News Article: Rethinking the Selke: Can 'Defense' as a Concept be Stretched to Include Offense

[Crafton]

1) Is there positional bias against wingers? Are they unfairly passed over?

2) Should Sidney Crosby be considered more seriously for the Selke?

3) Selke Trophy aside, can we count offense (keeping the puck in the opposing end) as defense?

Despite Crosby’s success in the faceoff circle, despite his quality of competition, despite the fact that he’s so effective down low, I wouldn’t vote for him because he’s an anticipator. He thinks so far ahead of the game that he’ll occasionally abandon his guy on a play-reading hunch so he can get a jump on it. He’s right a scary amount, but it does cost him the odd time. Bergeron, for example, isn't cheating anywhere until he's sure the Bruins have possession.

Crosby is probably in my top-10 defensive forwards based purely on his puck acquisition skills all over the ice. From his hand-eye, from his ability to pick pockets, to his ability to read plays, he gets his team the puck far more than your average forward.

Selke winner? Not mine. Great defensive forward? Absolutely.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/488307

edit: changed the title because apparently people can't handle seeing Crosby's name as a proxy for two-way play.

Click to read more...

 

[billybudd]

If Hossa was a center, he would have won one by now.

Mixed feelings about the fact that he hasn't, honestly. On the one hand, he's probably the best defensive player at wing, has been for a long, long time and deserves to be recognized for that.

On the other hand, the defensive duties of a wing are substantially easier than those of a center, unless he's often/exclusively deployed as a shadow (Jay Pandolfo once lost narrowly after being nominated as a shadow, for example, Gainey did a ton of shadow work). To my knowledge, Hossa's not been used in that capacity all that frequently, if at all.

 

[Will Hunting]

I don´t even want to think about Sid & Selke. Soo irrelevant right now with all of the issues that the Pens have.

 

[Corvidae]

Crosby has been almost non-existent defensively for the past two years, so absolutely not. Hossa, yes.

 

[Jacob]

If Crosby wasn't such a turnover machine he might warrant consideration.

 

[Fordy]

crosby like two or three years ago maybe

 

[wgknestrick]

Crosby for Selke....HA

Seriously the people who say these things would be better off just saying, "I don't know much about hockey or how to evaluate players". Crosby isn't even close to being the best defensive forward on his team, rather than the league. He was our 8th forward in GA/20 this year. That's not everything, but it also indicates that it isn't even a discussion topic.

 

[wgknestrick]

It should be Kopitar/Staal/Pavelski for the Selke

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The spirit of this trophy has been lost for years, never to be found again.

This award isn't for two-way excellence, and yet that's what has happened to it.

There are some that believe this trophy is more important than the Hart. A sad state of affairs.

Offense should not matter at all here, and yet just like a gold glove in baseball, it does.

 

[Crosbyfan]

Sid has gotten consistently better and better defensively without the puck, but takes medium risks, usually for high, but sometimes for medium or even questionable rewards when he has it on his stick...not sure Selke candidates usually do that.

He's the best two way player (driven more by offence) in the World, but that is not the definition of the Selke.

What's next...Ovechkin for Vezina?

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I don't think Sid deserves to be in the running, not in the top 5 at least, but he is a lot better defensively than people like to give him credit for. Hossa should have multiple Selkes by now, though, regardless of being a winger.

 

[Crafton]

Crosby for Selke....HA

Seriously the people who say these things would be better off just saying, "I don't know much about hockey or how to evaluate players". Crosby isn't even close to being the best defensive forward on his team, rather than the league. He was our 8th forward in GA/20 this year. That's not everything, but it also indicates that it isn't even a discussion topic.

did you even read the article? it's not so much about Crosby being awarded the Selke but rather re-positioning the award's purpose. Jags seemed to grasp the gist of this in post #9. the writer of the article himself says the Crosby just makes it into his top-10, even with this more expansive definition of the award.

 

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

No. The award is for players (mostly centers since they have a bigger responsibility) who think defense first and don't cheat up ice. Crosby does that way too often. Hossa, yeah he could be in the running but he is a winger so fairly or unfairly, it will be harder for him.

 

[Plural]

Hossa, yes. Crosby, no.

 

[Shrimper]

Crosby for the Selke? Hell no. If he did focus on that more though you'd see a change in his production most probably. Would be nice to stop the turnovers though.

 

[YinzAintBurgh*]

Crosby and Selke? Is this a joke?

Our center, 3rd defensemen is caught behind the net with his stick up his a** 95% of the time. I think it was two games ago - Fleury let in a softie but Crosby was coasting on the backcheck. He didn't even make an effort.

He's a -3 in the playoffs so his lack of defense isn't even translating into goals. That's what kills him and his line. That works in the regular season but isn't playoff hockey. He's forgot how to play "playoff" hockey.

 

[sf expat71]

Is Lehtinen the last winger to win a Selke? The award is so subjective anyway, especially if you don't take advanced stats into account. Either way, though, Bergeron is a beast defensively (rel. corsi is a good stat in this case, I think). It doesn't hurt that he chips in offensively too. OT, but who did we draft in the 2nd round in '03 anyway? Still one of the best picks (along with Weber) in the best draft, methinks.

 

[BHD]

Crosby? No.

To be honest, I don't think the award will ever go to the guy who deserves it the most. Part of it is based on reputation. There's a group of players who media people will focus on, and they'll pick the nominees from there.

 

[Sypher04]

Crosby and Selke? Is this a joke?

Our center, 3rd defensemen is caught behind the net with his stick up his a** 95% of the time. I think it was two games ago - Fleury let in a softie but Crosby was coasting on the backcheck. He didn't even make an effort.

He's a -3 in the playoffs so his lack of defense isn't even translating into goals. That's what kills him and his line. That works in the regular season but isn't playoff hockey. He's forgot how to play "playoff" hockey.

Absolutely ridiculous.

There ARE things killing Crosby's line, but it's not Crosby.

 

[VirginiaBob]

Crosby and Selke? Is this a joke?

Our center, 3rd defensemen is caught behind the net with his stick up his a** 95% of the time. I think it was two games ago - Fleury let in a softie but Crosby was coasting on the backcheck. He didn't even make an effort.

He's a -3 in the playoffs so his lack of defense isn't even translating into goals. That's what kills him and his line. That works in the regular season but isn't playoff hockey. He's forgot how to play "playoff" hockey.

Since the Selke is based on regular season play, rather than playoffs, it appears you are arguing that he is a candidate based on his regular season play?

 

[Corvidae]

The spirit of this trophy has been lost for years, never to be found again.

This award isn't for two-way excellence, and yet that's what has happened to it.

There are some that believe this trophy is more important than the Hart. A sad state of affairs.

Offense should not matter at all here, and yet just like a gold glove in baseball, it does.

Adams for Selke?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Adams for Selke?

No because he's been atrocious defensively, too.