Rene Lecavalier Division 1st Round - Pittsburgh AC vs West Island Lions

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Pittsburgh Athletic Club

Coach Hap Day

Patrik Elias - Frank Nighbor - Bryan Hextall
Keith Tkachuk - Max Bentley - Cecil Dillon
Jiri Holik - Jeremy Roenick - Eric Nesterenko
Zach Parise - Steve Kasper - Mike Foligno

Valeri Vasiliev (A) - Viacheslav Fetisov (C)
Leo Reise - Art Ross
Bobby Rowe - Lars-Erik Sjoberg (A)

Georges Vezina
Paddy Moran

Spares: Bobby Holik, Ken Randall, Mathieu Schneider, Ray Whitney

PP
Elias-Nighbor-Hextall
Fetisov-Bentley

Tkachuk-Roenick-Dillon
Ross-Sjoberg

PK
Kasper-Nesterenko
Vasiliev-Reise

Nighbor-Dillon
Rowe-Fetisov

VS.

WEST ISLAND LIONS

General Manager: Dwight
Head Coach: Arkady Chernyshev
Assistant Coach: Viktor Tikhonov
Captain: Eddie Gerard
Assistant Captains: Bryan Trottier, Punch Broadbent

Cy Denneny - Bryan Trottier - Rick Middleton
Markus Naslund - Bernie Federko - Punch Broadbent
Nick Metz - Phil Goyette - Jean Pronovost
Adam Graves - Murray Oliver - Bruce MacGregor
Marcel Bonin - Kent Nilsson

Eddie Gerard - Pierre Pilote
Moose Vasko - Dan Boyle
Barclay Plager - Paul Reinhart
Jeff Brown

Henrik Lundqvist
Al Rollins

PP1
Cy Denneny - Bryan Trottier - Rick Middleton
Pierre Pilote - Dan Boyle

PP2
Markus Naslund - Bernie Federko - Punch Broadbent
Moose Vasko - Paul Reinhart

PK1
Murray Oliver - Nick Metz
Eddie Gerard - Pierre Pilote

PK2
Bryan Trottier - Bruce MacGregor
Moose Vasko - Barclay Plager​

Click to read more...

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Looking forward to a good series Dwight.

Just looking quickly at the forwards, I think Pittburgh has the edge in top six groups. Close top lines with Denneny being better than Hextall and Elias better than Middleton. I think the second lines are an advantage for Pittsburgh.

VsX scores (omits Nighbor, Denneny, and Broadbent) - red scores are Pittsburgh's players
Bentley 94.9*
Trottier 93.5
Hextall 84.5
Naslund 83.6
Tkachuk 79.3
Elias 79.2
Dillon 78.4
Federko 74.4
Middleton 74

*best three seasons were 1946, 1947, 1943

Third lines seem pretty close. Roenick and Goyette are good 3rd liners with Roenick being better offensively and Goyette better defensively. Holik's a better two-way winger than Pronovost and Metz a better checker than Nesterenko.

 

[BraveCanadian]

VsX scores (omits Nighbor, Denneny, and Broadbent) - red scores are Pittsburgh's players
Bentley 94.9*
Trottier 93.5
Hextall 84.5
Naslund 83.6
Tkachuk 79.3
Elias 79.2
Dillon 78.4
Federko 74.4
Middleton 74

Just going to chime in here with my opinion even though something similar has been in a few of the series already:

I agree that VsX may be one of the most fair ways we have of comparing player offense across time while taking into account average prime lengths etc.. But we need to be careful not to reduce players into one number.

Linemate/teammate context, chemistry, intangibles and (most notably even for offense) longevity are not measured by VsX.

Not saying I disagree with your assessment or anything because I'd have to look into the players some more, I am just spitting out my opinion on these lists of VsX numbers showing up all over.

 

[Dwight]

Good luck Rob.

Don't think my team deserved to finish last, but I know that I had a rough time classing our division so maybe it was very close. Later on today, I hope to bring in some arguments, but Pittsburgh AC is definitely one of my favourite teams in the division. I think I had you guys 2nd (behind me, of course). Won't be an easy upset for me at all. All the best!

