Rockets owner hasn’t given up on dream of Houston NHL team (mod: Houston thread)

[Bookie21]

Its not going to be the same building. Only the roof is staying everything under that roof is brand new from scratch.

I get that. I'm saying it's an ugly roof, and cesspool area.... and to boot it's costing an extra $300 million to save that dump

 

[StreetHawk]

I get that. I'm saying it's an ugly roof, and cesspool area.... and to boot it's costing an extra $300 million to save that dump

Seattle City Council got OVG to meet their demands. Well played by them.

Seattle Center needed a massive upgrade. Seattle city still owns the land per the agreement with OVG. OVG renovates it and operates its. Get full revenues from the arena.

So, the tradeoff for the city was that they lose whatever revenue streams that they would normally get (can use the past several years post Sonics to see how well they do), and the costs of up-keeping the arena. But, the arena was due for a massive capital investment, so they save those costs.

So, pass that investment off to OVG but can make up for it in other ways once the arena is completed (all the jobs during that 2 years of construction), plus future NHL team, with the possibility of an NBA team down the line, etc.

City council didn't really want to approve an arena in the Sodo district or anywhere else, because if they did, they will either have to sell off the Seattle Center, but with the roof being declared historic, what options are there for the building to become? Can't knock it down to build office towers or condos. So, the ongoing costs of maintaining it with a new arena someone else in the city didn't make sense for them.

 

[Rob]

I don’t blame him for not wanting to overpay for a franchise. Arizona has already been mentioned for obvious reasons. Florida has been reliant on tax payers money to stay afloat. He is smart to wait to see what happens with those two failing franchises.

 

[TheLegend]

I don’t blame him for not wanting to overpay for a franchise. Arizona has already been mentioned for obvious reasons. Florida has been reliant on tax payers money to stay afloat. He is smart to wait to see what happens with those two failing franchises.

Well he can wait as long as he wants..... he ain't getting either.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Well he can wait as long as he wants..... he ain't getting either.

The league would be in a bad spot if they ever gave up on the South Florida market there is a lot of potential in the Miami area.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I don’t blame him for not wanting to overpay for a franchise. Arizona has already been mentioned for obvious reasons. Florida has been reliant on tax payers money to stay afloat. He is smart to wait to see what happens with those two failing franchises.

and neither have an out clause, Rob Broward County saw to that with the Panthers and that option cannot be exercised until 2023 at the earliest

 

[gstommylee]

Seattle City Council got OVG to meet their demands. Well played by them.

Seattle Center needed a massive upgrade. Seattle city still owns the land per the agreement with OVG. OVG renovates it and operates its. Get full revenues from the arena.

So, the tradeoff for the city was that they lose whatever revenue streams that they would normally get (can use the past several years post Sonics to see how well they do), and the costs of up-keeping the arena. But, the arena was due for a massive capital investment, so they save those costs.

So, pass that investment off to OVG but can make up for it in other ways once the arena is completed (all the jobs during that 2 years of construction), plus future NHL team, with the possibility of an NBA team down the line, etc.

City council didn't really want to approve an arena in the Sodo district or anywhere else, because if they did, they will either have to sell off the Seattle Center, but with the roof being declared historic, what options are there for the building to become? Can't knock it down to build office towers or condos. So, the ongoing costs of maintaining it with a new arena someone else in the city didn't make sense for them.

The reason why OVG plan happened and other didn't it came down to one had a clear path to a team with an actually ownership group with the $$$ for a team from the league that actually wants to be here where has the other kept insisting that they will only built it after a NBA team gets secured (which was never going to happen).

Everyone knew that the arena for key arena redo had to be 100% private from the start. The city was never going to say no to OVG especially not with the NHL knocking. What matters the most is OVG got through the state environmental review process with out anyone suing and in Seattle that is a really huge deal.

I get that. I'm saying it's an ugly roof, and cesspool area.... and to boot it's costing an extra $300 million to save that dump

And where else was the arena suppose to go to if the only other plan was stuck due to being locked in with the NBA in which the league wasn't gonna give a team anytime soon. The only option was outside of Seattle leaving Seattle with a white elephant arena at Seattle Center.

 

[gstommylee]

I don’t blame him for not wanting to overpay for a franchise. Arizona has already been mentioned for obvious reasons. Florida has been reliant on tax payers money to stay afloat. He is smart to wait to see what happens with those two failing franchises.

