TSN: Reorientation Part 1: The culture of homophobia

[ranold26]

I'd rather be on a team with 20 homosexuals than be on one with 20 bigots, racists and/or xenophobes.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I'd rather be on a team with 20 homosexuals than be on one with 20 bigots, racists and/or xenophobes.

If someone is doing their job effectively, I don't care what they think so long as they keep it to themselves. People are free to think how they want.

 

[IafratesEmptyNetGoal]

At the end of the day who really cares if someone is gay. How does it effect you? Yes superstars should probably speak up about gay rights. They're made to do other crap and speak on other **** all the time. Why not gay rights?

It should be the athlete's choice to speak about what he wants to. If the athlete wants to take a stand with the team, great. If the athlete wants to take his own stand, then he shouldn't include the team with his stand and the team shouldn't include the athlete in theirs. Many NFL players partner with The United Way through the NFL and that is great, but I don't see anyone who wants to back another cause instead getting grief, and that shouldn't be the case here either.

 

[acr*]

I'd rather be on a team with 20 homosexuals than be on one with 20 bigots, racists and/or xenophobes.

I'd rather be on a team with the 20 best players, and whether they're klan members, gay, black, or Ron Paul people in their offtime shouldn't really matter as long as it doesn't make a difference on the ice.

 

[Bi Coastal Bawse*]

Wait so players should be able to say what they want?

Tim Thomas?

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Wait so players should be able to say what they want?

Tim Thomas?

He comes to mind, yes. I never cared about what he said so long as it wasn't a distraction and he played well. They can think and say what they want, just as we can! I understand people have their passions but I still just don't think it is right to force it on someone else. Maybe they agree, but less strongly and don't care to get involved? I would actually rather see athletes less involved with these types of causes since it seems really forced and targeted towards the kids who idolize them. Let them think for themselves!

 

[bb_fan]

At the end of the day who really cares if someone is gay. How does it effect you? Yes superstars should probably speak up about gay rights. They're made to do other crap and speak on other **** all the time. Why not gay rights?

Why 'should' they?

And no I don't care if someone's gay....

but then again I don't care if someones a devout Catholic (or some other religion)..... but if they are and their religion is against homosexuality, what do you care?

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Part 3:

http://www.tsn.ca/videohub/?collection=72&show=275174

 

[Alicat]

I disagree.

These individuals should take a stand for what they believe in, one side or the other or no side at all.

They should not feel any pressure to take a certain stance in order to tow the company line IMO.

Nor should their super stardom be a factor in terms of whether they decide to take a public stance at all.

We have a winner here.

Nothing is worse than being disingenuous especially when it comes to these types of issues.

 

[Artemis]

Why 'should' they?

And no I don't care if someone's gay....

but then again I don't care if someones a devout Catholic (or some other religion)..... but if they are and their religion is against homosexuality, what do you care?

Perhaps the best thing to do is watch the series, which isn't too long - each segment is about 10 minutes - and understand what organizations like You Can Play are attempting to do.

They're not forcing beliefs on anyone. They're simply asking people not to be hurtful, especially toward their own teammates.

When you see such things as Esera Tuaolo breaking down in tears, recalling that he wanted to kill himself because of what he endured growing up, it hits hard. (And personally, I can't see any religion condoning that, but that's just my opinion.)

 

[WestCoastBruinsFan]

Taking a stand against a persons sexual orientation in their workplace should be against the law. It is in mine. Keep in mind that taking a stand is much different than simply disagreeing.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Hardaway's comments were beyond ignorant but I'm glad he said them because I think they needed to be heard. He isn't the only one who feels that way. I think homosexual athletes will be accepted in time but there is still a whole lot of work to be done so that the amount of homophobic athletes decreases. Having a gay superstar would do wonders as well. It's unfortunate that this has to be a discussion topic but it's great that it is being talked about.

