Reference - VsX comprehensive summary (1927 to 2023)

[Hockey Outsider]

Haha, thanks. I had a feeling you would grant one of my two requests! (didnt think it would be so quickly, though)

Mario doesnt look amazing here, even reduced to five seasons…. although maybe thats because he spent his whole career with off the charts number 2’s…..

edit - whereas Wayne and Jaromir had some prime withOUT mario.

Howe, Jagr and McD look amazing here, to me, when considering that Orr, Espo and young Wayne got to play in the least balanced league.

No problem. These were a pain to set up initially (10+ years ago) but now it's trivially easy for me to run different reports.

The issue with Lemieux is lack of full seasons. If we give him credit for 80 games in any of the years where he's at 70 or fewer, he'd be up to around 142 for five years (which would put him 2nd only to Gretzky). It's probably more complex than that, as maybe the benchmark would change in some of those years, but this is probably a reasonable ballpark estimate.

 

[Dingo]

its a lot to formulate my thoughts, a lot to look at, but, i think i like it
and i sure appreciate the data and your attitude. amazing.

i dont want to get carried away here, but im going to just type my poorly
constructed thoughts…

I cant speak to pre 1980s too much (but Howe passing Espo here sits very well with me)

but, is it right that the players from the deeper era (mid nineties) and the real parity era (2005-) not getting the same perks as the 80s guys actually makes sense as there is a greater disparity between 2nd and 5th inside of shallower leagues than there is in balanced leagues??

i thought that out as well as i could… have had whisky…


the numbers look good to me is all i can say for sure.

 

[Dingo]

it does seem to benefit 06 a lot…

like, maybe, when two of the teams werent good, 5th place may have been lagging, much moreso than nowadays…
i dunno

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Nothing wrong with that, sometimes the best thoughts come after a bit of whiskey (and sometimes the worst thoughts come after too much).

Here's how I think about it. In the 21st century, 5th place (as a benchmark) is a really high standard. There are now 96 first-line forwards (obviously it's not the same 96 forwards every game, and that ignores defensemen, but hear me out). 5th place works out to about the 95th percentile for first-line forwards. In the Original Six days, 5th place (as a benchmark) works out to roughly the 67th percentile for first-line forwards. So using a fixed benchmark (of X place in scoring) is going to be tougher for players in a larger league.

That criticism can be made of VsX as well, but because it's not "fixed" in the same way, the benchmark can move around a bit if there's someone that's really skewing the results (generally that would be Gretzky, Orr and his teammates, and WWII).

Once, I toyed around with a floating benchmark based on the size of the league (so it might be 6th place in the Original Six era, 32nd place today), but those results didn't make any sense (too punitive to players from the Original Six era). I haven't been able to figure out exactly how or why the method didn't work though.

(EDIT - I don't think the quality of the league is necessarily the same as the number of teams. Expansion is a business decision. The league clearly was higher quality in 1967 compared to 1933, even though the league was 50% larger in 1933. But a large number of teams gives more players a chance to get enough ice time to become a 1st line player, which explains why it's more common for a player to have a surprising/unexpected now compared to in the past).

 

[jigglysquishy]

I've always looked at a VsX of 125 as a peak season of a generational talent. That's a Crosby 2011 if healthy. Jagr 99. Bobby Hull 66. Lafleur 77. Very rare. Maybe a once in 10 year type season. Ovechkin never hit it. McDavid only hit it once.

Lemieux was basically playing at a VsX 125 or higher level from 1987 until retirement (save some injury riddled years). That's not a knock. He averaged a peak Crosby or Jagr for 10 years.

A VsX 150 is a different category. It's getting 50% more points than an average second place. It's only been hit 10 times in NHL history. 5 times by Gretzky. 3 times by Orr and Espo. Then Howe and McDavid 2021. It's the rare of the rare.

Lemieux only played at that level in 3 seasons. 89, 93, and 96. And he missed time each year. So his VsX isn't "pulled down". It's just that a VsX over 125 is so rare. It's only been hit 23 times ever in NHL history, 19 of which are by the Big Four and Espo. You have maybe another dozen seasons where a player was playing at that level but missed time or lost on a technicality.

