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Roster speculation 16-17 part 3

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La Cosa Nostra

La Cosa Nostra

Caporegime
Jun 25, 2009
14,075
2,336
Paxon said:
Kane isn't anything special. He's not a legit 1st line player. Meanwhile, Tanev is a top-pairing player. On top of that, Tanev is under contract for three more seasons while Kane is under contract for only one more season. Tanev has not been accused of assaulting women. Ask any neutral party and they will tell you that Tanev holds more trade value than Kane. That doesn't mean you should want to trade Kane+ for Tanev, but it does mean statements like "trading Kane for Tanev straight up would be a complete joke" have little merit. This team has a surplus of young wingers, giant holes on defense, and Kane is likely not going to be here after next season. Where exactly is the punchline to this complete joke?

Your post is very repetitive of your other posts while not bothering to address any of the points others have made. Why respond if you aren't going to actually respond?
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Kane is absolutely a first line player and a top 10-15 LWer. He is 25th in goals per game amongst all players since 2011 and there are only 7 LWers with a better gpg average (and one of them is Ilya Kovalchuk). So if Tanev is a top pairing dman then Evander Kane is a LW1. Which is the truth. Tanev is a solid #2 and Kane is a LW1 who is one of the most complete LWers in the game. To insinuate there are 30 LWers better then Kane overall is just patently false.

Kane isn't anything special though is in the top 6 amongst active NHLers in goals per game at his position the last 6 seasons, is an elite forechecker, has elite speed, one of the most physical players in the game, is a good PKer and can fight but yeah he's nothing special :laugh:
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fiend540

Registered User
Sep 9, 2011
304
1
La Cosa Nostra said:
Kane is absolutely a first line player and a top 10-15 LWer. He is 25th in goals per game amongst all players since 2011 and there are only 7 LWers with a better gpg average (and one of them is Ilya Kovalchuk). So if Tanev is a top pairing dman then Evander Kane is a LW1. Which is the truth. Tanev is a solid #2 and Kane is a LW1 who is one of the most complete LWers in the game. To insinuate there are 30 LWers better then Kane overall is just patently false.

Kane isn't anything special though is in the top 6 amongst active NHLers in goals per game at his position the last 6 seasons, is an elite forechecker, has elite speed, one of the most physical players in the game, is a good PKer and can fight but yeah he's nothing special :laugh:
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Remember like 6 weeks ago when you were calling Kane a bum that we should offload for whatever we can?
 
Paxon

Paxon

202* Stanley Cup Champions
Jul 13, 2003
29,005
5,177
Rochester, NY
La Cosa Nostra said:
Kane is absolutely a first line player and a top 10-15 LWer. He is 25th in goals per game amongst all players since 2011 and there are only 7 LWers with a better gpg average (and one of them is Ilya Kovalchuk). So if Tanev is a top pairing dman then Evander Kane is a LW1. Which is the truth. Tanev is a solid #2 and Kane is a LW1 who is one of the most complete LWers in the game. To insinuate there are 30 LWers better then Kane overall is just patently false.

Kane isn't anything special though is in the top 6 amongst active NHLers in goals per game at his position the last 6 seasons, is an elite forechecker, has elite speed, one of the most physical players in the game, is a good PKer and can fight but yeah he's nothing special :laugh:
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Evander Kane is one of the most complete LWers in the game? How can you be complete if you are plainly not good defensively? Evander Kane is not a top line left wing. You can refer to where his GPG rank him among LW's but it is not relevant. Does he play on the top line? No. Should he? No. Why? Because he isn't good at that role. In fact, he's poor at it. He's a good player who can drive a line secondary line by himself but isn't capable of being an overall strong player on a line where other, better players are driving the play. He's not a special player.
 
Der Jaeger

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
17,770
14,239
Cair Paravel
La Cosa Nostra said:
Kane is absolutely a first line player and a top 10-15 LWer. He is 25th in goals per game amongst all players since 2011 and there are only 7 LWers with a better gpg average (and one of them is Ilya Kovalchuk). So if Tanev is a top pairing dman then Evander Kane is a LW1. Which is the truth. Tanev is a solid #2 and Kane is a LW1 who is one of the most complete LWers in the game. To insinuate there are 30 LWers better then Kane overall is just patently false.

Kane isn't anything special though is in the top 6 amongst active NHLers in goals per game at his position the last 6 seasons, is an elite forechecker, has elite speed, one of the most physical players in the game, is a good PKer and can fight but yeah he's nothing special :laugh:
Click to expand...

Over the past few years, Tanev rates as a top pairing defensemen due to his defensive and possession play. His possession, goal and shot suppression, and Corsi and goal differential squarely peg him as a top pairing defenseman.

To be fair, Tanev's shot and goal generation stats are not great.... around what you'd expect from a borderline #4 but likely a 5-6 defenseman in the league. That however, is greatly outweighed by his possession and defensive play. He's among the best in the league as a possession gaining, goal and shot suppressing defenseman.

