Replacement Players Question

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by SPARTAKUS*, Feb 18, 2005.

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  1. SPARTAKUS*

    SPARTAKUS* Guest

    I have a question that I hope someone can answer. If the NHL uses replacement players can an european player let's take for exemple Kovalchuk and he decides to cross and play for the Thrashers is he allowed to do that?
    Thanks.
     
  2. Balej20*

    Balej20* Guest

    anyone can cross if they want... and thats what will most likely happen. All the players will just eventualyl cross
     
  3. Vagabond

    Vagabond Registered User

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    Judging by what happened through the NFL, my answer is yes. Otherwise, my answer has no merit at all. Take it for what it's worth. ..And if it's not, it's a major hypocrisy and will make the players look worse than they already do. The players scabbed in Europe, why is it any different for a player to cross a picket-line in the NHL?
     
  4. SPARTAKUS*

    SPARTAKUS* Guest

    Yes I agree. So all the players who would still have a contract with its respective club would be allowed to come back. Or do they have to sign a new contract?
     
  5. Balej20*

    Balej20* Guest

    i believe they use their existing contract
     
  6. SPARTAKUS*

    SPARTAKUS* Guest

    Which of the two is most likely to happend before next september. The NHL declaring impasse or a deal being struck?
     
  7. Balej20*

    Balej20* Guest

    If a deal is not struck in the next few weeks...an Impasse is much more likely in my opinion. In which case, alllll the players will cross an dyou can kiss the power of the union good bye
     
  8. SPARTAKUS*

    SPARTAKUS* Guest

    I agree with you 100%
     
  9. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    I do wonder if the union is worried as hell about this scenerio possibility. In which case they make a deal just to keep this from potentially happening, not wanting to test the strength of the union members not to cross. Live to fight another day sort of thing. Because if it comes to the players being forced to choose whether to cross the picket line and play, and many cross, that union is toast for the next 20 years or more.
     
  10. Balej20*

    Balej20* Guest

    exactly
     
  11. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Using replacements a confusing option

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=115284&hubName=nhl
     
  12. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    No, US immigration law prohibits foreign nationals from being issued work visas during a labour dispute.
     
  13. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    I would assume current NHL players (like Kovalchuk) would already have work visas in place and could cross a picket line and return as replacement players for their current teams. Would it make a difference if they were already under contract, RFAs, or UFAs?
     
  14. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    Kovalchuk is probably a bad example .. He is currently making 3 mil per year to play in Russia .. He just concluded his entry level contract at 3 years at 1.25 /season ..

    He is currently unsigned and a RFA ..

    Kovalchuk would never give up $ 3 mil to cross NHLPA Picket lines and play for scab wages as a replacement player which would be far far less then he even made earlier.

    NO motivation what so ever to do anything but play in the RSL until a NEW CBA agreement is reached and then force Atlanta to nearly triple his previous Salary or he will continue to play for 3 Mil at home in Russia ..
     
  15. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    I just used Kovalchuk as an example because a previous poster used him, so lets change it from Kovalchuk to generic-european-player-making-a-fraction-of-his-NHL-salary. If an impasse is declared, the league drops the lockout and implements whatever CBA it does, the PA challenges it and strikes, can Mr generic cross the line and play as a replacement player. Does it make a difference if he is currently under contract, an RFA, or a UFA. Does anyone know? Wetcoaster?
     
  16. Donnie D

    Donnie D Registered User

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    No one can say with any certainty what the law is in this area becuase it hasn't been tested. They could rule that the "union" isn't a union in the truest sense. As pointed out in the TSN story, the union isn't recognized in the 2 provinces that you keep citing.

    This is so gray that it would take years to litigate and by time it is resolved, Crosby will be retired. Ok, maybe not him, but about 1/3 of the current players.
     
  17. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    Let's see what ANOTHER labour lawyer has to say.



    Seems things aren't quite as cut and dry, black and white as good old Wettie would lead everyone to believe.

    From article

    It should be noted that the article does point out that this option is very risky and generally takes a negative view.
     
  18. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    I say a deal being struck
     
  19. Fredrik

    Fredrik Registered User

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    The article you are linking to talks about labour law but Wetcoaster are talking about immigration law. They aren't necessarily linked.
     
  20. Bicycle Repairman

    Bicycle Repairman Registered User

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    So then you're saying that the lockout is illegal in Quebec and British Columbia?

    I'm sure the Canadiens and Canucks players will be delighted to recieve back pay.
     
  21. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    We are not talking about whether or not replacement players could be used in BC and Quebec but the issue of whether or not immigration law would prevent foreign nationals who require work permits from playing in the US and Canada during a labour dispute. It does.

    No need for interpretation - the statutory bar is clear and it was applied during the ECHL strike several years back. No work visas in the US will be issued. No Canadians - no Europeans allowed.

    The immigration law is the same in Canada and would bar non-Canadian citizens or anyone who was not a legal permanent resident. No Europeons - no US citizens allowed.

    BTW replacement players are not that grey an area - people should actually take the time to read the law before commenting.

    During 1994 the Expos could not play "scab ball" and the law has not changed. Why???? The reports overlook the exception to the general requirement that a union must be certified to gain protection of a provincial labour code. The exception is known as "voluntary recognition" and is part of the various provincial codes. It applies where a CBA has already been reached previously and the employer has recognized the bargaining agent as has occurred with the NHL.

    That is the problem when you have reporters jumping to conclusions without knowing the law. Most sport reporters have trouble finding their way to the free eats table - legal analysis is beyond most of their capabilities with a few exceptions.

    I have dealt with this situation on several occasions in the past during multi-employer bargaining involving national and international unions. Here is the how the BC Labour Relations Board defines "voluntary recognition" and its effect which is to grant prottections and rights as if the union was in fact certified. This comes from the BC LRB Guide to the Code used by union and management practitioners:

    http://www.lrb.bc.ca/codeguide/chapter1.htm

    Since the players have signed contracts and operated under the 1994 CBA, it is pretty clear they have approved the CBA via voluntary recognition.

    No grey area. Just lack of research and grey matter when analysing the situation.
     
  22. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    First off that article does not deal with the issue I was discussing which was how immigration law would provide constraints on foreign nationals playing in the US and Canada under a replacement player regime. Try to stay with the issue.

    Secondly in BC and Quebec IMHO the "voluntary recognition" exception to the general rule requiring union certification to obtain labour code protection would be applicable as I have set out in the post above.

    An Ontario labour lawyer posting here in another thread indicated that Ontario accepts certification via voluntary recognition. Not surprising since it makes sense that if the employer and union bargaining agent have already negotiated an agreement, a formal certification as a bargaining agent appears redundant since the function of the certification vote is to determine if the agent has sufficient support from the union members to represent them and negotiate a CBA.
     
  23. Donnie D

    Donnie D Registered User

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    If it is so cut and dry, what were all those latin american players doing out there on the field playing baseball when the MLB was using replacement players? This is way beyond reading a few articles and becoming an expert. This is legal research for with a staff of experienced lawyers for months.
     
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