Yes, Gretzky's VsX7 is over 125. But that's more a testament to the insanity of his stats than a knock on Lemieux.

 

[MadLuke]

but, is it right that the players from the deeper era (mid nineties) and the real parity era (2005-) not getting the same perks as the 80s guys actually makes sense as there is a greater disparity between 2nd and 5th inside of shallower leagues than there is in balanced leagues??

Everything that is relative to peers metric need to be looked has such, how much someone did relative to the peers and kept in mind that the quality of peers could (will) fluctuate over time.

And no easy to script method (if anything) would be perfect at adjusting for the quality of peers issues, their quality of peers and quality of opportunity has well (does almost all of the best competition of the world playing first line minutes-first unit PP with valid teammate or some burrowed in deeper role because they are on a really strong team in a league with few spots or a bad team facing really good one all the time).

There are 3 ways to goes here and not necessarily one more valid than the other, present pure raw numbers of point production relative to the peers and let the readers adjust in their minds for the quality of competition they faced, adjust a little bit for aberration (1989 for example or 93) if you compare to the X top scorers or try to adjust to use a more stable over time barometer.

One that could be not too controversial way to do the later could be to use the average top Canadians or the X top Canadians player for your metric, something that I imagine should move way less overtime and remove claim of helping 06 players that faced only Canadians and so on or the what if krutov-karlamov or the Larionov-Makarov were in the league and not just the Stastny.

But it would be far from perfect, the 87 to 94 average top Canadian forward being maybe uncontroversially way stronger than the 2002 to 2006 one, so always providing the raw value at the same time would be useful.

 

[Dingo]

I've always looked at a VsX of 125 as a peak season of a generational talent. That's a Crosby 2011 if healthy. Jagr 99. Bobby Hull 66. Lafleur 77. Very rare. Maybe a once in 10 year type season. Ovechkin never hit it. McDavid only hit it once.

Lemieux was basically playing at a VsX 125 or higher level from 1987 until retirement (save some injury riddled years). That's not a knock. He averaged a peak Crosby or Jagr for 10 years.

A VsX 150 is a different category. It's getting 50% more points than an average second place. It's only been hit 10 times in NHL history. 5 times by Gretzky. 3 times by Orr and Espo. Then Howe and McDavid 2021. It's the rare of the rare.

Lemieux only played at that level in 3 seasons. 89, 93, and 96. And he missed time each year. So his VsX isn't "pulled down". It's just that a VsX over 125 is so rare. It's only been hit 23 times ever in NHL history, 19 of which are by the Big Four and Espo. You have maybe another dozen seasons where a player was playing at that level but missed time or lost on a technicality.

Yes, Gretzky's VsX7 is over 125. But that's more a testament to the insanity of his stats than a knock on Lemieux.

i THINK (never sure!) that this is the very reason I like Vs more than #2. (As Outsider explained to me - 5 MAY be too deep considering league depth)

Mario never really had a year without another generational OFFENSIVE talent, in order to obliterate #2, as he had Gretzky right up until the time that Jagr truly emerged. Gretzky had 5 seasons pre Mario… and Im a huge Stastny fan, and of course Dionne and Bossy are beauts… but its not the same. Jagr, once Mario was injured had Sakic and Forsberg. Neither were at this epic level offensively/didnt play an all put offensive game, and one of them was broken all the time.

Seriously looking at your post again and wondering if there is really even a connection to mine….. but im going to leave it up as I do feel vs2 allows for too much fluctuation based off of who number 2 was, and who he played with and was he healthy, that year

 

[Dingo]

If you could run one more for me……

vs3, best 3 years

Id be curious…

oh, and are you able, easily, to do this for even strength points??

 

[Hockey Outsider]

If you could run one more for me……

vs3, best 3 years

Id be curious…

oh, and are you able, easily, to do this for even strength points??

