No hatred, just a realistic view, and one shared by the all-star voters who took the extremely rare step of barely giving Jagr any consideration despite his scoring totals in 2000-01.
Practically every other message in this thread you have incorporated a jab against Jagr into whoever/whatever is being discussed or presented.
Jagr outscores every winger in VsX but it should be noted that he wasn't as good a goalscorer. Even though in general on these boards when the guy is the "straw the stirs the drink", the playmaker, and primary puck carrier of a line (Jagr!) is seen as being pretty much as valuable.
Defense comes up he is the worst (and probably is one of the worst wingers being discussed on traditional defensive play) but lets not ignore the massive contributions he made to his underpowered teams as shown by his adjusted plus minus.
Richard has down seasons -- but they aren't as bad as Jagrs.
People are actively asking to discuss other players but the little side comments keep coming and bringing Jagr back into it.
Just because Jagr didn't get (what were imo) reputation all star nods like Richard appeared to doesn't mean his season was any worse.
Objectively, Jagr was better or at least in the same neighbourhood -- especially if you take into account a 6 team league vs. 30. Where there is a lot more competition for those All Star nods, obviously.
For sure they were not good seasons by his standards and definitely not what Washington was hoping for.. not that their team was any hell around him.. the story of his prime.
Also a view shared by Washington management who dumped him for basically nothing
I'm sure it was accepted by everyone involved that the fit wasn't good but you have no idea what Washington management was thinking unless you're sitting on some citations you haven't given us.
They were also definitely cutting salary in advance of the possible lockout/cap world.
If you can find any indication that Richard ever put himself over team, please do provide it.
Again, where is the evidence that Jagr did?
I spent a lot of time researching for his ATD bio about Washington:
The Washington Years
Initially good: Jagr was working hard & players and fans were excited to have him. They resign him to a long term deal.
The Free Lance-Star said:
...
Jagr, the NHL's top scorer four years running, makes his Capitals debut tonight at home against the New Jersey Devils.
The back to back Southeast Divison champions, who acquired Jagr in a bargain of a summer trade with Pittsburgh, are soaring on a
wave of confidence like never before.
"Every year our goal is to win the Stanley Cup," Nikolishin said. "Now it's more realistic."
The thing about Jagr that has surprised the Capitals the most the No. 1 answer from virtually every player and coach-- is his work ethic.
He's often still on the ice 30 minutes after practice. He's diligent about the care of his equipment. And he stunned Peter Bondra by heading straight to the gym after a home exhibition game last week.
"It surprises me how much he does extra," Bondra said. "He's already gone to the gym and he's thinking about the next game."
Even hardworking goaltender Olaf Kolzig might have met his match.
"He's usually one of the first guys on the ice, one of the last ones to leave," Kolzig said. "That's why he's one of the greatest players in the world. He works at it."
...
And while the Capitals are adjusting to Jagr, Jagr is adjusting to the Caps.
"I was playing with the same guys for the last five years," Jagr said. "I'm playing a different style. I like to have the puck all the time. Those guys play different. We have to practice more and more and more."
"Hopefully, we're going to get better and better. It's going to take time."
LA Times said:
Jaromir Jagr signed the richest contract in NHL history, then advanced the Washington Capitals' five-year plan to win the Stanley Cup by two years.
Jagr, the league's scoring leader for five of the last six seasons, signed an eight-year, $88-million contract Thursday. The first seven years are guaranteed at $77 million with an option year to follow that could keep Jagr in a Capital uniform into 2009.
"When I came here, I didn't know what to expect," said Jagr, who had played only with Pittsburgh in an 11-year career before the PEnguins traded him in July. "Then I heard the promise to win the Stanley Cup in five years."
He paused briefly, then added: "Maybe three years now."
...
Season 1 2001-2002
CNNSI said:
Jaromir Jagr didn't seem to have any fun at the All-Star Game. And he definitely isn't having any fun with the Washington Capitals.
"Am I happy that we are out of playoffs now? No," he said Saturday. "It is a disaster for me and a disaster for the team. I want it to change."
The seven-time All-Star, in his first season with Washington, has 15 goals and 25 assists. The Capitals are 12th in the Eastern Conference, seven points out of the eighth and final playoff spot.
