René Lecavalier Semifinals: Belfast Giants vs. Chicago Shamrocks

[Sturminator]

The Belfast Giants​

(2000-2015)

General Manager:EagleBelfour
Head Coach: Ken Hitchcock

Joe Malone - Peter Stastny (A) - Ace Bailey
Anatoli Firsov - - Joe Primeau - Claude Provost
Esa Tikkanen - Phil Goyette - Johnny Peirson
Billy Burch - Murray Oliver - Tim Kerr
Tumba Johansson
Marcel Bonin
Konstantin Loktev

Pierre Pilote (A) - Sylvio Mantha (C)
Babe Pratt - Vitaly Davydov
Phil Russell - Yuri Liapkin
Al Shields

Jacques Plante
Rogatien Vachon


Powerplay:
Joe Malone - Tim Kerr - Joe Primeau
Pierre Pilote - Yuri Liapkin

Anatoli Firsov - Peter Stastny - Ace Bailey
Babe Pratt - Sylvio Mantha

Penalty Kill:
Claude Provost - Joe Primeau
Babe Pratt - Sylvio Mantha
Jacques Plante

Esa Tikkanen- Murray Oliver
Pierre Pilote - Vitaly Davydov
Jacques Plante
​

Vs.​

Chicago Shamrocks

Head Coach: Darryl Sutter
Captain: Milt Schmidt
Alternate Captains: Chris Chelios, Shane Doan

Vladimir Krutov - Milt Schmidt (C) - Sergei Makarov
Roy Conacher - Evgeni Malkin - Shane Doan (A)
Marty Pavelich - Bill Thoms - Tony Leswick
Ab McDonald - Brent Sutter - Jamie Langenbrunner


Moose Vasko - Chris Chelios (A)
Ryan Suter - Ken Reardon
Lars-Erik Sjoberg - Reed Larson

Henrik Lundqvist
Alec Connell

Spares: Clint Smith, Leo Labine, Dickie Boon, Allan Cameron


PP1
Roy Conacher - Milt Schmidt - Sergei Makarov
Reed Larson - Evgeni Malkin

PP2
Vladimir Krutov - Bill Thoms - Shane Doan
Chris Chelios - Lars-Erik Sjoberg

PK1
Marty Pavelich - Tony Leswick
Moose Vasko - Chris Chelios

PK2
Ab McDonald - Brent Sutter
Ryan Suter - Ken Reardon

PK3
Bill Thoms - Jamie Langenbrunner

Extra PK F: Milt Schmidt
Extra PK D: Lars-Erik Sjoberg
​

Estimated Minutes

Forwards

Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
V. Krutov | 12 | 5 | 0 | 17
M. Schmidt | 15 | 5 | 0 | 20
S. Makarov | 15 | 5 | 0 | 20
R. Conacher | 14 | 2 | 0 | 16
E. Malkin | 12 | 5 | 0 | 17
S. Doan | 12 | 2 | 0 | 14
M. Pavelich | 12 | 0 | 3.5 | 15.5
B. Thoms | 10 | 2 | 1 | 13
T. Leswick | 12 | 0 | 3.5 | 15.5
A. McDonald | 8 | 0 | 2.5 | 10.5
B. Sutter | 9 | 0 | 2.5 | 11.5
J. Langenbrunner | 7 | 0 | 1 | 8
TOTAL | 138 | 26 | 14 | 178

Defense

Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
C. Chelios | 19 | 2 | 4 | 25
M. Vasko | 16 | 0 | 4 | 20
K. Reardon | 19 | 0 | 3 | 22
R. Suter | 16 | 0 | 3 | 19
L. Sjoberg | 15 | 2 | 0 | 17
R. Larson | 7 | 5 | 0 | 12
TOTAL | 92 | 9 | 14 | 115

Click to read more...

 

[EagleBelfour]

That's not going to be an easy task for the Belfast Giants! With a similar defence, Jacques Plante vs. Henrik Lundqvist will play a huge role or the Giants, and will this outrageous difference in goaltending will be enough to make up with the edge the Chicago Shamrocks have with his forwards.

 

[jarek]

EB, what do you plan on doing for matchups in this series? I could see you having a real hard time dealing with Malkin.

 

[EagleBelfour]

EB, what do you plan on doing for matchups in this series? I could see you having a real hard time dealing with Malkin.