VsX - best three years, top 250

Player	Result
Wayne Gretzky	165.6
Phil Esposito	151.1
Bobby Orr	142.7
Gordie Howe	139.6
Mario Lemieux	135.2
Connor McDavid	123.8
Jaromir Jagr	123.0
Howie Morenz	121.4
Guy Lafleur	120.6
Stan Mikita	119.2
Bobby Hull	116.7
Marcel Dionne	114.5
Jean Beliveau	114.2
Charlie Conacher	114.1
Ted Lindsay	113.3
Bill Cowley	112.1
Leon Draisaitl	110.3
Bill Cook	109.0
Sidney Crosby	108.3
Joe Sakic	107.6
Maurice Richard	107.5
Bryan Trottier	106.7
Ken Hodge	105.4
Andy Bathgate	105.3
Patrick Kane	105.2
Evgeni Malkin	105.0
Joe Thornton	105.0
Sweeney Schriner	104.9
Dickie Moore	104.7
Syl Apps Sr	104.5
Martin St. Louis	104.4
Max Bentley	104.4
Milt Schmidt	103.9
Gordie Drillon	103.7
Mike Bossy	102.0
Alex Ovechkin	101.9
Nikita Kucherov	101.3
Steve Yzerman	101.3
Joe Primeau	100.8
Frank Boucher	100.8
John Bucyk	100.2
Busher Jackson	99.9
Peter Forsberg	99.5
Elmer Lach	99.5
Markus Naslund	98.9
Bobby Clarke	98.6
Bernie Geoffrion	98.6
Ace Bailey	98.5
Brett Hull	98.5
Pavel Bure	98.2
Claude Giroux	98.2
Doug Bentley	98.2
Teemu Selanne	98.2
Norm Ullman	98.1
Bryan Hextall	98.1
Henri Richard	98.0
Jari Kurri	97.8
Peter Stastny	97.6
Sid Abel	97.5
Steven Stamkos	97.4
Jamie Benn	97.3
Paul Coffey	97.2
Mark Messier	97.1
Marty Barry	97.0
Adam Oates	96.4
Nels Stewart	95.9
Cooney Weiland	95.7
Aurel Joliat	95.4
Syd Howe	95.3
Jarome Iginla	95.3
Darryl Sittler	95.1
Brad Marchand	95.1
Nathan MacKinnon	95.1
Lynn Patrick	94.9
Mark Recchi	94.7
Paul Thompson	94.6
Jean Ratelle	94.4
Eric Lindros	94.2
Henrik Sedin	94.2
Dale Hawerchuk	93.8
Ron Francis	93.6
Denis Savard	93.4
Nicklas Backstrom	93.4
Larry Aurie	92.8
Ilya Kovalchuk	92.7
Paul Kariya	92.2
Toe Blake	92.1
Hooley Smith	92.1
Doug Gilmour	91.8
Dany Heatley	91.6
Gilbert Perreault	91.5
Bobby Bauer	91.5
Roy Conacher	91.3
Michel Goulet	91.2
Patrik Elias	91.2
Phil Kessel	91.1
Bernie Nicholls	91.1
Rick MacLeish	91.1
Daniel Alfredsson	91.0
Frank Mahovlich	91.0
Jason Allison	90.8
Daniel Sedin	90.5
Ziggy Palffy	90.3
Taylor Hall	90.3
Auston Matthews	90.1
Sergei Fedorov	89.7
Jonathan Huberdeau	89.6
Marian Hossa	89.6
John LeClair	89.6
Ryan Getzlaf	89.6
Luc Robitaille	89.5
Alex Delvecchio	89.5
Artemi Panarin	89.5
Tyler Seguin	89.4
Neil Colville	89.3
Johnny Gaudreau	89.2
Bobby Rousseau	89.1
Kenny Wharram	88.7
John Tavares	88.7
Pavel Datsyuk	88.6
Rod Gilbert	88.4
Pete Mahovlich	88.4
