Round 2, Vote 5 (HOH Top Wingers)

[MXD]

over MSL?

Yep. Then MSL.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

2-way/defense rank?

Kurri
Joliat
Moore
?

Strictly defense (not physical play, leadership, boardwork, etc): Kurri first, then some combo of Joliat, Moore, and Bentley probably. Then Blake.

 

[seventieslord]

Yep. Then MSL.

Nah, I'd have MSL lower than that. He's got speed and some willingness, but he's not particularly good defensively.

 

[MXD]

Nah, I'd have MSL lower than that. He's got speed and some willingness, but he's not particularly good defensively.

I don't have any objection vs. Bentley. Call it a wash.
Iginla ? Well... That's a different story.

 

[seventieslord]

That sounds a lot like the guy you have as your lock #1 Denneny doesn't it?

Yes, a little bit, but there is much more evidence that Denneny had value as a playmaker, physical presence and some defensive value. Hull had little to none. Nor was he as good offensively.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Nah, I'd have MSL lower than that. He's got speed and some willingness, but he's not particularly good defensively.

I'm still amazed by St. Louis' 2003-04 when he was the league's plus-minus leader. Finishes 4 points out of a Selke nomination with the second-most 1st Place votes out of anybody (on a 5-3-1 ballot, he would have finished just behind 2nd place John Madden). It had nothing to do with defense though: his plus-minus was created by an abnormal amount of even-strength scoring from his line.

Check out some similar TGA/PPGA numbers from the surrounding years:

2001: 64/15 (-4)
2002: Injury
2003: 65/10 (+10)
2004: 65/14 (+35)
2006: 70/13 (-3)

Virtually nothing changed about his teams' defense with him on the ice from year to year. The difference between him being a barely-plus/barely-minus player and being a league leader and Selke vote-magnet was scoring a lot of points.

 

[Ursaguy]

Moore was 36th in my initial ranking. While my opinion of him has improved, his failure to do anything productive after age 30 still really bothers me. I'm rolling Denneny, Joliat, St. Louis as my first 3 for sure. Kurri and Hull belong next to me. Hull was a very one dimensional guy, don't get me wrong, but that was probably some of the most effective specialist work in hockey history. I don't have a huge problem with his lack of overall game based on how good he was at what he did. Moore probably fits in at 6 there. Not sure what the rest of my ballot has in store. Definitely not Busher Jackson.

 

[MXD]

Moore was 36th in my initial ranking. While my opinion of him has improved, his failure to do anything productive after age 30 still really bothers me.

Then I hope you had Pavel Bure really low as well...

 

[Canadiens1958]

Moore Age 37

Moore was 36th in my initial ranking. While my opinion of him has improved, his failure to do anything productive after age 30 still really bothers me. I'm rolling Denneny, Joliat, St. Louis as my first 3 for sure. Kurri and Hull belong next to me. Hull was a very one dimensional guy, don't get me wrong, but that was probably some of the most effective specialist work in hockey history. I don't have a huge problem with his lack of overall game based on how good he was at what he did. Moore probably fits in at 6 there. Not sure what the rest of my ballot has in store. Definitely not Busher Jackson.

Well Dickie Moore did lead the 1968 Blues in playoff scoring in 1968 at the age of 37, second overall:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/mooredi01.html

 

[seventieslord]

I'm still amazed by St. Louis' 2003-04 when he was the league's plus-minus leader. Finishes 4 points out of a Selke nomination with the second-most 1st Place votes out of anybody (on a 5-3-1 ballot, he would have finished just behind 2nd place John Madden). It had nothing to do with defense though: his plus-minus was created by an abnormal amount of even-strength scoring from his line.

Check out some similar TGA/PPGA numbers from the surrounding years:

2001: 64/15 (-4)
2002: Injury
2003: 65/10 (+10)
2004: 65/14 (+35)
2006: 70/13 (-3)

Virtually nothing changed about his teams' defense with him on the ice from year to year. The difference between him being a barely-plus/barely-minus player and being a league leader and Selke vote-magnet was scoring a lot of points.

Exactly.

 

[Ursaguy]

Then I hope you had Pavel Bure really low as well...

Bure led the league in goals 3 times (more peak seasons than Moore) and did so without a dynasty (I think that his 2001 season, scoring 59 goals without another player on his team getting 59 points, is one of the best ever from a pure offensive perspective). I had Bure over quite a few guys on the ballot in this round, including, I believe, the one dimensional scorer that I'm giving a vote to.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Bure led the league in goals 3 times (more peak seasons than Moore) and did so without a dynasty (I think that his 2001 season, scoring 59 goals without another player on his team getting 59 points, is one of the best ever from a pure offensive perspective). I had Bure over quite a few guys on the ballot in this round, including, I believe, the one dimensional scorer that I'm giving a vote to.

So did I.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Even though I voted Hull in the top 4, kinda hoping he's outside it and Bure is in next round, to get a real good comparison of the two.

Hoping Bure is eligible for voting next round regardless.

If I were to guess, I'd say Bure, Firsov, Phillips and a O6 era player are added next round (one of Schriner, Hextall, Drillon, Conacher, Dye).

 

[kmad]

Just wanted to leave a note. I'm working two jobs right now so I don't have the time to read the discussions and come up with informed rankings. I'll most likely be abstaining from voting from future rounds so as to not taint the vote.

 

[MXD]

Bure led the league in goals 3 times (more peak seasons than Moore) and did so without a dynasty (I think that his 2001 season, scoring 59 goals without another player on his team getting 59 points, is one of the best ever from a pure offensive perspective). I had Bure over quite a few guys on the ballot in this round, including, I believe, the one dimensional scorer that I'm giving a vote to.

Hahahahhahaah!!
What's good for one isn't for the other. I like that reasoning!

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Only 17 votes in so far...going to PM some of the voters from previous rounds and see if we can get a few more

 

[MXD]

Only 17 votes in so far...going to PM some of the voters from previous rounds and see if we can get a few more

I gather that it could influence the results at the top (order and number...)

 

[Say Hey Kid]

I apologize. I was wrong. Some hockey fans such as myself have an unhealthy obsession with the playoffs. Ted Williams, Ernie Banks, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Chris Mullin, John Stockton. None of them won a ring, but all of them could reasonably be considered top 10 at their position, so why not OV? I apologize, I was wrong, good luck with this great project, and Happy Halloween!

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I gather that it could influence the results at the top (order and number...)

Unsure about that, just better for the project if the same people are reading the discussion thread and voting each round.

 

[sr edler]

I had Bure over quite a few guys on the ballot in this round

So did I.

But guys, Bure didn't fight as well as Iginla...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

But guys, Bure didn't fight as well as Iginla...

Vote for them however you want, but to pretend fighting is the only thing Iginla is better at is just dishonest.

 

[MXD]

Unsure about that, just better for the project if the same people are reading the discussion thread and voting each round.

I concur.

 

[Pominville Knows]

I've had some medical issues but i should be back in the voting and discussion soon enough now.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I've had some medical issues but i should be back in the voting and discussion soon enough now.

Glad whatever issues you had seem to be getting better.