New York Islanders: Roster Discussion: Filppula out 4 weeks; Boychuk, Eberle day to day

[Brunomics]

Yes absolutely. Doesn't change the fact that Pelech is the worst defenseman out of the 6 starters listed.

Pelech will show what he is this season which is a boring #4 defenseman that doesn't have a high or low ceiling.

This team has 2 2nd pair pairings and a 3rd. There is no top end talent.

 

[PK Cronin]

He’s definitely carved out his place in the league in my opinion. When he’s used properly (bottom six minutes 5v5 with PK minutes), he can be effective.

I think he’ll do well in Arizona. Tocchet wants to play fast while Capuano wanted to slow everything down.

I think he's a niche role player in the NHL whose offensive ability is overrated and exaggerated by many. People around here wanted him on the top line and to be given PP time. He isn't good at handling the puck, has hands of stone, isn't really physical, and doesn't have the highest hockey IQ. Things he was good at included getting breakaways, scoring shorthanded, and skating quickly. A serviceable player, and in his prime he was fine on the second line, but he doesn't make or break a team.

 

[Brunomics]

Which Grabner do you think we would get? The one on the Rangers 2 years ago or the one from last year who the Devils got who didn't score for either team? That's the one the Islanders had who was missing wide and ringing rockets off the glass. The Coyotes signed him for 3 years. Let them have him.

Peca is all based on potential. He wasn't taking a 1 year deal.

I was never the biggest deHaan fan on this board. With his history of shoulder problems I wouldn't have committed the term to him that he was seeking.

Agree with you on Carter Hutton. I wish we would have made a play for him.

I wanted nothing to do with him. He's another product of St Louis just like Elliott was.

 

[scott99]

If we are planning on winning, Toews should be playing because he is a better player than Sbisa.

If we are planning on losing, Toews should be playing because it is more important for him to gain experience than an already experienced defenseman on a one year deal.

It seems simple to me.

Where's the dislike button. This is an uninformed take right here. How can you proclaim something that hasn't happened yet. let see how the team and Sbisa play in the regular season first.

 

[Spybot]

Then there are too many restrictions on Grabner’s usage to justify signing him to a 3 year deal.

Well he's no world beater, but there's no justification that would excuse Komarov's deal either. Right now Grabner's the better player with the better contract. If the primary goal was to sign a PK specialist, that was the guy to get instead of Komarov.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Well he's no world beater, but there's no justification that would excuse Komarov's deal either. Right now Grabner's the better player with the better contract. If the primary goal was to sign a PK specialist, that was the guy to get instead of Komarov.

Over the last two seasons Komarov was on the ice for 367 minutes on the PK, and gave up 17 goals. Grabner was on the ice for 292 minutes, and gave up 21 goals.
I'm not sure that a three year deal at 3.35 is better than four at 3, especially considering that Leo is the better player.

 

[seafoam]

Then there are too many restrictions on Grabner’s usage to justify signing him to a 3 year deal.

That’s the cost of signing a UFA.

 

[Spybot]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the love affair Isles fans have with Grabner is nauseating. He wasn't that good.

No he isn't "that" good. He doesn't have to be that good considering how much he makes and who he could have replaced. I mean, while he was scoring 20+ for the rags for 1.5M a year, the Islanders were playing Quine and Fritz. I don't know if it's infatuation, but for a decently long time now he's been a pretty cap efficient player. I expect that to continue.

 

[PK Cronin]

No he isn't "that" good. He doesn't have to be that good considering how much he makes and who he could have replaced. I mean, while he was scoring 20 for the rags for 1.5M a year, the Islanders were playing Quine and Fritz. I don't know if it's infatuation, but for a decently long time now he's been a really cap efficient player. I expect that to continue.

He's unreliable. His offensive production should be seen as a bonus. We can't always look at it from the "but he's better than [x]" standpoint. He costs more, he wanted more term, there's a reason he left. He's not a core guy that you can build around. A luxury that wouldn't have made any difference to last years team.

 

[MJF]

Well he's no world beater, but there's no justification that would excuse Komarov's deal either. Right now Grabner's the better player with the better contract. If the primary goal was to sign a PK specialist, that was the guy to get instead of Komarov.

That's simply not true. Komarov was the better PKer last year with a cheaper contract this year.