Jagr's World team fell behind early in Saturday's NHL All-Star Game. He told ABC's Darren Pang it was nothing new.
"I'm getting used to it from Washington. Every time we step on the ice in Washington, [we] have minus right away. But we're going to come back," he said.
...
USA Today said:
The Washington Capitals fired coach Ron Wilson, who led the team to the 1998 Stanley Cup finals but hasn't won a playoff series since.
Wilson's dismissal Friday came a month after the Capitals, who were thought to be a sure bet for the playoffs after trading for Jaromir Jagr, finished ninth in the Eastern Conference — one spot away from a postseason berth — with a 36-33-11-2 record.
General manager George McPhee said the players started to "tune things out" after five years under Wilson.
"I didn't believe it that these things had to happen, but I believe it now," McPhee said, "that at some point the players need a new message."
The Capitals were hurt by injuries to several key players, including Jagr, and owner Ted Leonsis said at the end of the season he would not make a coaching change during the offseason.
...
Season 2 2002-2003
The Caps start off the first two months very poorly. Jagr and the Caps then resurge to make the playoffs.
Pittsburgh Post Gazette said:
The Washington Capitals had a magical season in 2001-02. They took a stable of world-class talent and a $56 million payroll and made a playoff berth disappear.
Pretty amazing stuff. A feat worthy of David Copperfield or Penn and Teller.
Or even the New York Rangers, the underachievers emeritus of the National Hockey League.
But unthinkable as it was for a team built around the likes of Jaromir Jagr, Sergei Gonchar, Peter Bondra and Olaf Kolzig to sit out the postseason, the Capitals began 2002-03 intent on proving that it had been no fluke. That they really were a bad team.
...
Cassidy's incessant tinkering with line combinations and defense pairings was counterproductive, preventing the development of any chemistry among the units, and the only thing that made the Capitals' five-on-five work palatable was that their special-teams play was worse.
After shaving $6 million or so from their payroll in the summer, the Capitals looked to be in a process of slicing perhaps a dozen points off their total for the season.
But, just as their season seemed to be on the verge of unraveling, the Capitals followed the disheartening loss in Atlanta with a 4-1 victory at Mellon Arena two nights later. That sparked a turnaround that has carried them four games over .500 and to the top of the Southeast Division as they head into their game against the Penguins tonight at the MCI Center.
...
Jagr has nine goals and 10 assists in his past 10 games. Gonchar has four goals and 11 assists in that same span.
...
Jagr was one of those slow starters this season, but he has overcome a sluggish beginning to reclaim his usual spot among the league's top scorers. He hurdled numerous players recently when he piled up 11 points in two games and has been performing at a rarefied level few others can reach.
...
Jagr was nowhere near his peak earlier in the season, and there actually was talk -- unfounded or otherwise -- that the Capitals were looking to trade him
...
Those tough times are disappearing into the mists of ancient history now, and there's not much chance Jagr will have a "For Sale" sign dangling from his neck when he steps onto the ice this evening.
..
2002-2003 Playoffs
The Caps and Jagr start off the series strong, winning the first two but then fall in four straight.
Jagr's wrist is apparently bothering him in this series. After being shut down he scores two goals and two assists in Game 2.
The Free Lance-Star said:
Jaromir Jagr played like he had something to prove to everyone.
A nonfactor in the opening game of the first-round playoff series between Washington and Tampa Bay, the NHL's highest paid player asserted himself from the start yesterday afternoon in the Capitals' 6-3 victory over the Lightning.
...
Jagr, meanwhile, didn't show any signs of being bothered by a sore right wrist after being limited by the Lightning to just one shot during Game 1 on Thursday night.
The Free Lance-Star said:
...
Washington failed to meet owner Ted Leonsis' goal of winning a playoff series, despite the huge investment he's made in Jaromir Jagr and other high-paid players.
It also hurt that the money-losing Capitals failed to sell out any of their three home games in the series.
...
"I have to really reconsider the kind of commitment and investment I'm making with this team," Leonsis said.