Paul Ronty	88.3
Bill Thoms	88.2
Eric Staal	88.2
Baldy Northcott	88.2
Ted Kennedy	88.1
Ed Litzenberger	87.7
Theoren Fleury	87.7
Corey Perry	87.7
Billy Taylor	87.6
Alexei Yashin	87.6
Milan Hejduk	87.6
Alex Kovalev	87.5
Mitch Marner	87.5
Bert Olmstead	87.4
Phil Watson	87.4
Pat LaFontaine	87.2
Alexander Mogilny	87.1
Mats Sundin	87.1
Herbie Lewis	87.1
Phil Goyette	87.1
Jeremy Roenick	87.0
Clint Smith	86.9
Brad Richards	86.7
Blake Wheeler	86.7
Joe Pavelski	86.6
Cecil Dillon	86.4
Pavol Demitra	86.4
Mike Modano	86.4
Paul Haynes	86.4
Kent Nilsson	86.4
Mark Scheifele	86.2
Syl Apps	86.1
Jason Spezza	86.1
Jakub Voracek	86.1
Mikko Rantanen	86.0
Greg Adams	86.0
Erik Karlsson	85.9
Woody Dumart	85.8
Vincent Lecavalier	85.8
Doug Weight	85.8
Pierre Turgeon	85.6
Todd Bertuzzi	85.6
Jacques Lemaire	85.5
Kevin Stevens	85.3
Marc Savard	85.2
Denis Potvin	85.2
Art Chapman	85.1
Dit Clapper	85.0
David Pastrnak	85.0
Anze Kopitar	84.6
Steve Shutt	84.6
Ebbie Goodfellow	84.4
Barry Pederson	84.2
Tod Sloan	84.2
Vladimir Tarasenko	84.1
Henrik Zetterberg	83.9
Brendan Shanahan	83.8
Wayne Cashman	83.7
Gaye Stewart	83.5
Bernie Federko	83.1
Raymond Bourque	83.0
Martin Straka	82.7
Peter Bondra	82.6
Bronco Horvath	82.6
Keith Tkachuk	82.4
Dutch Reibel	82.3
Brian Leetch	82.2
Don McKenney	82.0
John McKenzie	81.8
Bun Cook	81.8
Buddy O'Connor	81.8
Lorne Carr	81.8
Rick Martin	81.8
Alex Tanguay	81.5
Lanny McDonald	81.5
Pit Martin	81.5
Dennis Maruk	81.5
Aleksander Barkov	81.1
Robert Lang	81.1
Tony Amonte	81.0
Yvan Cournoyer	80.9
Walt Tkaczuk	80.7
Johnny Gottselig	80.6
Rick Middleton	80.5
Brent Burns	80.4
Bill Guerin	80.4
Murray Oliver	80.2
Bill Mosienko	80.1
Red Kelly	80.0
Eddie Wiseman	79.7
Mickey Redmond	79.7
Jonathan Toews	79.7
Mike Ribeiro	79.7
Tom Anderson	79.6
Bill Barber	79.6
Charlie Simmer	79.6
Steve Larmer	79.4
Glenn Anderson	79.3
Patrick Marleau	79.2
Tim Kerr	79.1
Dave Taylor	79.0
Johnny Gagnon	78.9
Pierre Larouche	78.9
Glen Murray	78.8
Vic Stasiuk	78.7
Petr Nedved	78.7
Mike Rogers	78.7
Evgeny Kuznetsov	78.6
Dave Keon	78.6
Fred Stanfield	78.5
Rene Robert	78.5
Marian Gaborik	78.5
Joe Mullen	78.2
Rod Brind'Amour	78.2
Dennis Hull	78.2
George Hay	78.1
Scott Gomez	78.1
Jim Pappin	78.0
Fleming MacKell	77.9
John Cullen	77.8
Dino Ciccarelli	77.7
Red Berenson	77.6
Sid Smith	77.6
Doc Romnes	77.6
Zach Parise	77.6
Owen Nolan	77.6
Patrick Sharp	77.5
Chris Kunitz	77.4

