Post-Game Talk: Remember that winning streak we had?

[Leronziia]

I'm just glad we picked up 2 guys with genuine scope to develop into top 4 D-men.

Cholowski is a neat skater and he can move the puck damn well, thought I read somewhere that they rated his passing as his best asset.

Long way to go yet, certainly not losing sleep over passing up Fabbro.

Cholowski is 5p in 8g, Fabbro is 2p in 7g.

 

[Winger98]

Why use Fischer?

Fischer was great in a tiny, low-pressure role as a 19 year old.

Then he ****ing sucked, in some part due to that M/ACL sprain/tear (can't remember), for the next 4-5 years.

Then, in the season where he finally looked back to form, the fall-out happened, and he never played again.

Just a terrible comparison all-around. We might as well harken back to Mike Babcock calling for a 19 year-old Kindl to make the team out of camp as well.

Because he was the last 19 year old to actually make the Wings. And he stepped onto the defending Stanley Cup champs, that's not a no-pressure environment. He was clearly protected, but there's pressure taking a spot on that sort of club.

And I disagree that Fischer sucked. I think he played like a young guy finding his game before being forced into retirement at 25, a season where he looked to finally be putting it all together.

You might not like the comparison, but find another 18-19 year old defenceman who actually made the Wings out of camp and stuck with the team.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's not just Chyruchin either, it's Fabbro too. We could have had either, but instead we dumped Datsyuk's contract to plug the roster with more dead cap.

For what it's worth, Cholo is at least putting up better numbers than Fabbro so far. Hronek is also doing very well and pretty much everything points to that having the potential to be a very, very good pick.

Right, but when the franchise hasn't drafted a very good defenseman in over a decade, pardon my skepticism regarding their praise of their own work.

The franchise has also drafted like 3 d-men in the top 20 in the last 30+ years. Not exactly a huge sample size even if you expand it to the entire 1st round. Anyway you look at it a guy like Cholowski is some of the best "raw material" we've had to work with on defense in ages.

 

[jkutswings]

I understand where you're coming from, but it's not enough to say "there are new people involved." The whole braintrust of the scouts is different. TW was a Red Wings RIVAL scout literally two weeks before he was named head scout. It's not like this is some recycled/upcycled brass. Truly foreign eyes were brought in. It's like saying we should blame Babcock for Dave Lewis' mistakes.

Second, the quality of defenseman we've drafted says little considering the quantity. Again, that's the fault of different eyes from the ones we have now but also a question for management in their discretion. A GM or AGM can always demand that a head scout draft for position. We should've drafted more D over the past two decades; we don't know how they'd turn out but more kicks at the can....

I agree with much of what you're saying, but it doesn't change the fact that the new kids in town talking up their picks doesn't in any way mean they'll turn into good to great players.

Or do these people already have a ton of cache, prior to arriving, for drafting great defensemen?

 

[jkutswings]

For what it's worth, Cholo is at least putting up better numbers than Fabbro so far. Hronek is also doing very well and pretty much everything points to that having the potential to be a very, very good pick.


The franchise has also drafted like 3 d-men in the top 20 in the last 30+ years. Not exactly a huge sample size even if you expand it to the entire 1st round. Anyway you look at it a guy like Cholowski is some of the best "raw material" we've had to work with on defense in ages.

I don't disagree that there's potential. But every pick is a crapshoot to some extent, and changing staff doesn't automatically mean better, just different (see Babcock to Blashill, at least thus far).

I'm not saying change wasn't needed, or that I don't expect them to be better. But a decade of mediocre draft results doesn't change overnight, and even highly rated players bust out all the time, whether at their initial tier of minor league play, or at any rung going up the ladder.

Cholo might end up being really good. But saying he's run the first half mile of a marathon really well doesn't mean much.

That's why I've been such a proponent of a major rebuild with high picks. The needles in the haystack are statistically bigger at the top, and in a process that's tough to do any way you slice it, I'll maximize my chances any way I can.

 

[Run the Jewels]

But a decade of mediocre draft results doesn't change overnight, and even highly rated players bust out all the time, whether at their initial tier of minor league play, or at any rung going up the ladder.

Cholo might end up being really good. But saying he's run the first half mile of a marathon really well doesn't mean much.

That's why I've been such a proponent of a major rebuild with high picks. The needles in the haystack are statistically bigger at the top, and in a process that's tough to do any way you slice it, I'll maximize my chances any way I can.

Yeah this thread is going way off the rails so I'll be brief. The biggest shortcoming to Ken Holland's retool on the fly is that he has not traded first round draft picks and the overwhelming majority of those first rounders - the ones with the best statistical odds of turning into really good players - have largely been either total busts or very average NHL players.

Sure Cholo looks good right now but Jakub Kindl nearly made the Wings as a 19 year old after a really good OHL career. Ryan Sproul was the CHL d-man of the year and Blashill won't even play him despite the fact we have one of the worst defenses in the entire league.

So the only way I think we can feel good about a draft pick is if it's one who can compete in the NHL very quickly. Larkin is the best example to date after spending one year in college before joining the Wings. There's no way that happens with Cholo, he'll likely get 3 years in college and at least 2 years in the AHL. There's simply no way to know whether he'll be any good within the next 4 years. Brendan Smith was a hobey baker finalist and he's been a pretty big disappointment as a pro.