Reminiscing - Was It Worth It?

[Willy Styles]

When the Leafs were comfortably in a position to make the playoffs and collapsed for two whole seasons. I was livid with anger watching the collapses, as I firmly believed we could and would be a playoff team.

However, these painful collapses for the fans were perhaps a blessing in disguise. They awarded us our two most valuable assets Reilly and Nylander.

The question is, in hindsight was Carlyle lack lustre coaching, Kessels lazy play, Bozak as our first C, Phanuef playing like a Pylon and dare I say Clarksons contract worth it? Because it set us up for quick rebuild with two top 10 picks, which are a huge part of our core going forward.

Without the collapses we would looking at a 5 year rebuild, IMO with the collpases we are looking at max 2 more years of tanking. Whats your opinion?

Was Nonis actually a future telling Messiah who literally set us up for a quick rebuild?

Click to read more...

 

[cheeeko]

I suppose without the collapses, there would have been no evident need for a rebuild in the first place!

 

[rdawg1234]

We should've started in 2013, but we overachieved a bit in the shortened season literally because our team is only capable of winning for half a season.

Had we done that we could've had a million more prospects by now(imagine a sean monahan, a mackinnon, a seth jones etc. on this team right now).

I think that 2013 playoff series, while really fun, set us back a couple seasons, yes we pulled two top 10 picks in the seasons after, but we werent trying to rebuild, and thus made mistakes instead of trying to get more assets.

 

[Jyrki Lumme]

How do you know it's going to be a quick rebuild?

 

[PuckMagi]

It's true... if we didn't have Rielly, Nylander and Marner because we were picking in the 10 - 15 range... our rebuild would be way behind.

It's good to know that we have three real pieces in the rebuild. And we also have JVR, Kadri, Bernier and Gardiner who are young enough to still fit in with the plan (I'd like to include Holland in that group as well). Having Phaneuf locked up long term also is good for the rebuild because it allows us to have a real #1 defender who can play the tough minutes and provide some shelter for the kids.

 

[Willy Styles]

How do you know it's going to be a quick rebuild?

because we already have two tank years under our belt, which were supposed to be playoff years....

so we're two years ahead of the curve, now were officiallty rebuilding.

so if we tank for one more year (thats 4 top 10 picks), it will be 4 years of tanking under our belt.

Marner
Nylander
Rielly


Auston Matthews/Jacub Chychurun

XXX (2017)

Thats more than enough top 10 picks to make a good team, hopefully some our later pick guys like Bracco, Dermott turn out good and we're set.

 

[Stephen]

If they hadn't collapse and were a playoff team those years, it would just mean that Kessel, Kadri, JVR, Lupul, Bozak, Phaneuf and company were good players that had matured into a competitive contender. I'm glad we headed in another direction, but it certainly would have been nice if the Leafs were good.

 

[Backhandshelf81]

Was Nonis actually a future telling Messiah who literally set us up for a quick rebuild?

Sure, if these were the results he intended.

When he went out and signed Clarkson and later told the board the Leafs were on their way to competing, that certainly doesn't seem like he was intending on the Leafs getting two consecutive high draft picks ...

 

[Jyrki Lumme]

because we already have two tank years under our belt, which were supposed to be playoff years....

so we're two years ahead of the curve, now were officiallty rebuilding.

so if we tank for one more year (thats 4 top 10 picks), it will be 4 years of tanking under our belt.

Marner
Nylander
Rielly


Auston Matthews/Jacub Chychurun

XXX (2017)

Thats more than enough top 10 picks to make a good team, hopefully some our later pick guys like Bracco, Dermott turn out good and we're set.

We're still a least 3 years from competing. So by your logic, we've been **** for 2 years, plus an additional 3. So a 5 year rebuild in the end. That's not exactly fast.

 

[Mitchy]

It's a good thing we collapsed. If not, Nonis would still be our GM and we would just be a treadmill team (1st round exit ceiling).

 

[Willy Styles]

We're still a least 3 years from competing. So by your logic, we've been **** for 2 years, plus an additional 3. So a 5 year rebuild in the end. That's not exactly fast.

Yeah but the last 3-4 years werent really considered "rebuild years".

The team intended to contend. Now we officially tanked one year, after next years draft we will probally be set in terms of having a deep deep prospect pool, and thats two years in total of actually tanking and rebuilding.

If you look at teams like Chicago, Tampa and Islanders, they were bad for a pretty long time. IMO we make playoffs in 2017-2018, or atleast get very close, hopefully with NHL ready prospects such as Matthews, Chychurun and/or Logan Brown.

 

[wulfio*]

or we could have just rebuilt properly like 8 years ago.

 

[-DeMo-]

Yeah but the last 3-4 years werent really considered "rebuild years".

The team intended to contend. Now we officially tanked one year, after next years draft we will probally be set in terms of having a deep deep prospect pool, and thats two years in total of actually tanking and rebuilding.

If you look at teams like Chicago, Tampa and Islanders, they were bad for a pretty long time. IMO we make playoffs in 2017-2018, or atleast get very close, hopefully with NHL ready prospects such as Matthews, Chychurun and/or Logan Brown.

we've made the playoffs once since 2004 this has been the longest rebuild in League history, with the exception of maybe Florida.

weather they were called rebuilds or not we still sucked

 

[Trapper]

because we already have two tank years under our belt, which were supposed to be playoff years....

so we're two years ahead of the curve, now were officiallty rebuilding.

so if we tank for one more year (thats 4 top 10 picks), it will be 4 years of tanking under our belt.

Marner
Nylander
Rielly


Auston Matthews/Jacub Chychurun

XXX (2017)

Thats more than enough top 10 picks to make a good team, hopefully some our later pick guys like Bracco, Dermott turn out good and we're set.

