Round 8: Top Manager Poll

[Havre]

Gent was a complete Black Swan.

Spurs wins that tie 99 out of 100 times the way the game at Wembley went. Doesn't really prove much in terms of Pochettino's ability (or lack of).

Poor argument.

He has taken far more points than any other manger over the last 2 years in England. With a team that has a net spend of about 0. I still haven't voted for him so I'm not arguing he is top 8, but lets not pretend that he hasn't achieved anything.

How much more is the squad worth now compared to the one he took over? I haven't looked at the numbers, but more than doubled (same story at Southampton)? Which other "smallish" team has improved as much as Spurs? Monaco is up there of course. Not Jardim's fault they now got stripped of their talent.

Glad to see Allegri is in front. For me the obvious choice for this round (should have gone earlier). The next one. Pochettino is starting to be a reasonable candidate.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Once again, it's all up to how you rate accolades vs current managerial ability. So far there has been a larger emphasis on accolades.

 

[Evilo]

Once again, it's all up to how you rate accolades vs current managerial ability. So far there has been a larger emphasis on accolades.

Really?
I rate Blanc and Jardim managerial abilities quite high. What makes Poch special compared to those two? Or Sampaoli? Or Emery?

 

[Baxterman]

Pochettino has no trophies and nothing resembling Klopp's track record at Dortmund. This doesn't mean Pochettino is bad, but don't think he deserves to be over Klopp yet.

I really love Poch but what are his achievements? trophies?

that is a moving list but at this moment I think anybody but Spurs fans would rate Poch over Klopp.

This may get into the the whole trophy debate that I have gotten into with other people in the real world which may take this off topic but I think the notion of "trophies" are pretty overrated. And by that I mean some of the lesser trophies I think get way overrated compared to a good finish (ie 2nd) in a competitive league.

I think last year Spurs clearly had the 2nd best season for a EPL team but I know some will try and argue Man U or even Arsenal did because of their "trophies." I would take 2nd a competitive season for the title over a Europa or FA Cup win 1000 times out of 1000.

So yes Poch doesn't have the trophies but I think the past two years have been damn impressive

As for Klopp. Yes Poch doesn't have a Bundesliga win from 5-6 wins ago (but he also doesn't have a relegation scare either). Those are impressvie accomplishments, although less than winning a competitive league like the EPL. But since they have been together in the EPL recently it isn't even close and not just in terms of the table standings but in terms of building the clubs. Klopp had a good little run at Dortmund but I think if people are ranking him top 6 he should have won something more than the Bundesliga and/or shown he can have the same level of success elsewhere.

I imagine with how Liverpool are always seen as the golden boys and other fans love to crap on Spurs that many would take Klopp over Poch but watching what each have done I can't see why.

 

[Evilo]

Klopp has BL wins over Bayern.
He has a CL final.
Saying those don't compare to an EPL win is not only a farce, but also wrong since Poch NEVER won the EPL.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Really?
I rate Blanc and Jardim managerial abilities quite high. What makes Poch special compared to those two? Or Sampaoli? Or Emery?

Just playing devils advocate. I'm not saying it to pump Poch's tires. His in-game management would make me not put him in the top ten in terms of current managerial ability either.

 

[cgf]

Guys, Sarri is better than Allegri every day of the weeks and twice on sunday!

Yeah, but he hasn't coached a team that's expected to win; and that is apparently the primary criteria in this voting. So analyzing his actual work as a coach doesn't matter

 

[Evilo]

Not a fan of Allegri.
But some here value taking a good team to 3rd in the standings higher than taking care of a bunch of stars (certainly a huge challenge) and dominate its league and reach the CL final, shutting down MSN in the process.

 

[Deficient Mode]

Allegri over Poch most likely, though Poch has more style.

I think once Sampaoli gets voted in (please vote for him now) I will go for Nagelsmann.

 

[Evilo]

So Blanc's achievements are too old for you.
And Jardim's are too recent.

Right?

 

[Deficient Mode]

What? I'm not really voting based on achievements.

 

[Evilo]

So you're voting on playing attractive offensive football

 

[Deficient Mode]

I already explained how I'm voting. We already had this exact same argument like five days ago.

 

[Evilo]

Yeah, bias.

 

[Gecklund]

Yeah, bias.

Isn't that how everyone's voting? Based on their biases?

 

[Evilo]

Since I voted Ancelotti, Guardiola, Simeone, Klopp, I think it's fair to say I haven't been too biased.

As I explained, mixing trophies, authority, play on the field, adaptability to different leagues, etc... gives a fairer look at those managers.
No trophies or nothing criteria (see ZZ, who's french and who I didn't vote for), nor "hipsters we don't care if you win as long as you're new and young" voting.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Now people are voting based solely on results?

As I said Poch is better than Sampa and Simeone.

 

[Evilo]

So totally better than Simeone
At least it's great to be so good and not have results. I mean, when was the last time Atletico lost to Gent in Europa League?
But hey, coaching is not about the results, is it?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

So totally better than Simeone
At least it's great to be so good and not have results. I mean, when was the last time Atletico lost to Gent in Europa League?
But hey, coaching is not about the results, is it?

Give Poch Atelti and no he wouldn't lose to Gent. He also wouldn't struggle to overtake minnows on a consistent basis.

nope, it's about results in the word I mentioned earlier context. I like alll 3 coaches and they all have their strengths and weakness but if anyone has followed their careers closely they'd see how has the least weakness.

 

[Evilo]

Poor Poch needs an Atletico roster to beat Gent. Spurs clearly isn't enough
Same with Leverkusen or Fiorentina. Such powerhouses compared to minnows Spurs.

Poor Poch...

 

[Savant]

Poor Poch needs an Atletico roster to beat Gent. Spurs clearly isn't enough
Same with Leverkusen or Fiorentina. Such powerhouses compared to minnows Spurs.

Poor Poch...

Fatality

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Poor Poch needs an Atletico roster to beat Gent. Spurs clearly isn't enough
Same with Leverkusen or Fiorentina. Such powerhouses compared to minnows Spurs.

Poor Poch...

What offensive player on the Spurs would crack Atleti's lineup? Kane maybe. Yet if they go head to head I know he's playing conservative trying not to lose.

Alderweild was an after thought under Simeone yet Poch has him as a staple in the best defensive line in the EPL.

Fatality

Y'all are impressed about anything.

 

[gary69]

Not a fan of Allegri.
But some here value taking a good team to 3rd in the standings higher than taking care of a bunch of stars (certainly a huge challenge) and dominate its league and reach the CL final, shutting down MSN in the process.

Yeah, it seems that way to me too. A lot of voters seem to put a lot of emphasis on pure coaching ability and tactics, while leaving out man management and handling players with big egos.

The challengers and pressures for the managers are quite different when in charge of an experienced group of top players who have already won it all before (say RM or Barca) compared to young and upcoming players from a traditionally less succesful teams (say Spurs or Dortmund).

That's why I don't dismiss what Zidane has done with Madrid. Certainly not many managers could have done the same, but plenty more managers could have created a lot of trouble towards and between those very same players.

 

[Evilo]

Totally. That's IMO Emery's biggest failure. He has no authority on his players and even his system had to be adpated because his players wanted to play Blanc's way.
Few managers can be respected by all players.

 

[Savant]

Closed