Red Wings U23 team

[Henkka]

LW	CE	RW
Rasmussen -99	Larkin -96	Zadina -99
Athanasiou -94	Veleno -00	Mantha -94
Berggren -00	BIG NEED	Svechnikov -96
Bertuzzi -95	Pearson -97	G.Smith -98
Holmström -96	Turgeon -96	Pope -94
Kivenmäki -00	Ehn -96	O'Reilly -00
Gilmour -99	Gallant -99	Adams -97
Elfström -97	Zablocki -98

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

LD	RD
Cholowski -98	Hronek -97
McIsaac -00	Lindström -98
Hicketts -96	Regula -00
Kotkansalo -98	Saarijärvi -97
Setkov -99	Holway -96
Malmström -98	Barton -99
	Fraser -99

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Goalies

Fulcher -98

Larsson -98

Petruzzelli -99

Pottelberghe -97

Eliasson -00

Brattström -97

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Click to read more...

 

[Henkka]

Is this thread visible or not?

Am I the only one having weird problems today? Threads will disappear and then come back to visible.

 

[Larkin2AA]

I’m having the same error. If you click the time since the last post it works.

 

[Oddbob]

Is this thread visible or not?

Am I the only one having weird problems today? Threads will disappear and then come back to visible.

I am having all kinds of issues with things showing one second, and the next, things will be gone. Been going back and forth like that all day.

 

[Bench]

I am having all kinds of issues with things showing one second, and the next, things will be gone. Been going back and forth like that all day.

Forums have been a hot mess. It's not just you guys, it's all of us.

 

[Henkka]

What comes to that U23 team, I created to get a clearer picture of our future core. I always hate some prospect rankings, because it doesn't tell the team level anything, if some McDavid in "graduated".

Still we have obvious holes, but not as many as before. Interesting to see if David Pope can help etc.

 

[Henkka]

Players in draft pick order:

#6	W	Filip Zadina	6'1, Left	CZE
#9	C	Michael Rasmussen	6'6, Left	CAN
#15	C	Dylan Larkin	6'2, Left	USA
#19	W	Evgeny Svechnikov	6'2, Left	RUS
#20	W	Anthony Mantha	6'5, Left	CAN
#30	C	Joe Veleno	6'1, Left	CAN
#32	W	Jonatan Berggren	5'10, Left	SWE
#46	W	Givani Smith	6'2, Left	CAN
#58	W	Tyler Bertuzzi	6'0, Left	CAN
#63	C	Dominic Turgeon	6'2, Left	CAN
#79	RW	Lane Zablocki	6'0, Right	CAN
#83	C	Zachary Gallant	6'2, Left	CAN
#98	RW	Ryan O'Reilly	6'2, Right	USA
#106	C	Christoffer Ehn	6'2, Left	SWE
#109	W	David Pope	6'3, Left	CAN
#110	F	Andreas Athanasiou	6'2, Left	CAN
#140	C	Chase Pearson	6'3, Left	CAN
#162	RW	Jack Adams	6'5, Right	USA
#191	F	Otto Kivenmäki	5'8, Left	FIN
#193	C	Brady Gilmour	5'11, Left	CAN
#196	C	Axel Holmström	6'0, Left	SWE
#197	W	Mattias Elfström	6'3, Left	SWE

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Henkka]

#20	LD	Dennis Cholowski	6'2, Left	CAN
#36	LD	Jared McIsaac	6'1, Left	CAN
#38	RD	Gustav Lindström	6'2, Right	SWE
#53	RD	Filip Hronek	6'0, Right	CZE
FA	LD	Joe Hicketts	5'10, Left	CAN
#67	RD	Alec Regula	6'4, Right	USA
#71	LD	Kasper Kotkansalo	6'2, Left	FIN
#73	RD	Vili Saarijärvi	5'10, Right	FIN
#81	RD	Seth Barton	6'3, Right	CAN
#100	LD	Malte Setkov	6'6, Left	DEN
#107	LD	Alfons Malmström	6'2, Left	SWE
#131	RD	Cole Fraser	6'2, Right	CAN
#170	RD	Patrick Holway	6'4, Left	USA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Henkka]