If Flordia has to move it'll be to quebec not Houston in order to keep the 16/16 geographical alignment.

 

[gstommylee]

Well he can wait as long as he wants..... he ain't getting either.

And if he can't why would anyone else having any better luck? Quebec fat chance they'll pay 650m and no the NHL isn't going to just accept a 500m check from them when they gotten 650m from Seattle if they insist in in that 650m price tag. If either team has to move it won't be for 650m.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

And if he can't why would anyone else having any better luck? Quebec fat chance they'll pay 650m and no the NHL isn't going to just accept a 500m check from them when they gotten 650m from Seattle if they insist in in that 650m price tag. If either team has to move it won't be for 650m.

The league does not Want/Need Quebec city it does nothing for their footprint or any tv deals if anything it makes the Habs Territory smaller.

 

[gstommylee]

The league does not Want/Need Quebec city it does nothing for their footprint or any tv deals if anything it makes the Habs Territory smaller.

If the league has to relocate a team they would to quebec. Huge difference compared to expansion.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

If the league has to relocate a team they would to quebec. Huge difference compared to expansion.

I thought i read somewhere that the league was not that impressed with
Videotron Center It could have been around the time where they where waiting for Seattle to act though.

 

[gstommylee]

I thought i read somewhere that the league was not that impressed with
Videotron Center It could have been around the time where they where waiting for Seattle to act though.

NHL didn't want to have a 17th eastern time zone team while only having 15 western teams. It was more of geographical balance issue that there wasn't much support for. I still think quebec will end up with a team at some point via relocation but as long as the relocation still keep its 16/16 geographically aligned.

 

[Rob]

and neither have an out clause, Rob Broward County saw to that with the Panthers and that option cannot be exercised until 2023 at the earliest

I know. That is only four years away.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I know. That is only four years away.

and it's not likely the Panthers are going anywhere, much less the legalities unless BB& T Center is declared obsolete, much like what the Suns are going through at US Airways Center

 

[MNNumbers]

and it's not likely the Panthers are going anywhere, much less the legalities unless BB& T Center is declared obsolete, much like what the Suns are going through at US Airways Center

I'm not aware of any out clause which pertains to BBT being declared obsolete. Please elaborate, with links.

That said, the cost to break the lease in 2023 is something like 72M, which decreases with the years after that. So, one did not expect the team to buy the lease out soon

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I'm not aware of any out clause which pertains to BBT being declared obsolete. Please elaborate, with links.

That said, the cost to break the lease in 2023 is something like 72M, which decreases with the years after that. So, one did not expect the team to buy the lease out soon

Legend can tell you more about the 'obsolete' portion, but in general terms, that's the only way the Suns can break the existing lease in Phoenix..... why Florida is the scapegoat market once you know what the deal is there, why are they being brought up at all

 

[93LEAFS]

and videotron wants the nordiques for the nordiques. they didnt build it as a permanent home for cirque du soleil or for celine dion's non vegas residence. its not tied to a freaking casino or a shopping mall. the market wants the NHL and they don't want anything more than the NHL

And people keep acting like the sonics is some minor issue, that they are NOT the primary draw or driving force. Sure, the hockey team will get there first and will be number a hit in the market ( certainly behind the seahawks) UNTIL the sonics come back. how long is that gonna take ? you think long enough to establish themselves as a stand alone draw ? when the sonics do come back, you think this doesnt affect their standing ? you dont see shades of the thrashers/hawks in this ?

and although the jets leaving initally was, at least in part, to things that the owners could not control, make no mistake about it. winnipeg STAYED a hockey market without the jets. no one EVER questioned whether a team would be supported there. They made adjustements to their market ( small rink) that were appropriate to their market.

that question about continued support STILL exists for other current teams. If quebec gets a team, you think they have a problem filling the arena from the jump ? if you do, you are wrong

Filling the arena no. Making significant money off of corporate boxes and a sizeable tv deal? Absolutely they’ll have some issues. In many ways they’d leach off the Canadian national TV deal that is primarily driven by the Leafs and MTL.

 

[zetajerk]

I know. That is only four years away.

Are you marking the days off on your calendar?

 

[TheLegend]

I'm not aware of any out clause which pertains to BBT being declared obsolete. Please elaborate, with links.

That said, the cost to break the lease in 2023 is something like 72M, which decreases with the years after that. So, one did not expect the team to buy the lease out soon

Vincent Viola isn’t worried. Nor is he going to unload the Panthers.