Season 3 and Trade to New York
Before the trade:
ESPN.com said:
Whether or not a trade between the New York Rangers and the Washington Capitals for Jaromir Jagr is on again or not, Jagr wants two things to be known:
One, he is not the source of the rumor. Jagr told ESPN.com he was unaware of the reports and he did not tell confidants that there is a deal in the works. "I don't talk to anyone about those things," Jagr said. "Besides, it's a management decision."
And, two, to paraphrase a line from the classic hockey movie "Slap Shot," he feels shame.
"The bad part about all of this is that I feel I've let people down," Jagr said, "especially the owner."
Jagr made his remarks before Wednesday's game at Buffalo, a game he left with a groin injury that coach Bruce Cassidy later said he didn't know when it happened.
Before that, however, Jagr said owner Ted Leonsis made a commitment to him in the form of his salary -- which has four years and $44 million remaining -- and that he was sorry it hasn't worked out.
"Of course I want to win," he said. "I don't want to be in this situation where we are the last (place) team in the National Hockey League. He (Leonsis) brought me here to help make things better and I kind of let him down. I'm sorry for that. He had faith in me."
The mea culpa's seemed genuine, but one has to believe that the Capitals have no recourse but to trade Jagr even if it does mean eating a substantial amount of his salary. He is no longer able or willing to carry the team entirely by himself and the Capitals, a stagnant hockey franchise in a city that has never truly embraced the sport, certainly can't afford to add talent around him.
...
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette said:
Jaromir Jagr was traded to the New York Rangers yesterday, capping more than six months of off and on negotiations that brought to and end a disappointing 2 1/2 year stay with the Washington Capitals.
Jagr was traded for forward Anson Carter, but most of the negotiations centered on how much of Jagr's $11 million-per-year contract the Capitals would continue to pay as the cost-conscious NHL heads toward a possible lockout next seasons.
"This trade is a good one in that it moves the largest player contract in the NHL to a team that can absorb it, and it provides us with options as we seek to improve our team," Capitals owner Ted Leonsis said.
...
Leonsis said he had to move Jagr because of the "new economic reality" the league is facing with the expected lockout and the possible salary cap that could follow.
"With our current payroll, our ability to improve was hindered as well as our flexibility to plan for the future as we move toward a possible new NHL business model, " Leonsis said.
Jagr has not provided the payoff expected when the Capitals acquired him from Pittsburgh in 2001...
...
Attendance has sagged for a franchise that was already losing about $20 million per year.
NYTIMES said:
...
Washington recently traded Jaromir Jagr to the Rangers. Jagr is tied for 11th in scoring with 53 points. Regarding Jagr's disappointing play in Washington, Lang said:
''They put him in a situation that sort of could not work out. You can't put a player like that on a team like Washington and want him to play a defensive system. He's been winning scoring races and titles and all that because he played loose hockey and had a good support cast. They didn't really give him the cast.''
The Washington Times said:
Jaromir Jagr laughs nervously as he recalls his life from 2001 to 2004 with the Washington Capitals.
“The part I was playing there I would rather forget,” he said. “I wasn’t very good.”
You don’t have to look too far to find people who agree, from ownership through the fan base. The expectations for Jagr coming to Washington in 2001 were high. He had just wrapped up four straight seasons leading the NHL in scoring, piling up the Art Ross Trophies with the Pittsburgh Penguins. But his point production dropped from 121 his last season in Pittsburgh to 79 and then 77 in two full season with the Capitals.
...
“Maybe I didn’t play the way I should play,” he said. “Probably [the] managers or the owners, they were hoping when they got me we were going to win the Cup — at least get a little farther in the playoffs, and it just didn’t happen.”
Now, I'm not saying Jagr is better than any of Hull or Richard.. I think these three are clearly in the 2-4 range and there are cases for them to be in any order.
') continue to pick the All-Star teams. This is no rap at Gordie Howe, who is a great young hockey player coming up. But the guys who picked him did so strictly on his scoring record. He was on a powerful line with a frontrunning club. Under the same conditions, there is no telling how many goals The Rocket might have scored. One of Richard's admirers engaged in the debate in the lobby a few moments ago declared he would have racked up 75 if he'd changed places with Howe. [...]
