Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXI

[Ghost of jas]

We need these other teams to start doing their job. Win some ****ing games Ottawa, Flyers, Detroit, etc.

There are games this weekend where teams below are playing each other, so the gap is going to close even more.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I'm fine with guys developing up here, although I'm also perplexed by the Howden and Pionk obsessions. I don't love the deadline chaos, but they need to learn adversity. Every season is difficult and I don't really think it ruins a players development when they're on bad teams. If they're that mentally weak then they probably won't amount to anything anyway.

Loads of great NHL players came up under garbage lottery teams.

 

[Dijock94]

Gotta be honest, I’m not very worried about the kids being ruined. Frankly, there’s nothing wrong with them facing and learning from adversity. I saw a post during the game thread about keeping Gates because the losing will call morale to drop. If some of these kids are such fragile little eggshells, then this rebuild is already doomed and we might as well close up shop. Besides, I’m going to wager that the majority of the core that the Rangers are building are not in New York and very likely not yet in the organization.

I agree 100%. Kids should develop fast trying to compete against the best, and if they don’t they probably never had it to begin with.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Reading Dolans love of Hank and him stating he has a chance to beat Broduer in total wins has me worried Hank gets an extension after the current deal expires.

Clueless Jim strikes again.

 

[Roo Returns]

I don't get the Pionk hate. Let me remind y'all he hasn't even been an NHL player for a full calendar year.

Also he's not supposed to be another version Leetch or McD. He's going to be a second pair PP/PK guy who will play 16-19 minutes a night when all is said and done and when people are properly slotted.

As for scoring. Don't worry so much about Chytil or Howden now. They'll get rewarded post TDL. We see it every year in the league. Once that tension is over and teams no what they are/where they're going, games get loose.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I've *****ed and complained about Hanks contract since the day he signed it.

I knew it was bad, but they didn’t have a choice at that time.

 

[Roo Returns]

Clueless Jim strikes again.

Dolan speaking is news because he rarely does. Dolan saying what he said is fluff and printed because locally there's not much else to talk about (Giants/Jets not in playoffs, MLB FA process is slow, NY NBA area teams are not doing anything). Only thing going on right now is McCarthy to Jets speculation and the media looking for any OBJ drama like if he's at an awards show or didn't give someone a good enough tip at whatever restaurant he's at.

If Dolan came out and said "He's the backup as soon as that Russian kid gets here" THAT would be true coffee cooler.

 

[Off Sides]

Rangers are bad, try to make the AHL good.

If the AHL does not turn out to be a good developmental place, what is the point to this rebuild?

Are they not going to continue to add prospects who will or should play there?

Or is every, could be better than depth prospect going into the NHL asap to pretend it's leading to competitiveness?

The optics that the Rangers rebuild is not good because none of their top prospects are even in the NHL is of lesser importance to them actually rebuilding in a patient, well thought out manner.

To me it's not about the prospects being ruined, it's more about this NHL team, the vets who are pouting are just not a good influence at this point. This is not likely to be a winning environment, and I just don't see anything good coming from it as coaching seems intent on trying to make it a winning environment, which is going to have side effects on the playing roster and time on ice and such.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I knew it was bad, but they didn’t have a choice at that time.

They did. They could have gone with Talbot

 

[Sarge13]

20 year old Howden compared to Libdberg who didn't play in NA until he was 24? Come on now....

The points may not be coming but at 20 years old I see a lot of similarities with some other recent first rounders, who also didn't put up a ton of points in their first season sometimes playing with a much better roster too.

This is a team that's developing you're going to have to expect some guys to have longer leashes than others this is not a competition of fairness this is a competition of building a winning culture, a winning team.

Video game rosters are way more easier to put together when you take away the human element, trust me.

 

[Leetch3]

I've been advocating for that for years. An elite goalie cripples the team, because they will be paid like elite centers despite not having the same impact. Someone compared goalies to punters in football. While that's not the best comparison, I can see where that guy was coming from.

not going to argue the importance of a goalie but I couldn't possibly disagree more that hank cripples our cap. we have spent plenty of $$ on skaters they have just been crappy. when a contender is paying rick nash $7.8 mil to be a jan erixon clone and staal/girardi $10 mil the issue wasn't that hank made a couple mil more than other goalies

 

[NYR Viper]

I wonder if part of the reason we are hearing rumors of Fast being dealt is because they feel Meskanen can be a similar type player very soon. 23 years old, 24 points in 37 games in his first season in North America. In the pre-season he seemed to play with a similar motor and ability to create turnovers using his speed and quickness.

 

[One Winged Angel]

They did. They could have gone with Talbot

Not proven enough at that time. Remember, when Lundqvist was given that contract during the 2013-14 season, Talbot if lucky, maybe played about 10 career games by that point in the season.

No one would be able to make any type of assessment, especially one that directly impacts the immediate and long term future of a franchise based off of maybe 10 games of a completely unproven goaltender.

 

[One Winged Angel]

20 year old Howden compared to Libdberg who didn't play in NA until he was 24? Come on now....

The points may not be coming but at 20 years old I see a lot of similarities with some other recent first rounders, who also didn't put up a ton of points in their first season sometimes playing with a much better roster too.

This is a team that's developing you're going to have to expect some guys to have longer leashes than others this is not a competition of fairness this is a competition of building a winning culture, a winning team.

