Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVI

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Rossi's mailbag: How could the Penguins land Chris Kreider?
Hi Rob, if the Penguins target Kreider do you think the asking price would be higher since both teams play in the same division? And what do you think the Penguins would have to give up to get him?

The Penguins are targeting Kreider. They’ve inquired. They’ve not been told by the New York Rangers that Kreider isn’t available, which should dismiss the notion that Kreider won’t be moved to a Metropolitan club.
Here’s what seems to be the consensus regarding Kreider’s status:
He’ll be moved.
The asking price is a first-round pick... (more behind paywall, but this is the main point)

Sounds like Pitt doesn't have the ammo to get Kreider.

Uh... if Kreider could be had for ONLY a first round pick, I'm pretty certain he'd be wearing another uniform right now...

 

[Edge]

Fox is a rookie, DeAngelo in his 4th nhl season, is 24 where most players peak in this era.

Fine, then he's peaked.

Sign me up for a 60 point, 24 year old defenseman.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Fine, then he's peaked.

Sign me up for a 60 point, 24 year old defenseman.

He isnt a 60 point dman until he gets 60 points in a season. Right now he has had a 14 pt, an 8pt, a 30 point and currently a 37 point season.

 

[Edge]

Who said any of that?

This thread is filled with it, spread over various discussions and multiple players.

The main argument by some for keeping Kreider is that there's money coming off the books. That same money coming off the books is thus available for ADA.

Money is not the issue, especially if we're talking about Fox not even needing a new contract until after Lundqvist, Staal and Smith are off the books.

If Fox and ADA were both free agents this summer, yes, we'd have a serious problem. But they're not.

So how about we actually see if Fox can keep building on this season, because we do have the time, before making a trade?

 

[Edge]

He isnt a 60 point dman until he gets 60 points in a season.

And Fox isn't a 50 point defenseman, let alone a 60 point defenseman, until he does it.

But I can tell you this much, ADA has actually posted roughly 60 points over an 82 game sample size.

Has Fox?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

And Fox isn't a 50 point defenseman, let alone a 60 point defenseman, until he does it.

But I can tell you this much, ADA has actually posted roughly 60 points over an 82 game sample size.

Has Fox?

What did DeAngelo get for points his rookie season? Far shot from Fox. DeAngelo only had 30 points last year Fox is almost there.
DeAngelo
14
8
30
37

Fox
27


Funny how in a contract year he posts his best season, that never happened before

 

[Riche16]

Fox is a rookie, DeAngelo in his 4th nhl season, is 24 where most players peak in this era.

Oh boy... get ready. Here it comes...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Oh boy... get ready. Here it comes...

?

 

[Riche16]

?

Saying D-men peak at 24

 

[Edge]

What did DeAngelo get for points his rookie season? Far shot from Fox. DeAngelo only had 30 points last year Fox is almost there.
DeAngelo
14
8
30
37

Fox
27

So your answer is no, Fox is not a 50 point defenseman. And therefore, no Fox is also not a 60 point defenseman. But this whole strategy is based around the hope that he can be, and the belief that ADA can't (even though he's already there).

But let's even say you're right, and Fox is as good. Why can't we wait for him to actually show us before we make a move?

Why do you believe that ADA is going to fall off so amazingly that his value is going to plummet?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Not going above 3aav for Fast.

I think he could bring back a Grabner link return. He's the type of guy playoff bound teams covet.

Grabner had 27 goals the year we traded him so maybe not?

 

[Shesterkybomb]

So your answer is no, Fox is not a 50 point defenseman. And therefore, no Fox is also not a 60 point defenseman. But this whole strategy is based around the hope that he can be, and the belief that ADA can't (even though he's already there).

But let's even say you're right, and Fox is as good. Why can't we wait for him to actually show us before we make a move?

Why do you believe that ADA is going to fall off so amazingly that his value is going to plummet?

No it is not based on Fox being a 60 point guy. It's based on us adding a 70+ point guy up front and Fox being able to fill some of DeAngelo point loss while being better defensively and adding a player like Keane or Lundqvist to take the 3rd rd role.
I dont see DeAngelo all of a sudden being bad offensively but I do see Fox being good enough in both ends to take ice time from DeAngelo as we go forward.

 

[Edge]

No it is not based on Fox being a 60 point guy. It's based on us adding a 70 point guy up front and Fox being able to fill some of DeAngelo point loss while being better defensively.

But WHY do we have to trade ADA to get that 70 point guy up front? And WHY do we have to do it now?

You implied the answer to the latter question is because ADA's value has peaked. WHY do you believe that?

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Fast is not getting more than a 3rd rounder

 

[Shesterkybomb]

But WHY do we have to trade ADA to get that 70 point guy up front? And WHY do we have to do it now?

You implied the answer to the latter question is because ADA's value has peaked. WHY do you believe that?

I cant see DeAngelo replicating this season when Fox overtakes him on the depth chart.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

But WHY do we have to trade ADA to get that 70 point guy up front? And WHY do we have to do it now?

You implied the answer to the latter question is because ADA's value has peaked. WHY do you believe that?

Who are you trading to get a 70 point forward?

 

[Edge]

I cant see DeAngelo replicating this season when Fox overtakes him on the depth chart.

But Fox hasn’t overtaken him on the depth chart. That’s all an assumption and one based on a guy who has 50 games of experience.

But I’ll play Devil’s advocate. Fox passes him. His production drops a bit.

Why wouldn’t another team, seeing what he’s capable of when given the time and role, be interested in trading for him?