That leads to pedestrian point totals. One has to wander into advanced stats to see Tanev's value. When you do, it's easy to see he's a top pairing defenseman.

What's the going rate for top pairing defensemen under contract for longer than a year? (pro tip: check out Edmonton).
 
jc17

jc17

Registered User
Jun 14, 2013
11,035
7,765
ZZamboni said:
As long as you or others don't actually think he would call out his coach in public with a 5 weeks of games remaining....

I mean no one expects that nonsense. Right?
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Right, it's not like calling out Bylsma would "light a fire" under the coach and make him coach better. If Tim doesn't like what Dan's doing, its not going to change this season.
 
ZZamboni

ZZamboni

Puttin' on the Foil
Sep 25, 2010
15,399
1,449
Buffalo, NY
jc17 said:
Right, it's not like calling out Bylsma would "light a fire" under the coach and make him coach better. If Tim doesn't like what Dan's doing, its not going to change this season.
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Oh he can and probably has, had talks with Dan. There is ZERO need for TM to publicly embarrass or make snide remarks regarding the coaching staff. It would be amateurish and petty IMO.
 
joshjull

joshjull

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
78,722
40,523
Hamburg,NY
ZZamboni said:
Oh he can and probably has, had talks with Dan. There is ZERO need for TM to publicly embarrass or make snide remarks regarding the coaching staff. It would be amateurish and petty IMO.
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It sure sounds like he did. Murray mentioned during his post deadline presser he was with the coaches until 12:30am after the game the night before
 

Havok89

Registered User
Oct 26, 2010
5,127
916
joshjull said:
It sure sounds like he did. Murray mentioned during his post deadline presser he was with the coaches until 12:30am after the game the night before
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And we'll still see the passive 1-2-2 vs a garbage Arizona team
 

Lessavyfav

Registered User
Aug 2, 2010
805
22
Sabre Dance said:
Looks like Murray's taking the blame, probably means Bylma is safe.
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Hamilton is going to the Harrington school of journalism. He cherry picked that quote out of an entire interview because he knows it will generate clicks and retweets. Compare that to Yerdon who actually posted more of the interview.
 

dkollidas

Registered User
Nov 18, 2010
3,852
545
Would like to see Rodrigues get bumped up the lineup a bit if Okposo is out for some games. He's really impressed. Wonder if they'd try him on Eichel's wing and move Reinhart up with O'Reilly.
 
haseoke39

haseoke39

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
13,938
2,491
sabrebuild said:
Was there some belief that he doesn't know that his defense is bad?
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I mean, that was entirely possible based on what he's done in building it. I'm relieved to hear it.

I don't think he's willing to pay what it would take to fix it, but it's nice that he's aware of what he's created.
 
Sabre Dance

Sabre Dance

Make Hockey Fun Again
Jul 27, 2006
12,456
2,243
haseoke39 said:
I mean, that was entirely possible based on what he's done in building it. I'm relieved to hear it.

I don't think he's willing to pay what it would take to fix it, but it's nice that he's aware of what he's created.
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Tim Murray had 14 1st and 2nd round picks since becoming GM of the Sabres. All he has to show for it when it comes to defense is Gorges, Bogosian, and Guhle.
 
Gordo21

Gordo21

Registered User
Feb 9, 2017
978
193
Sabre Dance said:
Tim Murray had 14 1st and 2nd round picks since becoming GM of the Sabres. All he has to show for it when it comes to defense is Gorges, Bogosian, and Guhle.
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And his plan is to squander unnecessary assets to get himself one. It's incredible really.
 
haseoke39

haseoke39

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
13,938
2,491
Sabre Dance said:
Tim Murray had 14 1st and 2nd round picks since becoming GM of the Sabres. All he has to show for it when it comes to defense is Gorges, Bogosian, and Guhle.
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Yeah, I look at it in terms of what he's prioritized over three years.

Myers for Bogosian. Back end gets worse.
Zadorov for nothing on the back end.
McNabb for nothing on the back end.
Pysyk for a guy they seem ready to let walk.
Can't really point to a move that improved the defense, except for bottom pairing chaff that couldn't get a contract or teams were trying to dump, like Franson or Gorges. Passed on drafting one high last year, which could be the right choice in the long run, but who knows. Rumored he wouldn't trade #8 for Fowler, which, if true, would just be ridiculous -- would be like, half the value of the ROR package for an equivalent player at a position of greater need.

It's a healthy track record by now. It's a fair body of work to infer some things about his team building strategy. I obviously don't know what he's thinking for this summer, but I think he's earned some skepticism.
 
haseoke39

haseoke39

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
13,938
2,491
fiend540 said:
Not calling Myers for Bogosian a wash is just agenda pushing
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Myers has been playing 22-23 minutes a night on a quality Winnipeg blueline. Clearly a top 4 player.

Only a serious injury this year calls his value going forward into question, but it's way premature to flip out over that. Since the trade, Bogo has 123 gp, Myers 108, not even that far off overall.
 
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