In all honesty, that first line is scaring much more than Evgeni Malkin. I understand the concern though: I don't have that big, physical defensive centre to contain the big man. Joe Primeau and Phil Goyette are very smart defensive centre, but not the physical presence you'd hope for. However, I believe both my second and third line have a glut of fast, intelligent, defensive forwards that I'm sure can take care of him as a group. Claude Provost: Very fast, strong, physical. I think his reputation is more than well known. Esa Tikkanen: Fast, aggressive, will he be able to get under the skin of Malkin? Babe Pratt: not as polished defensively as his partner Davydov, but easily strong and big (bigger) enough to play with Malkin in the defensive zone. Either I throw the second or third line out there, it will be a team effort to take out Malkin. Not overly ideal, as yes, I wished either Primeau or Goyette were bigger, that I think the group can make it happen. Add also that I have a brilliant, elite all-time goaltender in Jacques Plantes that will save this team ass when Pratt get caught of position or Primeau get pushed by Malkin.

You also have to look at it this way: both my second and third liner are extremely fast, smart and can score goals. On the counter-attack, guys like Roy Conacher or Kenneth Reardon will get burned by Anatoli Firsov, Claude Provost, Johnny Peirson flying down the wings. Will a Malkin-Conacher scores more goals playing against my second or third line? Absolutely! They will get scored on a bunch too, and my guys have to shoot pucks at Henrik Lundqvist, a low-end starter, and nort Jacques Plante, an elite all-time goaltender.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

EB obviously has an enormous advantage between the pipes here with Lundqvist a hugely unproven starter!

 

[jarek]

EB obviously has an enormous advantage between the pipes here with Lundqvist a hugely unproven starter!

Yep, it cannot be understated.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I would be interested in seeing where Lundqvist compares to starters who are more known commodities.

 

[seventieslord]

I would be interested in seeing where Lundqvist compares to starters who are more known commodities.

what do you mean by this? more well known than Plante?

 

[EagleBelfour]

what do you mean by this? more well known than Plante?

I think he means in his same tier. Where do he stands against a Eddie Giacomin or a Tom Barrasso for example.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Also, is Darryl Sutter the right coach for his star players like Sergei Makarov, Evgeni Malkin and Vladimir Krutov?

 

[jarek]

In all honesty, that first line is scaring much more than Evgeni Malkin. I understand the concern though: I don't have that big, physical defensive centre to contain the big man. Joe Primeau and Phil Goyette are very smart defensive centre, but not the physical presence you'd hope for. However, I believe both my second and third line have a glut of fast, intelligent, defensive forwards that I'm sure can take care of him as a group. Claude Provost: Very fast, strong, physical. I think his reputation is more than well known. Esa Tikkanen: Fast, aggressive, will he be able to get under the skin of Malkin? Babe Pratt: not as polished defensively as his partner Davydov, but easily strong and big (bigger) enough to play with Malkin in the defensive zone. Either I throw the second or third line out there, it will be a team effort to take out Malkin. Not overly ideal, as yes, I wished either Primeau or Goyette were bigger, that I think the group can make it happen. Add also that I have a brilliant, elite all-time goaltender in Jacques Plantes that will save this team ass when Pratt get caught of position or Primeau get pushed by Malkin.

You also have to look at it this way: both my second and third liner are extremely fast, smart and can score goals. On the counter-attack, guys like Roy Conacher or Kenneth Reardon will get burned by Anatoli Firsov, Claude Provost, Johnny Peirson flying down the wings. Will a Malkin-Conacher scores more goals playing against my second or third line? Absolutely! They will get scored on a bunch too, and my guys have to shoot pucks at Henrik Lundqvist, a low-end starter, and nort Jacques Plante, an elite all-time goaltender.

Yeah looking at it more closely, I think you might find more success against this team just rolling the lines, as I don't see any particular matchups that would work too well in your favor. Just don't really have that shutdown line. I guess Plante will need to be your hero this series! And I do think Hitchcock can find a way to neutralize the offense of the opposing team as best as possible.

Also, is Darryl Sutter the right coach for his star players like Sergei Makarov, Evgeni Malkin and Vladimir Krutov?

I wonder that myself. I never found that Sutter has much patience for players that struggle for example. Within 2-3 games they are in the dog house, and it's so hard to get out of Sutter's dog house. Maybe I am over exaggerating, I dunno.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I think he means in his same tier. Where do he stands against a Eddie Giacomin or a Tom Barrasso for example.