The big "disclaimer" here is VsX was never intended to compare single seasons. Looking at three years, it's better, but there's still some noise. (There are some surprising results, like Draisaitl > Crosby, Ken Hodge > Bathgate, Kane and Malkin, and Schriner > Bossy, Ovechkin and Yzerman).

I'll have to dig up ES VsX. I had that at one point in time, but I don't think I've kept it up to date.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

This entire thread has been updated for 2023. I'll give my standard disclaimer - all data has been presented in good faith, but if you see any errors, let me know.

McDavid won his fifth Art Ross trophy in the past seven years. He now has the 5th highest seven-year peak (116.1). He's behind only the Big Four (indirectly in the case of Bobby Orr, who helped Phil Esposito, at least to some extent). He moved into the top 30 for ten-years peaks (which is incredible, because he's only played eight seasons, and he missed half of his rookie year). He also looks great in terms of assists, where he has the 8th highest seven-year peak. McDavid now has 867 VsX career points, which is a bit higher than his unadjusted (actual) result.

Draisaitl had another very strong year. He now has the 18th highest seven-year peak. He moved ahead of some big names, including Ovechkin, Sakic and Yzerman. He still has lots of room to move up (as his 7th best season was his solid but unspectacular 2018 campaign).

In terms of raw stats, Crosby just posted the 7th highest scoring season of his career. It was a good year, of course, but that's also a result of leaguewide scoring being higher. Based on this method, it was only his 13th most productive season. That doesn't do anything for his 7- or 10-year peak calculations. But it pushes his career totals higher. Crosby now ranks 10th in VsX career points. If he repeats this season, Crosby will move into 4th place all-time (behind only Howe, Gretzky, and Jagr).

Ovechkin just had the second least-productive season of his career based on this method. He still ranks 15th in VsX career points. Barring something unforeseen, he'll retire 5th all-time in VsX career points. And although this season didn't move the needle in terms of his 7- or 10-year peak for goals, he became only the 2nd player in NHL history (after Howe) to reach 900 VsX career goals.

Kane had a disappointing season. He looked disinterested in Chicago, and didn't really seem to click in New York. Still, he became the 25th player in NHL history to reach 1,300 VsX career points.

Karlsson now has the 3rd highest seven-year peak among defensemen. (Though he's closer to Bourque and Kelly than he is to Coffey - let alone Orr).

After missing the entire 2021 regular season, and close to half of 2022, Kucherov had a great comeback year. He's now in the top 40 in terms of seven-year peaks. He has the potential to climb much higher, as that calculation still includes his 2015 and 2016 campaigns (when he was good, but not a star).

MacKinnon is just outside the top 50 in terms of seven-year peaks. He'll surely climb the ranks over the next few years.

 

[jigglysquishy]

The snow is gone. The regular season is over. @Hockey Outsider has updated all my favourite threads.

Spring has sprung.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

The snow is gone. The regular season is over. @Hockey Outsider has updated all my favourite threads.

Spring has sprung.

Normally when I post these updates, it's still cool outside. I'm usually drinking tea and wearing a sweater. There's still a bit of snow on the ground. But we've had a heat wave in Toronto over the past week. I'm pretty sure I gave myself mild heat stroke yesterday (I did a 25 km hike with only one bottle of water, with a temperature peaking near 30 - not smart). At least I have an excuse to stay inside tonight and updated these threads. Another regular season is in the books!

 

[BenchBrawl]

This entire thread has been updated for 2023. I'll give my standard disclaimer - all data has been presented in good faith, but if you see any errors, let me know.

McDavid won his fifth Art Ross trophy in the past seven years. He now has the 5th highest seven-year peak (116.1). He's behind only the Big Four (indirectly in the case of Bobby Orr, who helped Phil Esposito, at least to some extent). He moved into the top 30 for ten-years peaks (which is incredible, because he's only played eight seasons, and he missed half of his rookie year). He also looks great in terms of assists, where he has the 8th highest seven-year peak. McDavid now has 867 VsX career points, which is a bit higher than his unadjusted (actual) result.

