Risto leading league with minus-37

[member 311261]

Rasmus Ristolainen is running away with the league +/- race in the negative direction with a minus 37. The next closest is minus 30. Say what you want about the stat, but the size of that lead says something.

Is it coaching?

Click to read more...

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Its the entire garbage team. Dahlin is -16 since game 50. He also plays 4 minutes less a game. Everyone knows Risto is not a Scott Stevens but JC it would be nice if there was more then 1 or 2 decent dmen on the roster for once in his career. Gorges, Scandella, McCabe what other amazing LHD are there?

Instead of trying to trade Risto why not target a good defensive LHD to partner with him and play 20- 22 minutes a night instead of 25+ every game with god awful partners the last 4 seasons?

 

[GameMisconduct]

Instead of trying to trade Risto why not target a good defensive LHD to partner with him and play 20- 22 minutes a night instead of 25+ every game with god awful partners the last 4 seasons?

Or do something even simpler and obvious (except for our coach) and avoid constantly playing him the aforementioned anchors.

Risto has faults and I get as frustrated with them as anyone, but he is also clearly a victim of The Housley effect TM wherein a player is consistently put in a position that does little to optimize their strengths/weaknesses.

 

[Chainshot]

Same issue for the last four years - too many minutes against hard competition for his abilities. The commentary to draw down his ToI from the GM has not manifested with the coach. The partner who in a limited sample was best for his game in terms of shot share was Pilut and that experiment didn't last long before he was banished.

Risto is an easy target. Beating on him and not looking at it with any nuance is easy. To borrow from the feuding Leaf front office:

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Play him with competent players who make up a competent D corps. Then give his pairing sensible minutes /deployment.

Or trade him for a better RD like Jacob Trouba.

Do not trade him for anything less such as a 'top 6 forward' or futures.

It's pretty simple. These guys who love & obsess over the stats do not take into account context a lot of the time. I'm pretty sure they spend longer looking at spreadsheets & charts than actually watching the game.

 

[BananaSquad]

He sucks. Can’t wait to see him go.

 

[Chainshot]

I'd be curious to know what his ENGA adjusted +/- is like over the last two years at least. They gave up what, 22 last year and I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the ice for all of them.

 

[Jim Bob]

He sucks. Can’t wait to see him go.

I am worried that Risto will get the ROR treatment this summer. He will get moved for a 1st and a cap dump or two with the idea that he is so bad that it will be addition by subtraction.

But, there will be no move to actually replace his minutes with someone who is better than he is and the team is worse off because of the void that is created.

I have no issue with trading Ristolainen if it is a part of a series of off season moves that make the team better.

However, given how the ROR trade went down and the lack of moves to shore up the center depth, I am not optimistic that Botterill can trade away Ristolainen and improve the defensive depth to the point that the team improves.

 

[Husko]

Just like Myers, he’s been consistently miscast for years. His skill set is that of an offensive defenseman. He’s much closer to Brian campbell than Jay mckee. Too bad for years he’s been used like the old McKee/Warrener line.

 

[sufferer]

I'd trade Ristolainen for any defenseman whose of similar age but plays a polar opposite type of game. For whatever offense Risto inherently brings (I'm not convinced that what he does at the point on PP1 is anything special), it's just about nullified by what a complete liability he's proven to be defensively and in transition, whether it's with 25 minutes of ice time or 20. I'd even add if need be to get a Jonas Brodin or Josh Manson level of defender for him. Dahlin and Montour (maybe even Pilut) are capable of filling whatever offensive void left behind.

 

[OkimLom]

Play him with competent players who make up a competent D corps. Then give his pairing sensible minutes /deployment.

Or trade him for a better RD like Jacob Trouba.

Do not trade him for anything less such as a 'top 6 forward' or futures.

It's pretty simple. These guys who love & obsess over the stats do not take into account context a lot of the time. I'm pretty sure they spend longer looking at spreadsheets & charts than actually watching the game.

Actually watching him play defense though, it's the one time where Plus/Minus actually mirror his play.

