Rene Lecavalier Division 2nd Round - Pittsburgh AC vs Vancouver Millionaires

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Pittsburgh Athletic Club

Coach Hap Day

Patrik Elias - Frank Nighbor - Bryan Hextall
Keith Tkachuk - Max Bentley - Cecil Dillon
Jiri Holik - Jeremy Roenick - Eric Nesterenko
Zach Parise - Steve Kasper - Mike Foligno

Valeri Vasiliev (A) - Viacheslav Fetisov (C)
Leo Reise - Art Ross
Bobby Rowe - Lars-Erik Sjoberg (A)

Georges Vezina
Paddy Moran

Spares: Bobby Holik, Ken Randall, Mathieu Schneider, Ray Whitney

PP
Elias-Nighbor-Hextall
Fetisov-Bentley

Tkachuk-Roenick-Dillon
Ross-Sjoberg

PK
Kasper-Nesterenko
Vasiliev-Reise

Nighbor-Dillon
Rowe-Fetisov

VS.

Vancouver Millionares​

Head coach: Mike Keenan
Assistant coach: Peter Laviolette

Joe Malone-Mark Messier(C)-Bobby Bauer
Sweeney Schriner-Joe Thornton(A)-Glenn Anderson
Jere Lehtinen-Brent Sutter-Owen Nolan
Ross Lonsberry-Joe Niuewendyk-Bobby Nystrom
Orland Kurtenbach
Lorne Carr

King Clancy(A)-'Hap' Day(A)
Mark Howe-Red Horner
Craig Hartsburg-Bucko McDonald
Robyn Regehr

''Gump'' Worsley
Eddie Giacomin

PP#1 - Malone-Thornton-Messier-Howe-Clancy
PP#2 -Schriner-Anderson-Nieuwendyk-Day-Horner

PK#1 - Lehtinen-Sutter-Day-Horner
PK#2 -Messier-Londsberry-Howe-McDonald​

Click to read more...

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Classic offence VS defence. Good luck to the PAC, they are an intimidating franchise. I like the talent advantage Van has in the top 6, as well as a better second pair D. Obvious advantages for the Athletic club are on top pair D and in net.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Classic offence VS defence. Good luck to the PAC, they are an intimidating franchise. I like the talent advantage Van has in the top 6, as well as a better second pair D. Obvious advantages for the Athletic club are on top pair D and in net.

Good luck to you too MB, I think this is a really close matchup.

I agree with your preliminary thoughts. Vancouver has more firepower in their top six, but I do think Elias and Tkachuk are stronger offensively than Bauer and Anderson for our weakest members of each line. Howe over Ross boosts second pairs to Van's favor as well.

I'm a little skeptical of Day on a top pair and I think Pittsburgh has the edge in top and bottom pairings. Coaching and goaltending seem to be an advantage for Pittsburgh also.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Good luck to you too MB, I think this is a really close matchup.

I agree with your preliminary thoughts. Vancouver has more firepower in their top six, but I do think Elias and Tkachuk are stronger offensively than Bauer and Anderson for our weakest members of each line. Howe over Ross boosts second pairs to Van's favor as well.

I'm a little skeptical of Day on a top pair and I think Pittsburgh has the edge in top and bottom pairings. Coaching and goaltending seem to be an advantage for Pittsburgh also.

Do you have the VS2 numbers for Bauer and Elias? They must be close. Bauer has three top 10's in points as well as a 3, which matches Elias. Is Tkachuk better than Anderson? He certainly isn't in the playoffs.

You absolutely have the advantage on top pair, but Clancy-Day was a real life pair so we know they are well oiled going into round 2.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Do you have the VS2 numbers for Bauer and Elias? They must be close. Bauer has three top 10's in points as well as a 3, which matches Elias. Is Tkachuk better than Anderson? He certainly isn't in the playoffs.

You absolutely have the advantage on top pair, but Clancy-Day was a real life pair so we know they are well oiled going into round 2.

Yeah here's what best 7 year weighted VsX scores say:

Elias:79.2
Bauer: 76.2

Tkachuk: 79.3
Anderson: 71.9

Anderson's probably the best playoff performer (and agreed obviously crushes Tkachuk there), but he' also the weakest in the regular season.

Elias and Tkachuk played a bigger part in their teams' scoring than Bauer and Anderson as well. Tkachuk was a top 3 guy on his teams 10 times with 5 first place finishes. I don't have Elias's top 3 team finishes, but he did lead his team in scoring 8 times.

