Risto and Maatta starring as black and white

[Murky]

It occurred to me that these two young Finnish defenders are like ying and yang or black and white - which one is which does not matter.

Risto is good in the eye test and carries a huge burden against the best night in night out. But he fails in the numbers and the results, looking like a third pair guy judging by his stats.

Maatta is fumbling all over while slowly moving around looking like Bambi on ice and a deer in the headlights at the same time. Yet, here he is. Getting results and having decent numbers, too.

What's the point then? I don't know. It just occurred to me while browsing the Sabres board.

The stats have a long way to go in hockey.

Click to read more...

 

[WilliamNylander]

I would take Maatta but don't discount the Bylsma effect either. I think Risto would look better with a better coach. Lots of those stats seem bad because of the systems in my opinion.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

Very misleading title, but it's a really good point that you're making

 

[JetsUK]

From the OP, I was expecting duelling pianos, a vaudeville routine, a mime-off, a pop duet, "Ebony and Ivory" updated for millennials.

Instead we have two young Finnish defenders whose eye-test belies their stats.

 

[SnoopDogg]

Ristolainen is untouchable, and Maatta is a bust haha

 

[Aladyyn]

"Ristolainen gets bad results" is false. His results were fine given what his role was.

He wasn't supposed to care about total shot attempts, all that Dan Bylsma was concerned with were scoring chances and in that area Ristolainen's results were solid.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Once we can cut Risto's minutes his numbers will improve. Last two seasons he has looked gassed second half of the season. Bylsma is a plague.

 

[ProspectsSTC]

They're both pretty much albino

Maatta does look incredibly slow but he's still a decent defenseman. I'm not sure why Risto's advanced stats point to him being subpar

 

[stevo61]

Risto has Dan Bylsma as a coach and just straight up plays too many minutes as a young guy and is so heavily relied on in every situation.
Maata is just slow and soft as butter. Looks bad most times I see him.
Context is needed when looking at those advanced stats but it for sure shows they are not perfect and nothing really beats the eye test

 

[Boxscore]

Ristolainen is significantly better than Maatta.

 

[Royal Thunder]

Ristolainen legitimately might have played the hardest minutes of any player in the NHL this past season (considering TOI, usage, matchups). He is their clear cut #1 in every situation.

At his age it's gotta be close to unprecedented in today's NHL, so it's hard to get a real good read on him just by the numbers based on that and on playing in an awful Bylsma system where they had no transition game and got caved in every night.

 

[Murky]

Very misleading title, but it's a really good point that you're making

Thanks. As far as the title goes, it seemed like a good idea at the time..

Anyway, thanks for input guys.

 

[hagelin1381]

They're both pretty much albino

Maatta does look incredibly slow but he's still a decent defenseman. I'm not sure why Risto's advanced stats point to him being subpar

Sabres get shelled in SA against when he is on the ice.. Like worse than when he is off the ice.. It's really bad. Not entirely his fault obviously, he's young, and had dan bylsma coaching him so there's only so much the poor guy could do

 

[Dubi Doo]

I would take Maatta.

Lol...

 

[BB88]

Sabres get shelled in SA against when he is on the ice.. Like worse than when he is off the ice.. It's really bad. Not entirely his fault obviously, he's young, and had dan bylsma coaching him so there's only so much the poor guy could do

Well he played against the best lines with Bylsmas system.

So what do you really expect?

 

[tsujimoto74]

Risto has Dan Bylsma as a coach and just straight up plays too many minutes as a young guy and is so heavily relied on in every situation.
Maata is just slow and soft as butter. Looks bad most times I see him.
Context is needed when looking at those advanced stats but it for sure shows they are not perfect and nothing really beats the eye test

This is what so many people miss. Risto plays 26 minutes a night, starts a lot of shifts in the D zone, and consistently faces the opponent's top scorers. On a team that was coached by Dan Bylsma. He's been used like an all-situations #1, even when the overwhelming majority of the league's true #1s play more advantageous minutes.

He's grown immensely as a player over the last few years. Competent coaching and a bit of help from the other D pairings would do wonders for the kid.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Ristolainen is untouchable, and Maatta is a bust haha

Maatta's such a bust that he's playing as the #1D on a team in the cup finals.