Draisaitl had another very strong year. He now has the 18th highest seven-year peak. He moved ahead of some big names, including Ovechkin, Sakic and Yzerman. He still has lots of room to move up (as his 7th best season was his solid but unspectacular 2018 campaign).

In terms of raw stats, Crosby just posted the 7th highest scoring season of his career. It was a good year, of course, but that's also a result of leaguewide scoring being higher. Based on this method, it was only his 13th most productive season. That doesn't do anything for his 7- or 10-year peak calculations. But it pushes his career totals higher. Crosby now ranks 10th in VsX career points. If he repeats this season, Crosby will move into 4th place all-time (behind only Howe, Gretzky, and Jagr).

Ovechkin just had the second least-productive season of his career based on this method. He still ranks 15th in VsX career points. Barring something unforeseen, he'll retire 5th all-time in VsX career points. And although this season didn't move the needle in terms of his 7- or 10-year peak for goals, he became only the 2nd player in NHL history (after Howe) to reach 900 VsX career goals.

Kane had a disappointing season. He looked disinterested in Chicago, and didn't really seem to click in New York. Still, he became the 25th player in NHL history to reach 1,300 VsX career points.

Karlsson now has the 3rd highest seven-year peak among defensemen. (Though he's closer to Bourque and Kelly than he is to Coffey - let alone Orr).

After missing the entire 2021 regular season, and close to half of 2022, Kucherov had a great comeback year. He's now in the top 40 in terms of seven-year peaks. He has the potential to climb much higher, as that calculation still includes his 2015 and 2016 campaigns (when he was good, but not a star).

MacKinnon is just outside the top 50 in terms of seven-year peaks. He'll surely climb the ranks over the next few years.

Thank you for all the work you do.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Appreciate all the effort as always @Hockey Outsider

 

[jigglysquishy]

Doing some quick math,

If McDavid repeats this year he overtakes Lemieux’s VsX7. If he does it again after that he overtakes Howe.

Yet, Gretzky had 7 years with a higher VsX than McDavid had this year.

 

[Vilica]

I thought the VsX was going to be 113, but it's always nice to have confirmation. It actually matches (to the closest approximation) what the league average of 258 goals says VsX should be. This season also matches the league average in 95-96, when Lemieux scored 161 and Jagr 149. The Penguins scored nearly 40 more goals than the Oilers though, fueled by a wealth of power play opportunities - they scored 109 power play goals on 420 opportunities compared to the Oilers 89 on 275 opportunities. Lemieux and Jagr dragged a couple of teammates to high scoring finishes as well, just like McDavid and Draisaitl.

Historically, one of the seasons closest to this level of league scoring was the 46-47 season, which is one of the biggest discrepancies between the actual VsX and what the scoring level says it should be. Max Bentley put up 72 points in 60 games, and converting his stats to 82 games yields roughly 39 goals and 98 points, or about what Jack Hughes did.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I'll post the updated VsX tables soon. Before doing that, let me know if any of these benchmarks look incorrect:

• Goals - the benchmark is Hyman's 54 goals (3rd). Matthews is an outlier.
• Assists - I believe the "Bathgate" rule applies here. The benchmark is MacKinnon's 89 assists (he's 12% behind Kucherov/McDavid, but 19% ahead of Panarin).
• Points - I believe the "Bathgate" rule applies here as well. The benchmark is Panarin's 120 points (he's 10% behind McDavid, but 9% ahead of Pastrnak).

Before I run the numbers, any disagreements? Usually it's easy to figure out what the benchmarks are, but it's tougher this year due to the three players ahead of everyone.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I'll post the updated VsX tables soon. Before doing that, let me know if any of these benchmarks look incorrect:

• Goals - the benchmark is Hyman's 54 goals (3rd). Matthews is an outlier.
• Assists - I believe the "Bathgate" rule applies here. The benchmark is MacKinnon's 89 assists (he's 12% behind Kucherov/McDavid, but 19% ahead of Panarin).
• Points - I believe the "Bathgate" rule applies here as well. The benchmark is Panarin's 120 points (he's 10% behind McDavid, but 9% ahead of Pastrnak).