 

[Spybot]

He's unreliable. His offensive production should be seen as a bonus. We can't always look at it from the "but he's better than [x]" standpoint. He costs more, he wanted more term, there's a reason he left. He's not a core guy that you can build around. A luxury that wouldn't have made any difference to last years team.

He's definitely not a core guy and I doubt anybody would claim that he is. He probably wouldn't have made a difference to last year's team, but not that many players make a difference all by themselves. You can also improve a team by making a couple of small smart moves that add up like what the rags did when they signed him for 2 years. Got great value out of that. Who exactly are you comparing him to when you say that he costs more and wanted more term? His AAV is marginally higher than Komarov's and his term is better.

That's simply not true. Komarov was the better PKer last year with a cheaper contract this year.

Grabner's marginally more expensive than Komarov and when it comes to ~3M bottom sixers I consider term to be more important than AAV, they can fall off a cliff any time after 30 especially when they're as physical as Komarov. By what measure exactly was Komarov the significantly better PKer?

Over the last two seasons Komarov was on the ice for 367 minutes on the PK, and gave up 17 goals. Grabner was on the ice for 292 minutes, and gave up 21 goals.
I'm not sure that a three year deal at 3.35 is better than four at 3, especially considering that Leo is the better player.

I don't know where you're getting those stats from, I see 341 minutes with 30GA for Komarov and 283 minutes and 20 GA for Grabner on 5v4 PK. We could include all PK situations, but that wouldn't make it better for Komarov. Regardless, pure goals against are probably a pretty shoddy indicator of an individual player's ability unless you're suggesting they run the PK all by themselves (and play goalie too).

 

[PK Cronin]

He's definitely not a core guy and I doubt anybody would claim that he is. He probably wouldn't have made a difference to last year's team, but not that many players make a difference all by themselves. You can also improve a team by making a couple of small smart moves that add up like what the rags did when they signed him for 2 years. Got great value out of that. Who exactly are you comparing him to when you say that he costs more and wanted more term? His AAV is marginally higher than Komarov's and his term is better.

I'm wrong on my timeline of events.

When he was traded to Toronto he was making $3 million AAV and hadn't really produced. Then he signed that deal with the Rangers for $1.65 million. He produced until he went to the Devils, where he did nothing. Then he signed his current deal which is too expensive again at $3.35 million. I wouldn't commit that much money or term to a guy who can easily revert to someone who produces 15-25 points per season.

 

[isles55]

Where's the dislike button. This is an uninformed take right here. How can you proclaim something that hasn't happened yet. let see how the team and Sbisa play in the regular season first.

Sbisa is a 28 year old that has played nearly 500 games. He's proven himself to be a below-replacement level player.

 

[Spybot]

I'm wrong on my timeline of events.

When he was traded to Toronto he was making $3 million AAV and hadn't really produced. Then he signed that deal with the Rangers for $1.65 million. He produced until he went to the Devils, where he did nothing. Then he signed his current deal which is too expensive again at $3.35 million. I wouldn't commit that much money or term to a guy who can easily revert to someone who produces 15-25 points per season.

I don't think 20 games with a brand new team is enough to establish anything when he's got over 150 games with another one that prove that he's effective in the right role, but granted, he can be streaky and he's no star.

I'm curious if you expect Komarov to be a 30-35 point player for the duration of his contract. Difference in opinions I suppose, but I'd much rather have a streaky player for 3 years than a grinder whose permanent decline may have already started signed for 4 years.

 

[PK Cronin]

I don't think 20 games with a brand new team is enough to establish anything when he's got over 150 games with another one that prove that he's effective in the right role, but granted, he can be streaky and he's no star.

I'm curious if you expect Komarov to be a 30-35 point player for the duration of his contract. Difference in opinions I suppose, but I'd much rather have a streaky player for 3 years than a grinder whose permanent decline may have already started signed for 4 years.

Komarov is known as a leader though, while we've never heard anything of the sort about Grabner. I'm not crazy about either as far as their on-ice production is concerned. It's my understanding that Komarov will lay the body a bit too, so I'm hoping he'll make us better defensively five on five. Grabner excelled in offensive systems here and again in an offensive system with the Rags. Not sure he'd excel in a Trotz system.

 

[doublechili]

Isles could go back in time and hire in-their-primes Torrey and Arbour and people on this board would still ***** and moan about something.
Good thing the internet wasn’t around in 1977.