Yes. How much distance has Lundqvist put between himself and Barrasso? What does he have to do to be at Tony Esposito's level? Comparing him directly to Plante is pointless

 

[jarek]

Yes. How much distance has Lundqvist put between himself and Barrasso? What does he have to do to be at Tony Esposito's level? Comparing him directly to Plante is pointless

Care to elaborate why this is important? Not saying it isn't, would just like to know your thoughts here.

 

[Sturminator]

Care to elaborate why this is important? Not saying it isn't, would just like to know your thoughts here.

I'd say because the gap is so big that it is difficult to accurately guage, and opinions will vary widely. Of course, this is in many ways true of the gap between Plante and, for example, Barrasso, as well.

 

[jarek]

I'd say because the gap is so big that it is difficult to accurately guage, and opinions will vary widely. Of course, this is in many ways true of the gap between Plante and, for example, Barrasso, as well.

That still doesn't explain precisely why this is important to the outcome of this series.

 

[EagleBelfour]

I think TDMM (and myself) would like a clear comparison of a unknown starter (Lundqvist) against a more known commodity so that it's easier for us and the voters to understand and quantity the gap in between Plante and Lundqvist

 

[MadArcand]

Yes. How much distance has Lundqvist put between himself and Barrasso?

Ludnqvist isn't putting any distance between himself and Barrasso, since that'd mean he'd be regressing.

 

[Elvis P]

Is Lundqvist definitely better than Giacomin, Vachon, Vanbiesbrouck, LeSueur, Luongo, and Thomas?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Not much time right now as I'm extra busy at work today. Just want to say congrats to EB on winning in the 1st round, and here's to a good series...

A few quick thoughts/comments...

- I will provide you guys a more detailed look at Lundqvist, obviously no matter how that comes out, goaltending is going to be a large edge for Belfast.

- I think a nice detailed comparison of the bluelines is needed

- Belfast's strength up front is on the LW in Malone/Firsov, but Chicago is set up well to defend that...Chelios/Reardon both playing RD, and all the RWer's on Chicago's 2nd-4th lines are good defensive players with grit (Leswick being a high end shadow), and on the top line you have Makarov who is the most dynamic offensive player on either team.

 

[Elvis P]

...and on the top line you have Makarov who is the most dynamic offensive player on either team.

This may be true, but I think Malone is a better player than Makarov.

 

[jarek]

Why not just compare Lundqvist to Plante? We have very detailed info available for Lundqvist, and Plante's stats and achievements are obviously all available.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Not much time right now as I'm extra busy at work today. Just want to say congrats to EB on winning in the 1st round, and here's to a good series...

A few quick thoughts/comments...

- I will provide you guys a more detailed look at Lundqvist, obviously no matter how that comes out, goaltending is going to be a large edge for Belfast.

- I think a nice detailed comparison of the bluelines is needed

- Belfast's strength up front is on the LW in Malone/Firsov, but Chicago is set up well to defend that...Chelios/Reardon both playing RD, and all the RWer's on Chicago's 2nd-4th lines are good defensive players with grit (Leswick being a high end shadow), and on the top line you have Makarov who is the most dynamic offensive player on either team.

Congratulation to you too: with the parity of this league it's quite an accomplishment just getting by one team!

- It would be interesting to see for sure. I had Lundqvist as a backup years ago, but obviously his resume did improve ten fold since then.


- I was quick on the subject earlier, because I think both are defence are pretty similar, but let's go a bit indepth:

Pierre Pilote vs. Ken Reardon: Both Pilote and Chelios are, strong offensive defenceman with a mean edge. Both have about the same size. Both were pretty good playoff performer, although I feel Pierre Pilote sometimes gets a bad reputation (just like all those Blackhawks from the 60's), even though he put up amazing points total. Chris Chelios probably was better defensively. ATD-Cannon has Chelios over Pilote, and I'm not here to say the contrary. The edge is pretty small though IMO.

Sylvio Mantha vs. Moose Vasko: Mantha is a decent *2 defenceman who ooze leadership. A great-two way defenceman with mobility. For me, Vasko is a mini-version of Mantha (minus the leadership): same qualities, but more suited for a second pairing. Vasko is not completely out of place on a first pairing, but it's a clear edge for the Giants.