Before I run the numbers, any disagreements? Usually it's easy to figure out what the benchmarks are, but it's tougher this year due to the three players ahead of everyone.

Those are my interpretations as well for points and assists.

Wouldn't Reinhart be the benchmark for goals though?

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'll post the updated VsX tables soon. Before doing that, let me know if any of these benchmarks look incorrect:

• Goals - the benchmark is Hyman's 54 goals (3rd). Matthews is an outlier.
• Assists - I believe the "Bathgate" rule applies here. The benchmark is MacKinnon's 89 assists (he's 12% behind Kucherov/McDavid, but 19% ahead of Panarin).
• Points - I believe the "Bathgate" rule applies here as well. The benchmark is Panarin's 120 points (he's 10% behind McDavid, but 9% ahead of Pastrnak).

Before I run the numbers, any disagreements? Usually it's easy to figure out what the benchmarks are, but it's tougher this year due to the three players ahead of everyone.

Can you elaborate on which method you used to determine that Hyman was the benchmark for goals, instead of using the #2 goal scorer?

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Wouldn't Reinhart be the benchmark for goals though?

Can you elaborate on which method you used to determine that Hyman was the benchmark for goals, instead of using the #2 goal scorer?

I think I was over-thinking it. Yes, Reinhardt should be the benchmark. Let me know if anyone disagrees.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I think I was over-thinking it. Yes, Reinhardt should be the benchmark. Let me know if anyone disagrees.

Been a long time since I toyed with VsX benchmarks. The Bathgate rule has precedence over all, I think, so the assists and points benchmarks should be right, although I'm not sure anymore what happens if there's two Bathgate rules in the same year, or if the Orr rule could interfere with it, because I don't remember exactly what the Orr rule is anymore.

 

[rmartin65]

I’d love to get a quick rundown of what the various rules are, and the order in which you go through them.

I’ll confess that I only did a quick precursory search, so I apologize if it is readily available somewhere.

 

[jigglysquishy]

The Orr rule doesn't have a formula that can be applied outside Orr. It's basically, Orr influenced Bruins were so far ahead of everyone that normal rules don't work.

If we ended up with RNH as the benchmark last year (so, Oilers 1 2 3) you could invoke it.

This isn't really the same situation as Bathgate, but I do believe 120 is the best benchmark to pick

I’d love to get a quick rundown of what the various rules are, and the order in which you go through them.

I’ll confess that I only did a quick precursory search, so I apologize if it is readily available somewhere.

The rules are all in this thread, but the specific link is to the Orr rule.

Post-consolidation VsX Benchmarks

Just applied percentages with team subjective weight given to each attribute. That sounds...entirely subjective and arbitrary. How do you confirm that the subjective weights are appropriate? How do you confirm that all relevant factors are considered? How do you confirm that no irrelevant...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[BenchBrawl]

Seems like the Orr rule is:

In a season in which a defenseman places in the top-2 in scoring:

1) His score is removed.

and

2) Forwards from his team at the top of the scoring table (before scorers from other teams) have their scores normalized to #2 + 5% for purposes of VsX benchmarking.

It applied to a Coffey season too.

 

[rmartin65]

The Orr rule doesn't have a formula that can be applied outside Orr. It's basically, Orr influenced Bruins were so far ahead of everyone that normal rules don't work.

If we ended up with RNH as the benchmark last year (so, Oilers 1 2 3) you could invoke it.

This isn't really the same situation as Bathgate, but I do believe 120 is the best benchmark to pick


The rules are all in this thread, but the specific link is to the Orr rule.

Post-consolidation VsX Benchmarks

Just applied percentages with team subjective weight given to each attribute. That sounds...entirely subjective and arbitrary. How do you confirm that the subjective weights are appropriate? How do you confirm that all relevant factors are considered? How do you confirm that no irrelevant...

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Awesome, thank you