Video game rosters are way more easier to put together when you take away the human element, trust me.

Disagree on Howden. I don’t see anything that screams first rounder about him or that he could turn into a player worth the first round selection.

I think he can be a serviceable player, but Gorton got absolutely killed by Yzerman in that deal.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Dolan speaking is news because he rarely does. Dolan saying what he said is fluff and printed because locally there's not much else to talk about (Giants/Jets not in playoffs, MLB FA process is slow, NY NBA area teams are not doing anything). Only thing going on right now is McCarthy to Jets speculation and the media looking for any OBJ drama like if he's at an awards show or didn't give someone a good enough tip at whatever restaurant he's at.

If Dolan came out and said "He's the backup as soon as that Russian kid gets here" THAT would be true coffee cooler.

Normally, I’d agree with you about the fluff part, but being that I know people who have personally worked under him, it’s really not. He most likely truly believes that and it’s a scary thought.

 

[NYR Viper]

Disagree on Howden. I don’t see anything that screams first rounder about him or that he could turn into a player worth the first round selection.

I think he can be a serviceable player, but Gorton got absolutely killed by Yzerman in that deal.

Define 'worth a first round selection'

 

[One Winged Angel]

Define 'worth a first round selection'

Do you think he was worth the 27th overall pick?

Do you think he’s going to amount to anything more than a good 3rd line center?

I don’t. It’s fine if you disagree, but the fact of the matter is that he hasn’t shown us anything to this point that would give me any semblance of hope to believe otherwise, especially after disappearing in 5 v 5 situations around let’s say mid-November.

He seems to be a good penalty killer, I’ll give him that.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Do you think he was worth the 27th overall pick?

Do you think he’s going to amount to anything more than a good 3rd line center?

I don’t. It’s fine if you disagree, but the fact of the matter is that he hasn’t shown us anything to this point that would give me any semblance of hope to believe otherwise, especially after disappearing in 5 v 5 situations around let’s say mid-November.

He seems to be a good penalty killer, I’ll give him that.

My view is that if the Rangers are depending on Howden to be more than a very good 3rd line center, then the rebuild is not going to be successful.

 

[Fitzy]

That Lundqvist somehow cost us a cup because he was making 8.5 million as opposed to the league average of about 5 million is a silly argument. It's true- many cup winning teams have low paid goalies- but they do so that they can keep their high priced drafted RFAs and superstars- of which the Rangers have had none. We've had to go to UFA or trades for superstar players and have a pretty low success rate therein.

That amount between a Hank contract and a Talbot contract maybe lets us extend Carl Hagelin. That's the odds that push us over the edge? I'd take Hank over Talbot+Hagelin personally.

 

[Vitto79]

My view is that if the Rangers are depending on Howden to be more than a very good 3rd line center, then the rebuild is not going to be successful.

I think they need 1 of Howden or Andersson to be the 2 C sooooo let’s see

 

[nyr2k2]

Do you think he was worth the 27th overall pick?

Do you think he’s going to amount to anything more than a good 3rd line center?

I don’t. It’s fine if you disagree, but the fact of the matter is that he hasn’t shown us anything to this point that would give me any semblance of hope to believe otherwise, especially after disappearing in 5 v 5 situations around let’s say mid-November.

He seems to be a good penalty killer, I’ll give him that.

Look at his draft. From the 17th pick down to the 30th pick, no one is outperforming Howden in the NHL. Only 4 of those 13 other guys have played in the NHL to this point and the most "successful" in the NHL is Tage Thompson, another center who has 18 points in 77 games. What should he be doing to justify his position? If the rest of those guys are any indication, he should be in the AHL, where most of them are. If he's in over his head at the moment, he's in good company with every other dude drafted after him other than DeBrincat in Round 2 and Bratt drafted in Round 6.

If he was in the AHL, where he should be, putting up nice numbers, I don't think anyone would be questioning if he looks like a first round pick. But either way, again looking at the draft board, I don't know how you could reasonably make the argument that he was somehow unworthy of the 27th overall pick. Really, go look at it and tell me who is more worthy:

2016 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

 

[Dijock94]

I wonder if part of the reason we are hearing rumors of Fast being dealt is because they feel Meskanen can be a similar type player very soon. 23 years old, 24 points in 37 games in his first season in North America. In the pre-season he seemed to play with a similar motor and ability to create turnovers using his speed and quickness.

Hope so honestly

 

[Ghost of jas]

I think they need 1 of Howden or Andersson to be the 2 C sooooo let’s see

Nope. They are going to have an opportunity to draft at least one, if not two, centers in the next two drafts that should have higher upside than Howden offensively. And I’m for keeping Zibanejad around. Asking Howden or Andersson to fill the 2C role means the Rangers are not aiming have enough in their pursuit of talent. And I don’t believe that’s the approach.

 

[Fitzy]

I think they need 1 of Howden or Andersson to be the 2 C sooooo let’s see

Does Zibanejad have a terminal illness? He's 25 years old.

 

[Dijock94]

Disagree on Howden. I don’t see anything that screams first rounder about him or that he could turn into a player worth the first round selection.

I think he can be a serviceable player, but Gorton got absolutely killed by Yzerman in that deal.

A late first rounder. Namestnikov technically is a first rounder too, so was Korpikoski. They’re not all offensive dynamos. Management probably knew his ceiling was a good 3C when they made the trade.