I don't have numbers on your guys (I can get them), but Tkachuk played a bigger role in Winnipeg/Phoenix and Elias in NJ than Anderson did on the Oilers or Bauer with Schmidt as his center.
-----------------------
With Day, the chemistry is nice but it's like putting Anderson on a top line because he has Messier. I just don't see the overall resume being there for Day. Here's his AST record courtesy of TDMM's look at the L/R split voting era:
30-31: 8th
32-33: 5th
33-34: 6th
34-35: 5th

That just isn't all that impressive on a top pair imo.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Yeah here's what VsX 7 says:

Elias:79.2
Bauer: 76.2

Tkachuk: 79.3
Anderson: 71.9

Anderson's probably the best playoff performer (and agreed obviously crushes Tkachuk there), but he' also the weakest in the regular season.

Elias and Tkachuk played a bigger part in their teams' scoring than Bauer and Anderson as well. Tkachuk was a top 3 guy on his teams 10 times with 5 first place finishes. I don't have Elias's top 3 team finishes, but he did lead his team in scoring 8 times.

I don't have numbers on your guys (I can get them), but Tkachuk played a bigger role in Winnipeg/Phoenix and Elias in NJ than Anderson did on the Oilers or Bauer with Schmidt as his center.

Thanks. I can give you Tkachuk and Elias>Bauer and Anderson (Anderson was one of my worst picks in hindsight...im not drafting for chemistry next year!).

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Keep in mind that Bauer was in his prime when he left to fight WW2. Hard to tell just what he lost, since he wasn't so good after coming back, but he definitely lost something.

Also, its not really fair to compare the team rankings of guys in a 30 team league to guys in a much smaller league.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Keep in mind that Bauer was in his prime when he left to fight WW2. Hard to tell just what he lost, since he wasn't so good after coming back, but he definitely lost something.

1st year back after war service Bauer sucked, but the next year he was a post season all-star again. I think he is the most gifted in the offensive zone of the four players mentioned, but you're right - his VSX scores are sabatoged because he left for the war in his prime.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Keep in mind that Bauer was in his prime when he left to fight WW2. Hard to tell just what he lost, since he wasn't so good after coming back, but he definitely lost something.

Also, its not really fair to compare the team rankings of guys in a 30 team league to guys in a much smaller league.

Good point.

Also I didn't post the team rankings on Bauer. Generally speaking wouldn't you agree with the idea that Elias was more of an offensive catalyst on his teams than Bauer?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Good point.

Also I didn't post the team rankings on Bauer. Generally speaking wouldn't you agree with the idea that Elias was more of an offensive catalyst on his teams than Bauer?

Absolutely, but comparisons like this will generally favor the player who played in a bigger league, where there were more opportunities to play as catalysts.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

''Bobby was our offence, he was my right hand.'' - Milt Schmidt

''He was the brains of the line, always thinking - and a very clever playmaker'' - Woody Dumart

It appears both Schmidt and Dumart credit Bauer as being a catalyst for the Kraut line, though they were much larger guys and way more solid players overall.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

''Bobby was our offence, he was my right hand.'' - Milt Schmidt

''He was the brains of the line, always thinking - and a very clever playmaker'' - Woody Dumart

It appears both Schmidt and Dumart credit Bauer as being a catalyst for the Kraut line, though they were much larger guys and way more solid players overall.

See this post, referencing a Dink Carroll column. Bauer was known for his stickhandling, and he appeared to be the primary puck carrier for the Kraut line (which was extra important at a time when players couldn't pass the puck forward between zones), but statistically, it's hard not to think that Schmidt was the catalyst once they got into the offensive zone, just based on the stats.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

A couple more things:

Scuds, about Day's all-star record, keep in mind they weren't recorded until 1931. He had a bunch of a very good season's in the mid-late 20's as well where there was no records for any of the players.

As for Bauer:

Considering he is by far the least important player on my 1st line and he see's no special teams ice time, all Im looking for from him is quick transition stick handling and some playmaking. Anything else is a nice bonus. Get the puck to Malone and let him find the net pretty much.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Pittsburgh wins in 7 games

Stars:

1. Mark Messier
2/3. Frank Nighbor / Georges Vezina

Slava Fetisov and Mark Howe were both big factors.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Good series MB, knew this would be a tight one.