"Rotten Core"

[Guerzy]

For me the point of changing the coach is NOT to 'enable losers' instead it is the opposite: To hold them accountable.

I never expect a coaching change to bring a cup to our front door, but when I've watched 3 years of the very same mistakes that you just can't make on this team... enough is enough. Bottom line: repeating the same mistakes, expecting different results is insanity.

Yep, certainly one way of looking at it. When a coach is fired, it shifts all of the onus directly, 100% to the players. It signals changes have been made and more are/could be coming. Now it is time for them (the players) to perform, and if not, players will be moved. It is a game of moving parts, trial and error. You never know truly what will work until you begin making changes and assessing.

This is just the lay of the land in the NHL, how often have we heard this same song and dance after a coach is fired? pretty well every time.

Now, of course trades can be made before coaches are fired, that also happens all the time.

Nothing is a "fact" here, we do not know and will not know what may work until we begin making changes, be it roster and player personnel or coaching personnel. Is this strictly a players related problem? is this strictly a Noel related problem? is this a problem of both, players and coach? time will tell, but in order to ever find out, we'll need to make the necessary changes and assess, then we'll know.

 

[Analyst365]

Nope. In this case firing the coach simply enables a bunch of losers. A coaching change is cosmetic. A new coach isn't going to turn a bunch of players better served to be playing in the East suddenly into a bunch of conscientious guys able to focus on the details (read as suited to play in the West). Their problems are structural in nature, not cosmetic. The team sucks, the roster isn't good enough relative to their competition in the West, period. It is a roster comprised of questionable goal-tending backed by a weak defense and not enough forwards.

Stick out the season with Noel and make these players wear their record. They are what they are. That is on the GM, not the coach.

And here I was thinking I was all alone for not focusing all our problems on Noel ...

 

[KCjetsfan]

The roster may or may not be incapable of performing better. I don't buy they argument that there is a systemic amount of 'quit' in the players.

One thing that may change with a coaching change is perhaps we'll find one who is able to better play to the strengths of the roster we have, and may also have a clean slate without 'favorites', and where everyone has to prove they should be on the ice or on a certain line.

I may very well be wrong, but my contention is that part of our failure this year is due to coaching choices, and playing a system our current roster is not suited to do so very successfully. (and pavs of course)

 

[Romang67]

Did any of those teams have a starting goalie that allows at least one weak goal per game on average? How many of those teams iced the weird mix of D that is on display here every game? How many of those teams have virtually nothing in their bottom six forward group?

Your comment ignores the extenuating circumstance of the Jets weak-ass roster.

Steve Mason and Philadelphia's defense are both notorious for those things. Bishop and the Tampa Bay defense were a backup and a defense notorious for being bad before this season. Colorado is a bit of an outlier, but their defense was also awful before Roy.

No, the Jets roster is (almost certainly) not good enough, but that doesn't excuse some of the idiotic decisions made by our coach that makes the team worse. Seemingly bad rosters have made big improvements under a new coach. What do we have to lose by cutting Noel? What has he done to get the benefit of the doubt?

For the record, I don't really care if Noel stays the season out, this season is just about seeing players improve individually for me at this point. I don't even really care if some roster players are shipped out with him.

I just don't see why people would say that he deserves some better players, or that we have to get rid of some players because we get rid of a mediocre coach and take in a new one. There is a risk that we may miss some of the players we ship out. I see the risk of us missing Noel behind the bench as much MUCH smaller.

 

[Gump Hasek]

I agree, there needs to be more accountability.

Problem I see is who replaces a benched Byfuglien, Ladd, Little.... etc etc etc.

We all complain this team doesn't have enough talent and enough depth.

So what is the coach supposed to do?

The answer to your question, King, is that you fire the coach in the off-season and in the meantime move out the problem players to give a new coach a clean slate to work from.

Byfuglien & Noel represent the easy targets for the mob unwilling to admit that the team on the whole just isn't deep enough. That is a structural problem that will only be solved over time. What can be solved right now is to remove the players that are either unwilling or unable to get it done on a nightly basis.

 

[KCjetsfan]

I agree, there needs to be more accountability.

Problem I see is who replaces a benched Byfuglien, Ladd, Little.... etc etc etc.

We all complain this team doesn't have enough talent and enough depth.

So what is the coach supposed to do?

There needs to be more accountability between the players.
One of the so called leaders needs to stand up and start pointing fingers.

I'm not sure how much I really like what I'm going to say but, at this point it's clear the season is lost. But we also have some fringe NHL/AHL players who are not getting younger (O'Dell, Cormier etc). Perhaps we should use the rest of this year to do a bit more of an evaluation of these types of players. I'm not advocating a tank, but let's figure out who is not here for the long haul and start weeding that out.

Frankly that can be done with or without Noel. I'm at the point where I don't really care if he's relieved of his duties today or at the end of year. But if we keep him, I really think pressure should be placed to make some different personnel decisons.

 

[King Woodballs]

The answer to your question, King, is that you fire the coach in the off-season and in the meantime move out the problem players to give a new coach a clean slate to work from.

Byfuglien & Noel represent the easy targets for the mob unwilling to admit that the team on the whole just isn't deep enough. That is a structural problem that will only be solved over time. What can be solved right now is to remove the players that are either unwilling or unable to get it done on a nightly basis.

Totally.
There needs to be some serious player movement IMO, but I also don't want to see a trade for the sake of a trade.
That just leads to the team not getting great or full value for the player(s) being traded.

Around draft time I personally feel would be best.