It's going to take more than 3 guys (who have yet to prove it in the NHL).
And we are not really ahead of the curve.
Teams still working on making the playoffs regularly (and are ahead of our curve):
Colorado: Duchene/Landy/Johnson/MacKinnon/(traded O'Reilly for Zadorov/Grigorenko)
Florida:Barkov/Bjugstad/Ekblad/(now Crouse)/Huberdeau
Edmonton:4 out of 6 years 1st overalls.
Dallas:Benn/Seguin/Nikushkin/Klingberg
Buffalo:Ahead of our curve
And so on.
We have a lot of work to do.
Still more years of drafting and developing.

 

[indigobuffalo]

It's going to take more than 3 guys (who have yet to prove it in the NHL).
And we are not really ahead of the curve.
Teams still working on making the playoffs regularly (and are ahead of our curve):
Colorado: Duchene/Landy/Johnson/MacKinnon/(traded O'Reilly for Zadorov/Grigorenko)
Florida:Barkov/Bjugstad/Ekblad/(now Crouse)/Huberdeau
Edmonton:4 out of 6 years 1st overalls.
Dallas:Benn/Seguin/Nikushkin/Klingberg
Buffalo:Ahead of our curve
And so on.
We have a lot of work to do.
Still more years of drafting and developing.

Came to say this. The other teams are staying put. Our "rebuild" is the same thing most every other team is doing. Even Chicago and Los Angeles are doing this, selling off timely assets to get high draft picks to keep their gravy trains flowing.

 

[namttebih]

because we already have two tank years under our belt, which were supposed to be playoff years....

so we're two years ahead of the curve, now were officiallty rebuilding.

so if we tank for one more year (thats 4 top 10 picks), it will be 4 years of tanking under our belt.

Marner
Nylander
Rielly


Auston Matthews/Jacub Chychurun

XXX (2017)

Thats more than enough top 10 picks to make a good team, hopefully some our later pick guys like Bracco, Dermott turn out good and we're set.

Kadri is also only 24. JVR just turned 26. Both top ten picks.

JVR
Marner
Rielly
Kadri
Nylander
Bernier
Gauthier
Kapanen
Holland
Gardiner
Percy
Finn
Dermott
Bracco
Marincin
Panik
Harrington

All first or second round picks in their late teens to mid twenties.


It's about time that we hit a home run with a player like Brown as well.

 

[TheLeafsBro]

I suppose without the collapses, there would have been no evident need for a rebuild in the first place!

And perpetual mediocrity, bad management running the organization, and more clarkson contracts would have been the result. Thank God for those collapses.

 

[Hotel Mario]

Clever OP

The collapses, in the VERY long term, I do agree were the best things to ever happen to the franchise.

- I'll keep my point very simple, if the Leafs had made the playoffs the rotten core would still be intact, and Dave Nonis would have his job. Today we are looking at a VERY painful but necessary rebuild to slowly undo the damage of Nonis and the rotten core.

 

[namttebih]

Nylander Marner Kapanen
Bracco. Kadri JVR
Brown Holland Johnson
Leipsic Gauthier Panik


Dermott Rielly
Nilsson Loov
Finn Percy
Gardiner Marincin
Harrington

Bernier
Bibeau

Good start on the future. A couple more strong drafts with proper development and we have something to actually look forward to.

 

[cheeeko]

And perpetual mediocrity, bad management running the organization, and more clarkson contracts would have been the result. Thank God for those collapses.

Well yeah. That's why I used the word evident.

The collapses were fantastic for us

 

[Super Mega]

Its actually a really happy time to be a leaf fan - slowly fans are starting to realize this.

 

[HellasLEAF]

It was absolutely worth it.

We should have been doing this rebuild when Burke took over. Leafs would be year, years ahead in the development department.

But old habits die hard. I guess what they needed was a real embarrassing type season to finally drive the nail home that the old way isn't working and never will work.

I'm happy with the current status of the club. This is the way to success. Hopefully.

 

[namttebih]

It was absolutely worth it.

We should have been doing this rebuild when Burke took over. Leafs would be year, years ahead in the development department.

But old habits die hard. I guess what they needed was a real embarrassing type season to finally drive the nail home that the old way isn't working and never will work.

I'm happy with the current status of the club. This is the way to success. Hopefully.

The crazy thing is that this was the overwhelming sentiment shared throughout Leaf Nation for years now. Were Burke then Nonis that ignorant?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Well this is the thing
Everyone knew that the Leafs should have been rebuilding basically since Burke came in. And then you have the combination of the Teachers Pension wanting to sell the team + Burke, in my estimation, fully thinking he could wheel and deal himself a viable team . And even if you wanted to argue that it could have worked - if you look at Burke's drafting, it wasn't that very good.

And who the hell knows what Nonis was doing once he had his hands on this team.

 

[Stats01]

Yeah but the last 3-4 years werent really considered "rebuild years".

The team intended to contend. Now we officially tanked one year, after next years draft we will probally be set in terms of having a deep deep prospect pool, and thats two years in total of actually tanking and rebuilding.


Tampa and Islanders, they were bad for a pretty long time. IMO we make playoffs in 2017-2018, or atleast get very close, hopefully with NHL ready prospects such as Matthews, Chychurun and/or Logan Brown.

This isnt a plan where we tank for a limited amount of years and just stop and gi for the cup...this is how this franchise is going to operate every year...now will there be years where we spend some assets for the present yes..but I dont think shanahan/dubas/hunter are going to just change philosophies after an arbitrary number of years. This is a new era, a new mindset now and going forward.