I know it's been brought up about how the Sabres play zone, and if a player loses their guy/assignment, they go into man, too many times, it's Risto who loves to play man. Not only that but his hits that often happen AFTER the puck by him, already starts off their Zone play off terribly. Then there is the lack of physical contact of forwards at 5 on 5 and on the PK with guys around the crease. He's horrible at defending. His offense is nowhere, where it needs to be, to justify his bad defensive game. 30 games without a goal, pointless in 18 of those games, it's not good enough. I feel like Risto is this myth that some fans painted him to be that he has never lived up to. They say he's a physical beast, but his physical play is usually after the whistle or 2 seconds too late in the play. They say he's a minute eater, but he plays worse when he is tasked with playing 24+ minutes. He's a decent 2nd pairing defenseman with a proper system and proper coaching that can limit his minutes.

I'm okay with keeping him, because I think it's as simple as taking away his responsibilities, his minutes, and correcting the system that the team plays, and spreading out the minutes. His IQ is what is holding him back in the league.

 

[MrMaster]

I came to the conclusion that Risto has been mismanaged by two coaches now, so it's not easy to evaluate his potential - still young with upside imo.

 

[Willgamesh]

If Risto had Pilut all year it would be way less. Too bad garbage Housley can never let any pairs play together for a consistent amount of time to build chemistry.

 

[Chainshot]

I am worried that Risto will get the ROR treatment this summer. He will get moved for a 1st and a cap dump or two with the idea that he is so bad that it will be addition by subtraction.

But, there will be no move to actually replace his minutes with someone who is better than he is and the team is worse off because of the void that is created.

I have no issue with trading Ristolainen if it is a part of a series of off season moves that make the team better.

However, given how the ROR trade went down and the lack of moves to shore up the center depth, I am not optimistic that Botterill can trade away Ristolainen and improve the defensive depth to the point that the team improves.

That's already the narrative springing up with PHam and some of the TBN/ex-TBN guys.

The non-contributive player on defense I keep seeing is Bogosian and his $5.1M salary for... what again? Snappy patter on a now-deleted social media platform? Beards? Honorary IR threads? Blown coverage and stick-waving? I know Ristolainen can contribute some offense from the point on the PP, can activate and get below the dots on a pinch, hit some people and eat a lot of minutes if he has to. He's not good at eating all those minutes -- Zip posted the numbers when he's over 23:00 minutes a night and it's not good. So... why keep doing it? Honestly, why not run Risto out with Dahlin in those nearly 60% OZS and 22 minutes a night and see what f***ing happens.

But no, not only do they not do that which might start to help Risto's confidence and pump his play which could also help his trade value, he gets caved and his coach just keeps putting him out there to get caved. It's ridiculous the lack of nuance to this front office.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

If Risto had Pilut all year it would be way less. Too bad garbage Housley can never let any pairs play together for a consistent amount of time to build chemistry.

This might be the biggest problem with Housley that no one talks about.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Tampa wouldn’t have been rumored to be interested in Risto if he was pure garbage. Sure, they may not have been offering much, but they were probably looking for cheap deal because they know they could utilize him more effectively

 

[Nedo801]

Signing Montour means Risto have even less meaning in this team as I see it. He tries to add offense but there are 2 D better at it right now and with Pilut playing I would say there are 3 better offensive D's.

If he just played a very easy but hard defense game and 5 less minutes a game maybe it would be better....

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Tampa wouldn’t have been rumored to be interested in Risto if he was pure garbage. Sure, they may not have been offering much, but they were probably looking for cheap deal because they know they could utilize him more effectively

I agree with this 100%. A guy like Risto is a really good player. He just isn't a top pairing defenseman. If we had a tampa's blue line, he'd be a star. If Tampa had a acquired him for peanuts, they'd have looked like geniuses.

 

[OkimLom]

I came to the conclusion that Risto has been mismanaged by two coaches now, so it's not easy to evaluate his potential - still young with upside imo.

I would've said 3 coaches, but his first full year here I noticed Myers/Bogo played more minutes than him on average and he was playing at about 21 minutes a game, and still had horrible numbers. His best year, interestingly enough was 2016-2017 under Bylsma.

 

[sincerity0]

Ristos deficiencies are well documented. His biggest weakness IMO is his inability to work the puck out of the D Zone in transition. Given that Risto has struggled with this through 3 coaches so it’s pretty obvious that transition is going to never be his strong suit.

In today’s NHL transition play is probably the single most important trait a D Man can have. For an extreme example watch Dahlin or Eichel transition out of the zone and compare that to Risto. Risto will often get the puck and immediately put it high off the glass, and the opposing team brings it right back. Dahlin is so good at finding a winger moving up ice or skates it out himself. Risto is completely incapable of consistently transitioning and therefore can never be a top pairing Dman. Period.