More important, if he’s due for anew contact anyway, and that contract will be based off what he’s doing based on this season, why would there be a huge difference in his value reading him now vs. a year from now? I don’t see there being a major shift there.

 

[Lion Hound]

NHL trade deadline preview: Possible moves, what to watch for all 31 teams




New York Rangers
What to watch: The next few weeks are crucial for the Rangers as they determine their path going forward. This team is straddling the end of a rebuild and the beginning of a new era of contending. A four-game homestand from Feb. 3 to Feb. 9 against the Stars, Maple Leafs, Sabres and Kings could determine which direction GM Jeff Gorton goes at the deadline.
The two big names to watch are Alexandar Georgiev and Chris Kreider. The 28-year-old Kreider is on an expiring contract. There is a chance that the Rangers will re-sign him, but there are plenty of contending teams (such as the Blues, Penguins and Bruins) that would jump at the chance to acquire him (given the right price). Georgiev, meanwhile, is likely the odd man out in the Rangers' three-goalie carousel, especially if Henrik Lundqvist maintains that he does not want to waive his no-movement clause. Georgiev's value has never been higher, and backup-needy teams such as the Maple Leafs are very interested. Ideally, the Rangers could acquire a first-round pick in return. They aren't in a rush, though. Georgiev's situation could be settled at the NHL draft in June as well. Veteran Jesper Fast is also a free agent this summer and would be a nice boost for a contending team, but the Rangers might want to re-sign him.
The wild card is Lias Andersson, the No. 7 pick of the 2017 draft who requested a trade and then went home to Sweden. New York recently loaned Andersson to Swedish Hockey League team HV71, signaling that the relationship might not be as frosty as it once was. If New York could find the right partner, it would move Andersson, but the Rangers don't want to lose him for nothing, considering he's only 21.

 

[Edge]

Who are you trading to get a 70 point forward?

I’ve already told you, I am using our other assets to do that.

As we’ve done before.

As other teams do and have done.

In other words, the types of trades we see - prospects, picks and a package for a team that is at the same stage we are now, but won’t be then.

Or I am moving ADA, if indeed other guys over take him.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

But Fox hasn’t overtaken him on the depth chart. That’s all an assumption and one based on a guy who has 50 games of experience.

But I’ll play Devil’s advocate. Fox passes him. His production drops a bit.

Why wouldn’t another team, seeing what he’s capable of when given the time and role, be interested in trading for him?

More important, if he’s due for anew contact anyway, and that contract will be based off what he’s doing based on this season, why would there be a huge difference in his value reading him now vs. a year from now? I don’t see there being a major shift there.

Because at that point he has a 6 mill/6 year contract attached to him and that's IF he doesnt have a drop off. I'm not saying it will happen but say he loses ice time, ends up with 35 points, up til now a good season for him. What is his value with a 6 mill contract attached to him? He is all of a sudden Kevin Shattenkirk.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I’ve already told you, I am using our other assets to do that.

As we’ve done before.

As other teams do and have done.

In other words, the types of trades we see - prospects, picks and a package for a team that is at the same stage we are now, but won’t be then.

Or I am moving ADA, if indeed other guys over take him.

Fine...but at that point we now we have half our cap tied up in 3 rd, a ld, lw and a center.

 

[Edge]

Because at that point he has a 6 mill/6 year contract attached to him and that's IF he doesnt have a drop off. I'm not saying it will happen but say he loses ice time, ends up with 35 points, up til now a good season for him. What is his value with a 6 mill contract attached to him? He is all of a sudden Kevin Shattenkirk.

If Fox is getting close to 50 points as a rookie, in the same role, I don’t think a peak ADA is dropping to 35 if we swap them.

And no he’s not Shattekirk.

Not unless he has multiple knee surgeries.

And drinks a potion that makes him 30 years old instead of 26.

And the Rangers face another cap crunch after shedding nearly $20 in salary.

So in other words, that’s not a great comparison. I don’t think it’s accurate, or fair.

 

[Edge]

Fine...but at that point we now we have half our cap tied up in 3 rd, a ld, lw and a center.

Well, at the earliest, that point is two years out.

Which is a big part of my point, this doesn’t need to be a right now decision.

 

[Ola]

Because his value Is probably as high as it ever will be right now.

Actually, TDA doesn’t have much value at all on the trade market. He can become a UFA after three more years and there is — nothing — you can do about it. Anyone trading for him right now would be held hostage until you pay him whatever he wants.

With TDAs stats line he will get a ton in arbitration. He doesn’t have to take any long term offer to make “more” short term.

I love TDA, but at 7-8m per year? Nobody will love him at that cost, and unless he is willing to take a “home-town discount”, that is how much he will cost. If he wants to get paid well for the coming three season and then go to Philly as a UFA, he can do that.

Gorton’s move to give a young upcoming RFA without arbitration rights like TDA a 1 year deal must be one of the top 3-5 dumbest moves the last 10 years in the NHL all categories, and it’s not even up for debate.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If Fox is betting close to 50 points as a rookie, in the same role, I don’t think a peak ADA is dropping to 35 if we swap them.

And no he’s not Shattekirk.

Not unless he has multiple knee surgeries.

And drinks a potion that makes him 30 years old instead of 26.

And the Rangers face another cap crunch after shedding nearly $20 in salary.

So in other words, that’s not a great comparison.

Based on what? He had 30 points last year. You are fine criticizing me for saying Fox is legit after only playing less than 50 games but you are fine unloading the brinks truck for DeAngelo who is having a career year in a contract season, up until this season his peak was 30 points, maybe he gets the contract and takes his foot off the gas, it happens every year to someone after a contract year.