Babe Pratt vs. Ken Reardon: Again, two similar defenceman. Big, nasty, known for their offensive game. Not reknown for their defensive one. Pratt owns the one year edge, Reardon the 5 years one. Pratt do have longer longevity, as Reardon 5 seasons is pretty much all he as to show. I'll give the edge to Reardon, but Pratt is not far behind.

Vitaly Davydov vs. Ryan Suter: Davydov is mainly a defensive defenceman, while Suter can do more with the puck. Longevity goes to Davydov, as Suter have been consider a top-10 defenceman in the league for 3-4 years. I'll give the edge to Ryan Suter. At the end though, I feel a Pratt-Davydov is better constructed than a Reardon-Suter, as Suter will have to cover for Reardon more often and lose is effectiveness as a two-way defenceman.

Sjoberg/Larson 3rd pairing for the Shamrock is a bit of a mystery to me: two offensive-defenceman, but with huge hole defensively. With the Belfast Giants having four lines that can score (3rd line with Goyette/Peirson, 4th line with Burch/Kerr) this pairing could be in trouble.

The Liapkin/Russell duo of the Giants is not without his flaws, but the construction of it seems to fit much better. A very skillful offensive defenceman in Liapkin, with a big, mobile chameleon type of defenceman in Russell that will cover for him. The way my built is build, my third pairing will not play a lot of minutes at ES, and Lipakin will have a huge role on my powerplay.


- Chelios vs. Malone would be an amazing battle to watch! Chelios definitely have all the tools to contain (as much as you can) someone like Joe Malone. One of the very best goalscorer and fastest player of his generation, Malone can definitely on his side hold is own against Chelios. The second matchup I actually see it as a big disadvantage for the Shamrocks. Anatoli Firsov is also one of the better goalscorer and fastest player of his generation. He was so quick and elusive, no one could completely stop him. I really don't see Reardon being the type of defenceman to stop him. I've picked Reardon in the past: he's a fantastic puck-rushing defenceman and NASTY! But Reardon was definitely not known for his defensive game and correct me if I'm wrong, but was not the fastest defenceman either. I guess once in a blue moon he will clock Firsov pretty well and send him flying on his ass, but I see mostly Firsov skating circles around the guy, especially on the rush.

 

[jarek]

Suter having to cover for Reardon is definitely a big deal, as Suter has always played with defensemen who were very good in their own end (though I might be wrong about Brodin?). This is definitely cause for concern.

And yeah.. Reardon is going to have huge issues dealing with Firsov. If the play gets along the boards, he will fare better, but it's possible that Firsov will get several good looks at the net per game because of this mismatch.

 

[Sturminator]

Babe Pratt vs. Ken Reardon: Again, two similar defenceman. Big, nasty, known for their offensive game. Not reknown for their defensive one. Pratt owns the one year edge, Reardon the 5 years one. Pratt do have longer longevity, as Reardon 5 seasons is pretty much all he as to show. I'll give the edge to Reardon, but Pratt is not far behind.

Vitaly Davydov vs. Ryan Suter: Davydov is mainly a defensive defenceman, while Suter can do more with the puck. Longevity goes to Davydov, as Suter have been consider a top-10 defenceman in the league for 3-4 years. I'll give the edge to Ryan Suter. At the end though, I feel a Pratt-Davydov is better constructed than a Reardon-Suter, as Suter will have to cover for Reardon more often and lose is effectiveness as a two-way defenceman.

I don't agree with this analysis. Kenny Reardon's peak was short, but at his peak he had a much better sustained stretch of two-way play than anything Babe Pratt ever did. Reardon is an average to below average #2 in the ATD at 32 teams, while Pratt doesn't belong on a first pairing, at all. I think the gap here is bigger than you're making it out to be.

Also...what on earth is the problem with the construction of the Reardon - Suter pairing? Reardon's style of play seems to have been quite a lot like an early Shea Weber, actually, so why wouldn't Suter complement him well? I think the matchup of second pairings is clearly in Chicago's favor.

 

[Sturminator]

Suter having to cover for Reardon is definitely a big deal, as Suter has always played with defensemen who were very good in their own end (though I might be wrong about Brodin?). This is definitely cause for concern.

What gives you the idea that Kenny Reardon wasn't very good in his own end?