As for the coach, he can go now, or in the offseason. At this point that change I feel will really not do a hell of a lot.

Other than blowing out some flames from the end of the mobs pitchforks.

 

[King Woodballs]

I'm not sure how much I really like what I'm going to say but, at this point it's clear the season is lost. But we also have some fringe NHL/AHL players who are not getting younger (O'Dell, Cormier etc). Perhaps we should use the rest of this year to do a bit more of an evaluation of these types of players. I'm not advocating a tank, but let's figure out who is not here for the long haul and start weeding that out.

Frankly that can be done with or without Noel. I'm at the point where I don't really care if he's relieved of his duties today or at the end of year. But if we keep him, I really think pressure should be placed to make some different personnel decisons.

I can get behind what you are saying.
Use the remainder of the season, because I personally think it is lost, to trial O'dell, Lowry, etc... Even call up redmond and get him back into NHL games (even though I think he should have been here all year... dam you waiver exemption status!)
You are right, you need to figure out what you have at some point.

 

[Darth Handsome*]

If anything, I'm of the opinion that it would be beneficial in the long run to start punishing a lack of effort & rewarding hard work regardless of who you are. Selective benching isn't exactly helping the situation.
Besides, I think most of us would rather watch someone come up from St Johns & bust his hump than watch LLW float around all game. We're going to lose anyway.

 

[winterpeg]

I think there is some sense in shipping the coach out now if he is losing the players. I don't know that it'd "save" this season or be any better for it, but if Noel has lost the players, is frustrated, and has virtually given up, another half season of that might be bad for the team in the long term. Having someone come in and try to right the ship with a different coaching philosophy, even if it doesn't work, might be better in the long term than the team feeling like a sinking ship for half a season. Maybe they gain nothing and lose nothing. Maybe they make a late season push and don't make the playoffs, but they feel like they've started to get it figured out.

If they're going to spin their tires for the rest of the season, they can at least try letting someone else drive.

 

[King Woodballs]

Just found this.
Since there are 3 Buff threads I will put it here.

Joe Pascucci ‏@Pascucci015 45s

Dustin Byfuglien wearing white jersey for practice. Does that mean the Jets plan to play him as a forward ?

 

[tbcwpg]

A coaching change is two parts. A lot of people have the "Fire Noel" part of it down, but not the "bring a new guy in" part. When you get rid of a coach, it's not simply just putting someone in there, it's putting the right guy in there. None of our assistants are experienced at head coaching at a pro level (Vincent was a QMJHL head coach), and McCambridge is probably not ready to be made head coach here even on an interim basis. I think waiting until the end of the year, especially with the state of the team right now, is more prudent.

Changing one thing here won't put the team into the playoffs, though. Coaching is the easiest to change, followed by goaltending. The players need to hold themselves accountable as well.

 

[KCjetsfan]

Just found this.
Since there are 3 Buff threads I will put it here.

not a fan of this idea.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

if Buff plays wing I'm gonna laugh til my ribs hurt

 

[cheswick]

if Buff plays wing I'm gonna laugh til my ribs hurt

Care to explain why?

 

[Guerzy]

Byfuglien at forward again? interesting...

 

[meedle]

I really hope he plays on the 3rd or 4th line. No way I would want him near Scheif.

 

[King Woodballs]

Talk is maybe buff in a fwd jersey because there are 3 fwd's missing practice today.

Who knows at this point

 

[Darth Handsome*]

Play him with jokinen & Setoguchi. 15 mins or so a game. It can't hurt at this point.

 

[King Woodballs]

Play him with jokinen & Setoguchi. 15 mins or so a game. It can't hurt at this point.

o'dell is on a line with them at practice today

 

[CaptainChef]

Those never work long term....but he should prob still do it...

Definitely need to call a closed door meeting of players. There are undertonings of discontent shown by several players (heck they've basically came right out & said as much) yet this discontent is being allowed to fester wayyyyyyyy to long. Ladd is being called out because he can't seem to get these factions on board. I'm sure Ladd is not really comfortable in that role (he'd rather lead by example) but he's not leading with anything these days.

 

[hockeyarena]

Time for the captain to call a players only meeting and do his job as a captain.

Ladd: "Guys this is unacceptable, we need to step up our effort on and off the ice."
"But Laddy it's wing night at Earl's!"
"But Laddy I won't have time to design my 12 thousand dollar suit!"
"But Laddy all I can think about is my 3 million dollar cottage!"
"But Laddy I need to go pickup my chewing tobacco."
"But Laddy I'm out for 2 months with a sprained duodenum."
Ladd: "Damn, you guys are right. When does the carpool to Greenroom leave?"

 

[Positive]

Anyone have the game PVR'ed and can break down Gooch's play in the first period? I'm curious as to the things he did (or didn't do) to get him benched for the next two.

 

[cbcwpg]

Anyone have the game PVR'ed and can break down Gooch's play in the first period? I'm curious as to the things he did (or didn't do) to get him benched for the next two.

Just saying... does it really matter? Noel has shown consistently he only benches rookies or guys making less than him and never the players that need to sit the pine (or hand out popcorn in the press box ) for a while.

Any coward can bench a 4th liner for making a mistake.

 

[cheswick]

Just saying... does it really matter? Noel has shown consistently he only benches rookies or guys making less than him and never the players that need to sit the pine (or hand out popcorn in the press box ) for a while.

Any coward can bench a 4th liner for making a mistake.

Which category does Setoguchi fall into exactly? He's not a 4th liner, young, or on a cheap contract.