If there was a gay superstar he'd be more famous for being gay than for being a superstar. And I think he'd therefore probably rather keep his sexuality to himself and be just a superstar.

I'm sorry but this stuff goes way too far. Will it be wrong to call someone a wimp or a coward as well since that is correlated to homosexuality?

Straight men will always joke around with each other and suggest they are gay. Its a part of life and is normal.


I support equal rights for all however I think gay people need to be looked at as normal people not as a protected class who can never be made fun of even indirectly. There is a big difference between hate speach and good natured ribbing where the joke/punchline is suggesting a straight person is gay.

The change that needs to happen is that peoples sexuality has to become irrelevant. There are a lot of people furthermore who are attracted to both genders. I swear 80% of women I've met over the last few years like girls as well. So the proportions in men can't be far off. But if a guy dates women and has a wife/girlfriend and people find out that he likes guys as well he'll be branded as gay. So a guy can't go both ways a guy will have to either bottle it up completely or come out of the closet and be a gay person.

Its 2014 most people really don't give a **** about who others are attracted to tahts the bottom line and something that is always forgotten when the PC charade comes out.


But remember its OK for Dave Chappel to make jokes about race he does it and he is a comical genius. Richie Incongito does it and he is a hate filled monster. Those are the rules these days.

 

[bb_fan]

Perhaps the best thing to do is watch the series, which isn't too long - each segment is about 10 minutes - and understand what organizations like You Can Play are attempting to do.

They're not forcing beliefs on anyone. They're simply asking people not to be hurtful, especially toward their own teammates.

When you see such things as Esera Tuaolo breaking down in tears, recalling that he wanted to kill himself because of what he endured growing up, it hits hard. (And personally, I can't see any religion condoning that, but that's just my opinion.)

I think your taking my comments out of context. I have no idea what your comments have to do with what I said or responded to?

 

[acr*]

If there was a gay superstar he'd be more famous for being gay than for being a superstar. And I think he'd therefore probably rather keep his sexuality to himself and be just a superstar.

I'm sorry but this stuff goes way too far. Will it be wrong to call someone a wimp or a coward as well since that is correlated to homosexuality?

Straight men will always joke around with each other and suggest they are gay. Its a part of life and is normal.


I support equal rights for all however I think gay people need to be looked at as normal people not as a protected class who can never be made fun of even indirectly. There is a big difference between hate speach and good natured ribbing where the joke/punchline is suggesting a straight person is gay.

The change that needs to happen is that peoples sexuality has to become irrelevant. There are a lot of people furthermore who are attracted to both genders. I swear 80% of women I've met over the last few years like girls as well. So the proportions in men can't be far off. But if a guy dates women and has a wife/girlfriend and people find out that he likes guys as well he'll be branded as gay. So a guy can't go both ways a guy will have to either bottle it up completely or come out of the closet and be a gay person.

Its 2014 most people really don't give a **** about who others are attracted to tahts the bottom line and something that is always forgotten when the PC charade comes out.


But remember its OK for Dave Chappel to make jokes about race he does it and he is a comical genius. Richie Incongito does it and he is a hate filled monster. Those are the rules these days.

 

[Kovi]

If there was a gay superstar he'd be more famous for being gay than for being a superstar. And I think he'd therefore probably rather keep his sexuality to himself and be just a superstar.

I'm sorry but this stuff goes way too far. Will it be wrong to call someone a wimp or a coward as well since that is correlated to homosexuality?

Straight men will always joke around with each other and suggest they are gay. Its a part of life and is normal.


I support equal rights for all however I think gay people need to be looked at as normal people not as a protected class who can never be made fun of even indirectly. There is a big difference between hate speach and good natured ribbing where the joke/punchline is suggesting a straight person is gay.

The change that needs to happen is that peoples sexuality has to become irrelevant. There are a lot of people furthermore who are attracted to both genders. I swear 80% of women I've met over the last few years like girls as well. So the proportions in men can't be far off. But if a guy dates women and has a wife/girlfriend and people find out that he likes guys as well he'll be branded as gay. So a guy can't go both ways a guy will have to either bottle it up completely or come out of the closet and be a gay person.