Goalies:

FA	G	Kaden Fulcher	6'3	CAN
#84	G	Jesper Eliasson	6'3	SWE
#88	G	Keith Petruzzelli	6'5	USA
#110	G	Joren van Pottelberghe	6'2	SUI
#136	G	Chase Perry	6'3	USA
#160	G	Victor Brattström	6'5	SWE
#167	G	Filip Larsson	6'2	SWE

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Also added those non-drafted Fulcher and Hicketts on the lists.


BTW,

43% of our prospects are from Canada.
21% from Sweden
17% from USA.

 

[Syckle78]

Do any of those goalies have real potential?

 

[RedWingzz]

Do any of those goalies have real potential?

Larsson and Fulcher do.

 

[kliq]

Forums have been a hot mess. It's not just you guys, it's all of us.

I'm having issues as well. Page at times is not loading, and for whatever reason my browser wont stay logged in. Every time I click a link I have to log in again despite checking the "stay logged in" check box.

 

[Bench]

Do any of those goalies have real potential?

This is all stuff we know, but I like to wax on a bit.

So hard to say with young goaltenders. And it's why fans hate drafting them in the early rounds. You look at the measurables and go from there. Stats coming through all their leagues, physical metrics, and then how they perform in agility test and such. But even when you do all that, it's so difficult to know if they'll perform at the NHL level. It's such a hugely mental position compared to the others in hockey. Small changes in technique or aggression with the puck lead to dramatic shifts in save percentage.

I was pretty convinced back in 2010 Jack Campbell would become a consistent NHL starter, and likely a star, ala Marc-Andre Fleury. Kid had size, intangibles, and won at every level coming into the draft. As of this posting, I see he's logged around 300 NHL minutes and 2 NHL wins. Cool.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

What's the actual potential for Hronek? Far ceiling top pairing potential? Likely a 2nd pairing guy? Is he a shut down guy with offensive ability or just an offensive defender who makes frequent mistakes?

 

[Pavels Dog]

What's the actual potential for Hronek? Far ceiling top pairing potential? Likely a 2nd pairing guy? Is he a shut down guy with offensive ability or just an offensive defender who makes frequent mistakes?

Not a shutdown D and unlikely to ever be, though in my view of him he is not bad defensively. Watched him at the World Champs and he’s got good defensive awareness but not great strength or stickwork at this point.
Very nice skater, great hands and passing. Good shot. Head up, reads the play well, competes.

Ceiling imo is on the Letang level. Some may see that as too optimistic but I see that kind of offensive ceiling while probably never having that kind of all-around game to truly be an all-situations, anchor #1D.

 

[ChadS]

Do any of those goalies have real potential?

I tend to start seriously evaluating a goalie prospect’s chances only once they’ve played a good season in pro hockey, whether it’s AHL or Europe. Good stats in junior/amateur levels don’t really seem to mean much, and even after that good pro season it will usually take another 2-3 years until they might be an NHL starter.

 

[Syckle78]

This is all stuff we know, but I like to wax on a bit.

So hard to say with young goaltenders. And it's why fans hate drafting them in the early rounds. You look at the measurables and go from there. Stats coming through all their leagues, physical metrics, and then how they perform in agility test and such. But even when you do all that, it's so difficult to know if they'll perform at the NHL level. It's such a hugely mental position compared to the others in hockey. Small changes in technique or aggression with the puck lead to dramatic shifts in save percentage.

I was pretty convinced back in 2010 Jack Campbell would become a consistent NHL starter, and likely a star, ala Marc-Andre Fleury. Kid had size, intangibles, and won at every level coming into the draft. As of this posting, I see he's logged around 300 NHL minutes and 2 NHL wins. Cool.