So true. No one ever talks about it now, but I was in the stands those years and especially during the 1979-80 season fans were complaining about Torrey, Arbour and half the players. The team's record that year was not great and they were coming off losing to the NYR in the playoffs the year before (and TOR the year before that). A LOT of fans were ready to tear things up. No one was expecting a Cup that year, let alone 4 in a row. Of course after the fact I'm sure none of those people own up to wanting those guys run out of town.

 

[doublechili]

Re: Pelech, check his junior numbers. In his 4 OHL years his points went from 13 > 20 > 40 > 54. In that last season he was a +52 and was on Canada's WJC team.

So yeah, it's pretty much impossible that he can improve.

 

[Spybot]

Komarov is known as a leader though, while we've never heard anything of the sort about Grabner. I'm not crazy about either as far as their on-ice production is concerned. It's my understanding that Komarov will lay the body a bit too, so I'm hoping he'll make us better defensively five on five. Grabner excelled in offensive systems here and again in an offensive system with the Rags. Not sure he'd excel in a Trotz system.

Laying a body doesn't necessarily mean good defense and the evidence that Komarov is great defensively is hard to come by. I don't know how valuable his leadership is, but I know that his on ice play can't possibly justify the contract he was given so oh well. Hopefully he'll work out a little better than Clutterbuck, but I'm not holding my breath. All the money and term we already have tied up in our physical 'leaders' annoys me.

 

[PK Cronin]

Laying a body doesn't necessarily mean good defense and the evidence that Komarov is great defensively is hard to come by. I don't know how valuable his leadership is, but I know that his on ice play can't possibly justify the contract he was given so oh well. Hopefully he'll work out a little better than Clutterbuck, but I'm not holding my breath. All the money and term we already have tied up in our physical 'leaders' annoys me.

I didn't mean to imply that laying the body alone makes him great defensively, but his willingness to do so should help this team, given the style of play I think they're being taught to play. If he can have a positive impact on the younger guys, showing them how it's done without the greatest skill, fine. Not a great signing, but it's not one I'm super pissed about either.

Agreed that there are too many of these contracts on the team currently.

 

[Macch]

Re: Pelech, check his junior numbers. In his 4 OHL years his points went from 13 > 20 > 40 > 54. In that last season he was a +52 and was on Canada's WJC team.

So yeah, it's pretty much impossible that he can improve.

Pelech was everyone's favorite 3rd round steal in 2012. He's got talent.

After one season of Weight's shit-show he's everyone's favorite whipping boy.

Fearless prediction: After Leddy and Pulock, Pelech will be our 3rd best defenseman by the halfway point of the season.

 

[seafoam]

Pelech was everyone's favorite 3rd round steal in 2012. He's got talent.

After one season of Weight's ****-show he's everyone's favorite whipping boy.

Fearless prediction: After Leddy and Pulock, Pelech will be our 3rd best defenseman by the halfway point of the season.

Only because Toews will be stuck in Bridgeport!

 

[steveat]

Pelech is future number 2

Komarov may not turn heads, but he knows how LL works and can help shape the team quicker in this culture change we are going through. There was also a few teams in on him before he signed with us.

Also, about Sbisa...he's apparently very good in the locker room. He's our Seidenberg of this year. I'm sure it was between him and Seids before they decided to go with Sbisa.

DeHaan just healed from his FOURTH shoulder injury, so no..he's lucky we offered what we did.

 

[seafoam]

Pelech is future number 2

Komarov may not turn heads, but he knows how LL works and can help shape the team quicker in this culture change we are going through. There was also a few teams in on him before he signed with us.

Also, about Sbisa...he's apparently very good in the locker room. He's our Seidenberg of this year. I'm sure it was between him and Seids before they decided to go with Sbisa.

DeHaan just healed from his FOURTH shoulder injury, so no..he's lucky we offered what we did.

You think he has Dumolin upside?

 

[steveat]

You think he has Dumolin upside?

I actually see him as a hybrid offensive/shutdown guy..not specializing in one or the other.

 

[buud]

I actually see him as a hybrid offensive/shutdown guy..not specializing in one or the other.

that's what i would guess. tops out at a good #3. versatile.

he is prone to mistakes, but i think it is mostly fixable. i think he needs just a bit of time.