Speculation: Roberto Luongo might be retiring - will we be subject to a recapture penalty?

[Blue and Green]

LTIR isn't necessarily Florida's best option with Luongo. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding as to how LTIR relief works and what it accomplishes (and doesn't accomplish). Florida is going to do what is best for Florida, not what is best for Vancouver.

 

[FroshaugFan2]

LTIR isn't necessarily Florida's best option with Luongo. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding as to how LTIR relief works and what it accomplishes (and doesn't accomplish). Florida is going to do what is best for Florida, not what is best for Vancouver.

What are Florida's options if Luongo doesn't want to officially retire?

They can't force him to retire. He has a no trade clause, so they can't threaten a trade. If they want him off their roster they can waive him and demote him to the AHL, buy him out, or put him on LTIR.

 

[StreetHawk]

What are Florida's options if Luongo doesn't want to officially retire?

They can't force him to retire. He has a no trade clause, so they can't threaten a trade. If they want him off their roster they can waive him and demote him to the AHL, buy him out, or put him on LTIR.

Lu would have to report to the A if he were demoted otherwise Florida moves to void his contract like NJ didnwith Kovy which triggers recapture. Lu does Not have a NMC.

Lu appears to have a MNTC with a 5 team list. Some extra wording about when the team needs to ask for a list but it does not appear to be a full ntc.

I don’t see Lu playing for another organization.

A trade to another team then a buyout might be a solution. Cash wise it’s $2.4 mill of his remainder to get almost $14 million in dead cap for the next 3 years if you’re a cap floor team.

I think the Panthers want to do right by Lu. He’s still the most recognizable Panther.

 

[Blue and Green]

What are Florida's options if Luongo doesn't want to officially retire?

They can't force him to retire. He has a no trade clause, so they can't threaten a trade. If they want him off their roster they can waive him and demote him to the AHL, buy him out, or put him on LTIR.

Maybe they ask him to retire as a player and offer to put him on the payroll as an advisor or PR guy in perpetuity. He lives there year-round anyway.

Maybe they leverage the Canucks' cap recapture exposure to get them into a 3-way cap-dump deal with Ottawa, where Luongo agrees to waive his NTC on the agreement that he will never have to report to the Senators, and the Canucks chip in with part of the asset compensation to Ottawa for taking the contract. The remaining unretained portion of his salary only totals about $3M so Ottawa would be interested if the asset compensation was satisfactory.

 

[M2Beezy]

Luongo aint that cold. It would hurt the Canucks fans, who still love himm. It wouldnt hurt Gillis or AV or Torts or anyone from the org whose LONG gone hes still mad at

 

[sting101]

Does this guy look injured to you ?

Stole my dance moves.

 

[StreetHawk]

Joffrey Lupul failed a physical administered by a doctor chosen by the NHL.

It would look pretty bad on the league and Leafs if he “passed” a physical.

It only came about because of his comments on social media.

 

[Blue and Green]

It would look pretty bad on the league and Leafs if he “passed” a physical.

It only came about because of his comments on social media.

Hossa didn't make any such comments on social media and the league also independently investigated his skin condition before deeming it legitimate. It was suggested that the league had let the Leafs get away with medical skullduggery and that wasn't the case.

 

[me2]

$333,333 per year for 4 years is the $ cost of buying out Luongo for the last 2 years of his contract (cap hits $4.666m $4.666m $333k $333K). Money wise it isn't much. Vancouver would pick up some of that too. It isn't much, Florida could handle that much, even a team like Arizona or Ottawa. A smart GM might offer to take one of their minor cap dumps ($1-2m) to offset $333K/y so it won't even cost them real money, throw them a mid pick and everyone is a winner.

There are just so many ways of dealing with the Luongo situation it should not be a worry to a competently run team.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

$333,333 per year for 4 years is the $ cost of buying out Luongo for the last 2 years of his contract (cap hits $4.666m $4.666m $333k $333K). Money wise it isn't much. Vancouver would pick up some of that too. It isn't much, Florida could handle that much, even a team like Arizona or Ottawa. A smart GM might offer to take one of their minor cap dumps ($1-2m) to offset $333K/y so it won't even cost them real money, throw them a mid pick and everyone is a winner.

There are just so many ways of dealing with the Luongo situation it should not be a worry to a competently run team.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

2.8M x 3yrs for a retiree? No worse value than most jb signings.

 

[StreetHawk]

2.8M x 3yrs for a retiree? No worse value than most jb signings.

You would also offset the current $800k rentention by that amount. So it’s a net increase of dead cap of $2 million.

Panthers would also take a hit if Lu retired so if they decide that they need space to go hunting for the 2 Russians they can’t affoed it either especially with Reimer still under contract for 2 more years with a SB due next July.

 

[Seattle Totems]

I remember the league allowing the worst offending teams to buy out contracts so they could fit under the cap when a new cba came into effect. Funny how the NHL only enforces cap penalties for some organizations.