Its 2014 most people really don't give a **** about who others are attracted to tahts the bottom line and something that is always forgotten when the PC charade comes out.


But remember its OK for Dave Chappel to make jokes about race he does it and he is a comical genius. Richie Incongito does it and he is a hate filled monster. Those are the rules these days.

they ARE normal people.

and just because jokes have been made in the past doesnt make it "ok". that exactly what the atheletes are addressing. "good natured ribbing" as you so eloquently put it, is inappropriate, hurtful, and it fosters the seed of hate. It is NOT ok.



The real issue here is fear. People get afraid of things they dont understand or have never experienced. So they lash out and label. It's a way to deflect their embarrassment about not understanding.

Everyone should be free to live their life as they choose, and NO ONE should be forced to say or do anything for the status quo (party line).

If the league is trying to step up with this and champion some educational efforts then thats fantastic. There should be a zero tolerance for hate in sports.
Remember....we are born loving creatures. it is through learned behavior that hate gets created and people buy into labels and fear. A little education goes a long way.

No one should be forced to reveal any part of their life unless the are comfortable doing so. If players want to step up and be part of the effort, thats great, but thats on their terms. they need to feel safe in that environment.

 

[Salem13]

EdiT: saving Mods time, no reason to quote that tripe.

 

[Artemis]

If there was a gay superstar he'd be more famous for being gay than for being a superstar. And I think he'd therefore probably rather keep his sexuality to himself and be just a superstar.

I'm sorry but this stuff goes way too far. Will it be wrong to call someone a wimp or a coward as well since that is correlated to homosexuality?

Straight men will always joke around with each other and suggest they are gay. Its a part of life and is normal.


I support equal rights for all however I think gay people need to be looked at as normal people not as a protected class who can never be made fun of even indirectly. There is a big difference between hate speach and good natured ribbing where the joke/punchline is suggesting a straight person is gay.

The change that needs to happen is that peoples sexuality has to become irrelevant. There are a lot of people furthermore who are attracted to both genders. I swear 80% of women I've met over the last few years like girls as well. So the proportions in men can't be far off. But if a guy dates women and has a wife/girlfriend and people find out that he likes guys as well he'll be branded as gay. So a guy can't go both ways a guy will have to either bottle it up completely or come out of the closet and be a gay person.

Its 2014 most people really don't give a **** about who others are attracted to tahts the bottom line and something that is always forgotten when the PC charade comes out.


But remember its OK for Dave Chappel to make jokes about race he does it and he is a comical genius. Richie Incongito does it and he is a hate filled monster. Those are the rules these days.

It's probably hopeless, but...

Watch the series, OK? Please. You have a former professional football player breaking down in tears over what he endured. It's not "joking around" when you've got a guy considering suicide because his teammates are suggesting guys are gay, and he's terrified of being found out.

Watch the series, with an open mind, put yourself in someone else's shoes for a few minutes, and try to understand what it's like to live like that.

 

[Gee Wally]

If there was a gay superstar he'd be more famous for being gay than for being a superstar. And I think he'd therefore probably rather keep his sexuality to himself and be just a superstar.

I'm sorry but this stuff goes way too far. Will it be wrong to call someone a wimp or a coward as well since that is correlated to homosexuality?

Straight men will always joke around with each other and suggest they are gay. Its a part of life and is normal.


I support equal rights for all however I think gay people need to be looked at as normal people not as a protected class who can never be made fun of even indirectly. There is a big difference between hate speach and good natured ribbing where the joke/punchline is suggesting a straight person is gay.

The change that needs to happen is that peoples sexuality has to become irrelevant. There are a lot of people furthermore who are attracted to both genders. I swear 80% of women I've met over the last few years like girls as well. So the proportions in men can't be far off. But if a guy dates women and has a wife/girlfriend and people find out that he likes guys as well he'll be branded as gay. So a guy can't go both ways a guy will have to either bottle it up completely or come out of the closet and be a gay person.