Quebec City has a junior team (Remparts) playing in Videotron Centre and they can barely sell half the lower bowl at $16-18 (CAD) per game (been perusing their Ticketmaster port lately). This of course doesn’t take walk up sales into account.

But for a reportedly rabid hockey fanbase they aren’t doing themselves any favors right now. I get it isn’t the NHL but the optics are simply not good for someone to invest in a franchise there, expansion or otherwise.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Vincent Viola isn’t worried. Nor is he going to unload the Panthers.

Quebec City has a junior team (Remparts) playing in Videotron Centre and they can barely sell half the lower bowl at $16-18 (CAD) per game (been perusing their Ticketmaster port lately). This of course doesn’t take walk up sales into account.

But for a reportedly rabid hockey fanbase they aren’t doing themselves any favors right now. I get it isn’t the NHL but the optics are simply not good for someone to invest in a franchise there, expansion or otherwise.

the Remparts have always been there, even when pro hockey was in QC, though, whether it was a Canadiens affiliate, for the most part, the bottom line is there enough of a fanbase to sustain a franchise, TL, THAT was the argument given to Quebec City as far back as 2002, because in essence, the fanbase ran the pro franchise out of town, much like how Lowell is strictly a college town, the Devils were told to move on from Tsongas Center, and sadly, the same optics are there in QC

 

[MNNumbers]

Legend can tell you more about the 'obsolete' portion, but in general terms, that's the only way the Suns can break the existing lease in Phoenix..... why Florida is the scapegoat market once you know what the deal is there, why are they being brought up at all

BB&T has nothing to do with the Suns and Phoenix. Legend doesn't know any more about Florida than I do.

You are the one who said that BB&T in Sunrise has an obsolete clause. I simply asked you to verify that. Can you? Please. I would love to know about it.

And, to re-iterate....
Regardless of whether Viola is worried or not....regardless of whether QC is a good destination or not...
The buyout in Sunrise is 72M in 2024 and 2025 as far as I remember. That is a very heavy fee, which decreases over the next few years after that (entire agreement expires in 2028). So, the Panthers are not going anywhere until the buyout becomes less, even if they DID want to.

 

[Mightygoose]

BB&T has nothing to do with the Suns and Phoenix. Legend doesn't know any more about Florida than I do.

You are the one who said that BB&T in Sunrise has an obsolete clause. I simply asked you to verify that. Can you? Please. I would love to know about it.

And, to re-iterate....
Regardless of whether Viola is worried or not....regardless of whether QC is a good destination or not...
The buyout in Sunrise is 72M in 2024 and 2025 as far as I remember. That is a very heavy fee, which decreases over the next few years after that (entire agreement expires in 2028). So, the Panthers are not going anywhere until the buyout becomes less, even if they DID want to.

The opt out can occur after 100 million dollars in losses over the first 7 years of the revised agreement.

Broward County passes Panthers lease agreement for BB&T Center

I'm not aware if they can opt out every year from 2023 onwards or does declining the opt out commits them to the end of the lease, granted it's only 5 year later.

 

[MNNumbers]

The opt out can occur after 100 million dollars in losses over the first 7 years of the revised agreement.

Broward County passes Panthers lease agreement for BB&T Center

I'm not aware if they can opt out every year from 2023 onwards or does declining the opt out commits them to the end of the lease, granted it's only 5 year later.

https://www.broward.org/Arena/Documents/ExecutiveSummary10-13-15.pdf

On page 17 you will find the numbers. The right to terminate exists after year 8 - which is 2023. There must be 100M cumulative losses, but they also have to PAY Broward County because of continuing debt on the arena.
Payment:
2024 season - 72M
2025 season - 64M
2026 season - 56M
2027 season - 48M
2028 season - 40M
And, after the 2028 season the current lease ends.

 

[Mightygoose]

https://www.broward.org/Arena/Documents/ExecutiveSummary10-13-15.pdf

On page 17 you will find the numbers. The right to terminate exists after year 8 - which is 2023. There must be 100M cumulative losses, but they also have to PAY Broward County because of continuing debt on the arena.
Payment:
2024 season - 72M
2025 season - 64M
2026 season - 56M
2027 season - 48M
2028 season - 40M
And, after the 2028 season the current lease ends.

Appreciate the breakdown. Yeah, it's still a pricey endeavor to break early even if Viola wants out beforehand. That would have to be factored into a sale to Fertitta or Quebecor if it came to that.