 

[Fire Benning]

I remember the league allowing the worst offending teams to buy out contracts so they could fit under the cap when a new cba came into effect. Funny how the NHL only enforces cap penalties for some organizations.

There was a buyout amnesty where every team got 2 buyouts with no cost.

 

[Hit the post]

There was a buyout amnesty where every team got 2 buyouts with no cost.

Unless they develop suddenly a "skin condition" after how many decades.

 

[Seattle Totems]

My point is there is a lack of consistency. Some organizations seem to get away with things while others dont.

 

[belair]

No one has challenged the retroactive nature of the recapture penalty rule in court. Once lawyers get involved, I suspect the league may look for a "mutually beneficial" way out.

I've been waiting for a team to get dinged for one of these contracts that risks these penalties. Right now I'm convinced that the league is absolutely fine with teams avoiding these penalties by abusing the LTIR system.

 

[ddawg1950]

I've been waiting for a team to get dinged for one of these contracts that risks these penalties. Right now I'm convinced that the league is absolutely fine with teams avoiding these penalties by abusing the LTIR system.

Understood. But you may have a long wait.

These "cheaty" contracts were legally signed and accepted by the league at the time. The recapture penalty was added later.

I believe the league realizes it is in a legally vulnerable position and the ad hoc recapture penalty would not withstand a court challenge.

So the league continually finds ways to give an out to vulnerable teams. The Luongo situation seems to be moving already towards a LTIR solution.

 

[belair]

Understood. But you may have a long wait.

These "cheaty" contracts were legally signed and accepted by the league at the time. The recapture penalty was added later.

I believe the league realizes it is in a legally vulnerable position and the ad hoc recapture penalty would not withstand a court challenge.

So the league continually finds ways to give an out to vulnerable teams. The Luongo situation seems to be moving already towards a LTIR solution.

I don't completely disagree. But why have the written rule if the league never intended to enforce it?

 

[StreetHawk]

I don't completely disagree. But why have the written rule if the league never intended to enforce it?

Likely to appease the complaining parties. Players don't simply retire (like their original intentions a decade ago when they signed), but due to the recapture rule, they will be paid their full amount rather than leave $3 - $4 million on the table to NOT play those final 3 years of their contract. Their contract pretty much ends up on LTIR for some team.

When the NHL allowed Pronger's deal to be traded despite him being on LTIR with concussion symptoms, they just ensured that the big spending teams could offload those contracts to cap floor teams. So, win win all around.

 

[Blue and Green]

They've enforced other recapture penalties (Richards, Kovalchuk). And I think the league could simply point to the fact that the owners signed the CBA which included the cap recapture changes.

If anyone doubts what progressive skin disorders can do to a person's life, read this story where former NHLer Tom Reid details the extreme discomfort of his condition.

Blackhawks’ Marian Hossa to Miss N.H.L. Season With a Skin Disorder

"The irritation forced Reid to sleep in a wooden, straight-back chair because he would not deal with the pain that came with sleeping in a bed."

With a bit of proactive manoeuvring the Canucks should be able to emerge with only a slight loss from the situation, if necessary.

 

[NoShowWilly]

it'd definitely suck if he did retire but at least we'd get our retention spot back if we needed it.

 

[StreetHawk]

They've enforced other recapture penalties (Richards, Kovalchuk). And I think the league could simply point to the fact that the owners signed the CBA which included the cap recapture changes.

If anyone doubts what progressive skin disorders can do to a person's life, read this story where former NHLer Tom Reid details the extreme discomfort of his condition.

Blackhawks’ Marian Hossa to Miss N.H.L. Season With a Skin Disorder

"The irritation forced Reid to sleep in a wooden, straight-back chair because he would not deal with the pain that came with sleeping in a bed."

With a bit of proactive manoeuvring the Canucks should be able to emerge with only a slight loss from the situation, if necessary.

Kovy left for the KHL. LA tried to terminate Richards' contract. No one else has a recapture penalty applied. Hossa, Zetterberg, Franzen are on LTIR. Others like Bryz, Lecavalier, Hoff were bought out under the amnesty clause.

 

[Blue and Green]

Kovy left for the KHL. LA tried to terminate Richards' contract. No one else has a recapture penalty applied. Hossa, Zetterberg, Franzen are on LTIR. Others like Bryz, Lecavalier, Hoff were bought out under the amnesty clause.

The cap recapture has been enforced elsewhere and the owners as a group agreed to it as part of the CBA. If Luongo has a valid LTIR claim, good for the Canucks. But the idea that cap recapture wouldn't hold up to a legal challenge, I find that notion highly debatable.

 

[ddawg1950]

The cap recapture has been enforced elsewhere and the owners as a group agreed to it as part of the CBA. If Luongo has a valid LTIR claim, good for the Canucks. But the idea that cap recapture wouldn't hold up to a legal challenge, I find that notion highly debatable.

It is highly debatable. And perhaps an expensive legal proceeding at the center of said debate.