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Good luck Rob.

Don't think my team deserved to finish last, but I know that I had a rough time classing our division so maybe it was very close. Later on today, I hope to bring in some arguments, but Pittsburgh AC is definitely one of my favourite teams in the division. I think I had you guys 2nd (behind me, of course). Won't be an easy upset for me at all. All the best!

You didn't do yourself any favours with where you took Broadbent and Naslund, lol.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Just going to chime in here with my opinion even though something similar has been in a few of the series already:

I agree that VsX may be one of the most fair ways we have of comparing player offense across time while taking into account average prime lengths etc.. But we need to be careful not to reduce players into one number.

Linemate/teammate context, chemistry, intangibles and (most notably even for offense) longevity are not measured by VsX.

Not saying I disagree with your assessment or anything because I'd have to look into the players some more, I am just spitting out my opinion on these lists of VsX numbers showing up all over.

I definitely agree. VsX is a great starting point, but it's not the end all be all. I just wanted to provide something, as I quickly wrote up a look at our forwards, because I don't like saying who I see as better/worse with no evidence.

 

[Dwight]

You didn't do yourself any favours with where you took Broadbent and Naslund, lol.

If 2 picks (1 that really wasn't bad) got me to last place, that's a joke.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

If 2 picks (1 that really wasn't bad) got me to last place, that's a joke.

2 picks could be the difference in a draft like this. Your top unit is strong but people see a naslund-federko-broadbent second line and aren't impressed. fwiw i didnt have you last.

 

[Dwight]

I understand the contention around the Broadbent pick. I admit I slipped up in picking him where I did, but I don't see what's wrong with the Naslund selection

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

I understand the contention around the Broadbent pick. I admit I slipped up in picking him where I did, but I don't see what's wrong with the Naslund selection

Naslund was a legit dude scoring-wise as the 7 year vsx show, but his reputation as soft and poor defensively is imprinted on everyone here's mind, whether it's fair or not.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

The top lines are built similarly and I see them as being pretty close overall.

(Scoring finishes for Nighbor and Denneny not labeled by year were from their time in the NHL)

Trottier
VsX 7: 93.5
Points: 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 17, 19
Goals: 5, 5, 8
Assists: 1, 1, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 8

Hart Trophy voting: 1, 2, 2, 3, 5
AST voting: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3

Nighbor
Points: 2, 2 (1917 NHA), 3, 3 (1915 PCHA), 5, 6 (1913 NHA), 7th (1916 NHA), 8, 8, 9
Goals: 1 (1917 NHA), 3, 3, 3 (1915 PCHA), 5, 5 (1913 NHA), 7th (1916 NHA), 10
NHL assists: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 6, 8

Hart Trophy voting: 1, 4 (introduced when he was 31)

Both elite two-way centers on dynasties. Hard to compare their offense, but it seems like something of a wash to me. Trottier was great defensively, but Nighbor's checking skills were even more legendary. That combined with the quotes calling him the best player in the world give Nighbor a small step up from Trottier.

Denneny
Points: 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5 (1916 NHA)
Goals: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4 (1916 NHA), 8
Assists: 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 8

Hextall
VsX 7: 84.5
Points: 1, 2, 6, 7
Goals: 1, 1, 2, 5, 5, 10
Assists: 2

Hart: 5
AST: 1, 1, 1, 2

Hextall fills the role of Nighbor's Denneny, but Denneny was the better scorer. Both were tough wingers who can do dirty work for their lines. Definitely an edge for West Island here.

Middleton
VsX 7:74
Points: 10, 10, 13, 14, 14, 16
Goals: 7, 8, 10

AST: 2, 3, 3
Hart: 8
Selke: 4, 9

Elias
VsX 7:79.2
Point finishes: 3rd (2001), 6th (2004), 10th (2012), 20th (2009)
Goal finishes: 4th (2004), 10th (2001)
Assist finishes: 7th (2012), 9th (2001)

AST: 1, 3
Hart: 6
Selke: 8

Similar players again, two-way wingers who were often the best forward on their defensive-minded teams. Elias was the better scorer and had the better peak. Based on Middleton's reputation and Selke record it seems like he was the more consistent defensive forward. I'd give Elias an edge here, but it's definitely closer than the power wings on our lines.