It’s really unfortunate because it’s likely that Risto is going to get moved and go somewhere else and be a good second pairing defenseman. Botterill called him a top 4 d when he got hired but Housley has never used him in that role. Risto is still playing a roll like he’s Erik Karlsson or Drew Doughty. Whether that’s because the staff believes he can handle it or they believe they don’t have another defenseman to pick up those minutes it’s still entirely unacceptable that he’s in his current role.

No matter what stats you look at, counting stats or advanced, you’ll see a player being entirely mismanaged. It’s sad, really.

 

[GellMann]

I am worried that Risto will get the ROR treatment this summer. He will get moved for a 1st and a cap dump or two with the idea that he is so bad that it will be addition by subtraction.

But, there will be no move to actually replace his minutes with someone who is better than he is and the team is worse off because of the void that is created.

I have no issue with trading Ristolainen if it is a part of a series of off season moves that make the team better.

However, given how the ROR trade went down and the lack of moves to shore up the center depth, I am not optimistic that Botterill can trade away Ristolainen and improve the defensive depth to the point that the team improves.

With the way they actively use Risto, if they get a worse hockey player as a replacement but don't give them 25 minutes a game, there's almost no chance we're worse off, because putting Risto out there is a guarantee to get caved in no matter what at this point. It's like ROR in a different way - "who will take those minutes?" Literally, those minutes shouldn't exist unless you have prime Ryan Suter. The Penguins managed to win a cup without that player. Pretty much any good team without a Norris candidate does a way better job of distributing the load than our coaches have over the last few years.

Risto causes the problems himself by being content to hand the puck to the other team way too often. I tried counting this stuff re-watching games last offseason, and he happily flipped the puck to the other teams' defensemen with plenty of space himself more than twice as often per zone exit attempt than any other bad sabres defenseman. That's his own choice, it's not a product of anything other than that. It leads to goals against often. I've only watched a couple of the last 10 games, but in Chicago he had Montour wide open 5 feet away and instead peppered the puck around the boards to the Chicago D. We never touched it again, they scored within 30 seconds, and he wasn't even on the ice for the minus.

So, we could make things better, but what we'd be doing is minimizing Risto's negative effect on the team, not saving Risto from a situation that's making him a bad hockey player he wouldn't be otherwise.

I'd be fine with keeping him to play in a reduced, offensive role with Pilut, who is the only NHL player in history he's ever had positive splits of any stats, from goals to expected goals to corsi etc with, and I'd be fine with a Miller/Cernak or Miller/Foote(sounds like lightning fans are appalled by the idea of the latter) split.

 

[GellMann]

Nick Leddy had a -42 last season and is better this year. I don't think Risto's value is totally shot by this, hopefully a team like Tampa just thinks we're stupid about it and they can use him better.

 

[Jim Bob]

Signing Montour means Risto have even less meaning in this team as I see it. He tries to add offense but there are 2 D better at it right now and with Pilut playing I would say there are 3 better offensive D's.

If he just played a very easy but hard defense game and 5 less minutes a game maybe it would be better....

Even with Montour, how are you dividing up the 60 minutes a game on the right side of defense minus Ristolainen?

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

I sort of agree with both sides. Risto has been terribly mismanaged but he's also a liability in some crucial aspects of a defensemans job, notably transitioning the puck out of his zone. His decision making is not good.

He should be play much less minutes in a sheltered offensive role. But less TOI and defensive responsibility isn't magically going to make him smarter. It'd mostly be mitigating the damage he does defensively and in transition.

If we keep him, reduce his minutes a lot, pair him with Pilut with more offensive deployment, I'm fine with that. If we trade him for a good young defensive RHD I'm fine with that too.

What I'm not okay with is continuing to deploy him the way idiot coaches have been doing the past four years and let him get shelled. And even worse would be trading him for a ROR type trade return that doesn't do anything to replace him.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

I'd be fine with a Miller/Cernak or Miller/Foote(sounds like lightning fans are appalled by the idea of the latter) split.

That's pretty much the return I'd want from TB. But if Cernak or Foote aren't on the table and the highlight of the trade is Miller, no thanks.