I also don't agree with the idea that Maatta "looks like bambi fumbling around". He's mostly unnoticeable because he's solid at what he does. He makes the simple play really well and makes an extremely strong first pass. You're seeing him engage offensively in the playoffs too, which is why he leads the Penguins defensemen in ES goals and ES points. You only really notice him when stuff like what happened in game 1 OT against the Senators happen, and of course everyone thinks he sucks because they can't remember all of the solid defensive plays and outlet passes he made prior. Ristolainen is definitely better, but Maatta is criminally underrated on this site. He's a solid middle pair defensemen that is currently playing like a #3 defensemen. If he maintains this level of play and production next year (so like a 10 goal, 30 point pace), I'd comfortably call him a #3.

 

[Son Goku]

You obviously don't watch the Penguins much if you think that's what Maatta does. He had a FEW bad games This year and now everyone wants to say he's a bust and ****. Besides Dumo I'd say he's been our best defenseman

 

[Ippenator]

Ristolainen is significantly better than Maatta.

Depends totally on which aspect of the game you are thinking of. For sure as a PP quarterback and in general an offensive minded defenseman Risto is better. But when we think of which one of them is better defensively, I honestly have to say that there is no question that Määttä is better, and in fact with a very clear margin.

Määttä is in fact a very underrated defenceman. He has excellent defensive awareness, and when it is needed he can also use his body effectively. He is definitely not soft, but he is that smart defensively that he avoids taking unnecessary risks with going too much into the physical play. Just absolutely a terrific defensive awareness, which unfortunately Risto does not have naturally even close to the level that Määttä has.

But don't take me wrong. I love Risto still as a defenceman, but I also know what his weaknesses are. I'm sure though that he will develop his defensive game still a lot. I just don't see him ever have the defensive awareness that Määttä has, but that's not a knock on Risto, as I see it that in fact very few defencemen are on Määttä's level in pure defensive awareness.

Those two seem to me in fact like an absolutely ideal defensive pair. I'm in fact very much looking forward to see them maybe play together in the Finnish national team in the future. I absolutely love both of them as young and still developing defencemen.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

As a pair they'd be dominant, I think.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

If Maatta wasn't slow as molasses I don't think people would perceive him as a bad player probably. He is really slow to be fair...(when you get outskated by Bobby Ryan...you are painfully slow.)

 

[Daeni10]

If Maatta wasn't slow as molasses I don't think people would perceive him as a bad player probably. He is really slow to be fair...(when you get outskated by Bobby Ryan...you are painfully slow.)

He is, but it wasn't always like that, but it got really bad after all the injuries he had. He got incredibly unlucky with things like freaking cancer and it really hurt his skating. But there is still a little hope he will get it back I guess. If he gets it back at some point he will be a hell of a player because he is good at pretty much everything else

 

[darcyRegier]

22 year olds don't play the minutes Risto has, I'm pretty sure he was #3-4 in the NHL in TOI/game.

Also he had Bylsma as a coach, and I really wish there was a way to describe how bad of a coach he was for the Sabres. Risto also spent a lot of time with a 23 year old d-mate in McCabe, who has a future as a solid top 4 guy but shouldn't be playing the minutes on the top pair just yet.

Also Risto is the Sabres #1 D and they really didn't even have a #2, #3, and maybe even a #4 this year, on the roster. Sabres have a legit #1 guy playing 26 minutes a night with a bunch of bottom pairing d-men. Our second best D man was McCabe who looked at times like a #2 guy but also had times where he still looked too inexperienced to be playing 20+ mins a night.

Karlsson used to have issues with his defensive game and now look at him, he's a definite top 5 player in the league right now and you can make a pretty good case for him being just behind Crosby for the 2nd best player in the NHL.

Not saying Risto will be anywhere near to Karlsson's level (never know though), but Risto had 41 points as a 21 year old D compared to Karlsson's 45 points. The 22 y/o season though is where the comparison completely ends (Karlsson's 78 to Risto's 45) but Risto is more of a 2-way guy than Karlsson is, and I think with the right coach and eased back minutes (24-25 mins a night) he should be a sure-fire 50-60 point guy with great balanced between offense and defense. Hopefully an Alex Pietrangelo type but with a slightly better offensive game and a slightly worse defensive game.

I'm fine having a 22 year old who can completely put the whole d-core on his back. Makes me excited for future Sabres playoff series.