Its 2014 most people really don't give a **** about who others are attracted to tahts the bottom line and something that is always forgotten when the PC charade comes out.


But remember its OK for Dave Chappel to make jokes about race he does it and he is a comical genius. Richie Incongito does it and he is a hate filled monster. Those are the rules these days.

Who the **** made you the king of defining normal?
Where do you keep your hood and sheets.
Hey you left out the Jews and Catholics.


That post is one of the dumbest , ignorant things I've read in 15 years here.

Generalizations based on shear ignorance .

 

[Kovi]

Generalizations based on shear ignorance .

this mindset perpetuates the cycle of hate

to interrupt it takes courage. to step away from the status quo takes courage. thats when things change

 

[CamFan81]

i've always been different when it came to issues like these. In a weird way i see a lot of actions by teams/leagues that come off as forced to actually do a diservice to a cause.

Those who treat others differently because of who they are in their own home should be ignored and not even brought up, sometimes its almost like these "causes" keep some prejudices relevant.

I know its a different point of view, and one that is not the most popular. But live it like its normal and those who judge people for those lifestyles will disappear (imo). I had a coworker/friend who admitted to me that she was gay and I was like "ok, so what time are you meeting us at the bar tonight" she laughed and shrugged her shoulders. Later on that night she told me that it was the best reaction she's ever gotten to those she "came out" to. She didn't like the "hey, i don't care what you are i love you just the same" or the "wow, really? i never would have guessed" The fact that I treated it like her saying "hey, im hungry" made her feel normal. Ever since then its how i've viewed or dealt with this issue.

Whether I disagree or agree it doesn't matter, its not my life. I don't agree with people who go through bankruptcy to get rid of bills like its nothing, but I have family and friends who have gone through it for that very reason. I wont judge them, i just don't believe in it or care to partake in that action.

 

[Si Hopkins]

If there was a gay superstar he'd be more famous for being gay than for being a superstar. And I think he'd therefore probably rather keep his sexuality to himself and be just a superstar.

I'm sorry but this stuff goes way too far. Will it be wrong to call someone a wimp or a coward as well since that is correlated to homosexuality?

Straight men will always joke around with each other and suggest they are gay. Its a part of life and is normal.


I support equal rights for all however I think gay people need to be looked at as normal people not as a protected class who can never be made fun of even indirectly. There is a big difference between hate speach and good natured ribbing where the joke/punchline is suggesting a straight person is gay.

The change that needs to happen is that peoples sexuality has to become irrelevant. There are a lot of people furthermore who are attracted to both genders. I swear 80% of women I've met over the last few years like girls as well. So the proportions in men can't be far off. But if a guy dates women and has a wife/girlfriend and people find out that he likes guys as well he'll be branded as gay. So a guy can't go both ways a guy will have to either bottle it up completely or come out of the closet and be a gay person.

Its 2014 most people really don't give a **** about who others are attracted to tahts the bottom line and something that is always forgotten when the PC charade comes out.


But remember its OK for Dave Chappel to make jokes about race he does it and he is a comical genius. Richie Incongito does it and he is a hate filled monster. Those are the rules these days.

You have no clue what you're talking about. It would be better if you went ahead and wrote out your posts and then deleted them before posting because it seems like every time you start typing you expose yourself as profoundly ignorant.

Did you see the part with Andrew Ference? The whole point is that language is the problem. Words have consequences. "Good natured ribbing" that involves slurs against gay people IS the problem. It's not normal/right/proper/good. That's the point.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

...

This thread was good for a bit. But I'm making a decision to close it, as I just can't see anything good coming from this discussion.

It really is a good series and I would encourage watching it. But it can't be promoted here without... Without conversation that we can't be having on this forum.