Ultimately I see these lines as very close. Nighbor's a step ahead of Trottier, I see Elias and Middleton the same way, but the clearest advantage is Denneny over Hextall.

 

[Rob Scuderi]

Max Bentley
VsX 7: 94.9
Point finishes: 1, 1, 3, 3, 5
Goal finishes: 2, 4, 5, 8, 9, 9, 10
Assist finishes: 2, 2, 2, 3, 9
Playoff point finishes: 1, 2, 4, 10
Team scoring: 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3

Hart Trophy voting: 1, 3, 4
AST voting: 1, 2, 3, 3

Bernie Federko
VsX 7: 74.4
Point finishes: 8, 9, 9, 9, 10, 12, 18, 20
Assist finishes: 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8
Team scoring: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3
Playoff point finishes: 1, 5

No notable award voting

I see Bentley as one of the better second line centers and Federko as one of the weaker ones. Neither was notable outside of their offensive abilities and Bentley has a big edge over Federko considering the stats and award recognition.

Cecil Dillon
VsX 7: 78.4
Point finishes: 4, 5
Goal finishes: 2, 4, 6, 6, 6, 6
Assist finishes: 3rd
Team scoring: 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3
Playoff point finishes: 1, 8

AST: 1, 2, 2

Markus Naslund
VsX 7: 83.6
Point finishes: 2, 2, 4
Goal finishes: 2, 5, 7, 7
Assists finishes: 4, 8, 9
Team scoring: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 3

Playoff point finishes: 7th

Hart voting: 2, 5, 5, 11
1x Ted Lindsay winner
AST voting: 1, 1, 1, 3

I thought Naslund got too much criticism when you picked him, but I was really surprised to see he had no other top 20 scoring finishes outside of his three big years. Dillon's scoring was held back playing behind the Bread Line, he regularly finished a good number of points ahead of the best scoring Ranger after those three and himself. Dillon was sort of the anti-Naslund, Lester Patrick called him the perfect hockey player. He was a very consistent player finishing in the top 20 scorers seven years in a row. He was also a very good checker. Naslund has Dillon beat as a scorer, but Dillon provides elements Naslund doesn't.

Keith Tkachuk
VsX 7: 79.3
Point finishes: 11, 12, 13, 15
Goal finishes: 1, 6, 7, 7, 10
Team scoring: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3

Hart voting: 10
AST voting: 2, 2, 3, 3

Punch Broadbent
Point finishes: 1st (1922 NHL), 5th (1915 NHA), 8th (1913 NHA), 10th (1920 NHL)
Goal finishes: 1st (1922 NHL), 3rd (1915 NHA), 7th (1913 NHA), 8th (1923 NHL), 10th (1920 NHL)
Led 1923 playoffs in scoring
DNP 1916-1919 due to military service

Tkachuk was a pretty respectable scorer despite never cracking the top 10 in points. Broadbent had that great year leading the league in scoring, but his scoring resume is pretty weak after that. Both were power wingers who will do the dirty work for their lines. Unlike Tkachuk, Broadbent was praised for his defensive game. Tkachuk definitely gets the edge here with Broadbent's short scoring resume.

Naslund may be the best scoring winger on either line, but Federko and Broadbent are lower-end second liners. Bentley came in at 24th in the center project and is one of the best 2Cs in the draft. Dillon and Tkachuk are good scorers who bring intangibles to round out the line. Based on all this, I think this is a clear advantage for Pittsburgh.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Pittsburgh wins in 5 games

Stars:

1. Georges Vezina
2. Frank Nighbor
3. Slava Fetisov

Bryan Trottier was West Island's best player this series, and Pierre Pilote also played well. Valeri Vasiliev contributed to Pittsburgh's win.