’t expect a lot of change at all. Just know that our current roster sucks and we aren’t a few minor changes away

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Template for next year:

Holloway - McDavid - Puljujarvi
RNH - Draisaitl - Hyman
Foegele - McLeod - Yamamoto
Benson - Ryan - Sceviour

Nurse - X
Keith - Bouchard
Broberg - Ceci

Skinner
Smith/X

Dump Kassian, Barrie and find a defensive RD and backup/platoon goalie depending on Skinner’s performance this year. Could also dangle Yamamoto if you find a replacement 3RW.

Perfect.

Unproven goaltending, and a player who has never played a AHL or NHL game penciled onto the first line.

 

[Oilhawks]

I think there’s enough space in there for a starter too, if needed. Didn’t do the math on that one.

I think with Kassian and Barrie out, they could afford one as well. Depends on Pulju and Yams contract

 

[CycloneSweep]

RNHs extension is already terrible. There I said it. It didn’t even have to go a few years. Hyman too a little bit. Yamamoto also sucks. The 3 of them get force fed McDrai. Yamamoto and RNH have 10 points each, their center has 25. Foegele and Kassian have 9 and Hyman has 12.

Puljujarvi, Foegele and Kassian make a combined 7.25mill and have 32 points 5v5

RNH, Hyman and Yamamoto make a combined 11.2 mill and have 32 5v5 points.

Sam Gagner has as many 5v5 points as Yamamoto and RNH

Horrible waste of money

Man missing at least 2 top 6 wingers….again.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

I mean, our team isn’t close to good enough as it is. I don’t expect a lot of change at all. Just know that our current roster sucks and we aren’t a few minor changes away

Okay - you can blame Holland for that one. I'm just being realistic.

I also think our roster is better than they're currently showing.

Perfect.

Unproven goaltending, and a player who has never played a AHL or NHL game penciled onto the first line.

Penciled beside the best player in the world. Also, if you don't think Holloway is making the NHL next year, I'm not sure what to tell you.

We don't have space for both a starting goaltender (which we may need, in which case Skinner would be a backup and Smith probably on waivers) and a new top 6 player, even if we can somehow dump Kassian and Barrie for nothing.

Don't blame me lol. I only put Skinner at the top because I believe in him, but there's space for a starter there if needed.

Also, no NHL roster is "perfect". There's a cap.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Okay - you can blame Holland for that one. I'm just being realistic.

I also think our roster is better than they're currently showing.



Penciled beside the best player in the world. Also, if you don't think Holloway is making the NHL next year, I'm not sure what to tell you.

We don't have space for both a starting goaltender (which we may need, in which case Skinner would be a backup and Smith probably on waivers) and a new top 6 player, even if we can somehow dump Kassian and Barrie for nothing.

Don't blame me lol. I only put Skinner at the top because I believe in him, but there's space for a starter there if needed.

I disagree that this roster is better.

We have 2 top 6 wingers in Hyman and Pulju.
Yamamoto and RNH are terrible top6 guys for the 2nd straight year. Foegele and maybe now McLeod are legit third kind guys. Everyone else is 4th line or worse.

Nurse is a low end #1 defender. Ceci, Keith and Bouchard are all average #4 defenders, Lagesson a good #6, the rest are #7 defenders at best

Smith is an old broken backup, Koskinen is a below average backup. We have a bubble team on paper, we aren’t as bad as this lose streak but not as good as our win streak. We are, as good as our record. Barely over 0.500 fighting for a wildcard spot. That’s what this roster is on paper and in reality.

I think penciling in a guy who hasn’t played a hockey game and has been injured for 10 months into the NHL roster next year? Guy might not even play a hockey game this month. He is going to be massively behind and need at least a full year to bounce back. I don’t think you get how detrimental missing almost an entire year is.

 

[Oilhawks]

RNHs extension is already terrible. There I said it. It didn’t even have to go a few years. Hyman too a little bit. Yamamoto also sucks. The 3 of them get force fed McDrai. Yamamoto and RNH have 10 points each, their center has 25. Foegele and Kassian have 9 and Hyman has 12.

Puljujarvi, Foegele and Kassian make a combined 7.25mill and have 32 points 5v5

RNH, Hyman and Yamamoto make a combined 11.2 mill and have 32 5v5 points.

Sam Gagner has as many 5v5 points as Yamamoto and RNH

Horrible waste of money

Man missing at least 2 top 6 wingers….again.

They aren't being utilized well. RNH should be the 3C with primo special teams minutes. Tippett is force feeding the fans the DRY line as a troll-job at this point

x - McDavid - Pulju
x - Draisaitl - Hyman
Foegele - RNH - x
Benson - Ryan - x

Should be the forward template for pairings heading into next season. With good coaching and reasonable 1 and 2 LW's the top 6 will be fine. RNH can centre a 3rd line between two big wingers. He'll still get prime PP and PK opportunities, where he excels.

McLeod can either be the 3C or 2LW depending on chemistry. He could also be the 3LW with Foegele as the 3RW.

The 4th line could have Sceviour or some similar league min player on there. Holloway should be ready for one of the top 9 open wing spots. If he's not, they'll have to trade for a young, cost-controlled top 9 winger with some of the excess D prospects

 

[Oilhawks]

Okay - you can blame Holland for that one. I'm just being realistic.

I also think our roster is better than they're currently showing.



Penciled beside the best player in the world. Also, if you don't think Holloway is making the NHL next year, I'm not sure what to tell you.

We don't have space for both a starting goaltender (which we may need, in which case Skinner would be a backup and Smith probably on waivers) and a new top 6 player, even if we can somehow dump Kassian and Barrie for nothing.

Don't blame me lol. I only put Skinner at the top because I believe in him, but there's space for a starter there if needed.

Also, no NHL roster is "perfect". There's a cap.

100%. Next year was always going to be interesting, cap-wise. I'm cautiously optimistic that that lineup could end up being better, given the right coach.