Absolutely thats why I asked about potential and not if any of them will be good. I'll never assume a goalie is going to be good again after mrazek. And I hate drafting goalies cause it's such a boring pick. It's like drafting offensive line in the NFL. You know you can't win without it but it's sooooo not sexy.

 

[Henkka]

What's the actual potential for Hronek? Far ceiling top pairing potential? Likely a 2nd pairing guy? Is he a shut down guy with offensive ability or just an offensive defender who makes frequent mistakes?

I project him as a 2nd pair righty, kind of #4 defenceman. Plays with a better lefty.

2nd PP, 2nd PK. On the middle pair, never on shut-down role or no need to shelter after his first learning seasons.

 

[Henkka]

So hard to say with young goaltenders. And it's why fans hate drafting them in the early rounds.

I was pretty convinced back in 2010 Jack Campbell would become a consistent NHL starter, and likely a star, ala Marc-Andre Fleury. Kid had size, intangibles, and won at every level coming into the draft. As of this posting, I see he's logged around 300 NHL minutes and 2 NHL wins. Cool.

Nobody is drafting goalies on early rounds anymore. Organizations have learned their lessons. McCollum was our lesson.

When Tyler Wright took the charge, our highest drafted goalie has been #84 overall Eliasson. Another is #88 Petruzzelli. Both at end of the 3rd round. Others later.

 

[Henkka]

Pronman: Ranking NHL teams by their U23 core

Corey Pronman has ranked every teams Under 23-aged roster cores, and this is imo, the best way to rank NHL futures. This tells more about the real situation than just prospects.

Edmonton was number 1. and Buffalo number 2.

12. Detroit Red Wings

U23 Core: Dylan Larkin, Filip Zadina, Anthony Mantha, Joe Veleno, Michael Rasmussen, Filip Hronek, Jonatan Berggren, Tyler Bertuzzi, Dennis Cholowski, Evgeni Svechnikov

The Red Wings’ first rebuild in a long time is underway. They’re going in the right direction and have added a lot this past summer to go with a top young center in Larkin, but they still have a ways to go before they rank among the top teams in the league. Many of their top young talents are still prospects but, for guys like Zadina and Rasmussen, we might see soon how they perform in the NHL.

 

[RedWingzz]

Why is Mantha included in this?

He's born Sep. 16th, 94. He's 24.

 

[Henkka]

Why is Mantha included in this?

He's born Sep. 16th, 94. He's 24.

Maybe he used Sept 15th as an age-mark. Same as NHL entry-draft uses. That kind of starts a "hockey-year".

 

[RedWingzz]

Maybe he used Sept 15th as an age-mark. Same as NHL entry-draft uses. That kind of starts a "hockey-year".

Yeah, but even then, if the point of his article is U23 (U being under, Under 23) I'm not sure why Mantha was included when even at the time of his article, or at the Sep 15th cut-off he was still 23, turning 24, not "under-23". I guess it doesn't really matter at all, just seems odd that he was included.

 

[Henkka]

Yeah, but even then, if the point of his article is U23 (U being under, Under 23) I'm not sure why Mantha was included when even at the time of his article, or at the Sep 15th cut-off he was still 23, turning 24, not "under-23". I guess it doesn't really matter at all, just seems odd that he was included.

It really doesn't seem to matter. Pronman's writings about Seth Jones:

3. Columbus Blue Jackets
U23 Core: Seth Jones, Zach Werenski, Pierre-Luc Dubois, Alexander Wennberg, Oliver Bjorkstrand, Kirill Marchenko, Sonny Milano, Alexandre Texier, Vitaly Abramov, Jonathan Davidsson

It feels like he’s been around forever, but Jones is 23 and one of the best defensemen in the NHL. Werenski isn’t that far behind...

It seems to be 23 and under 23 aged.

***

All in all, I like this kind of analyzes much more than just prospect rankings. Prospect rankings for me personally, is predicting the future. The direction of the team. Old teams or contenders without youth are gonna regress soon, or these best U23 are gonna rise on the top on the next 5 years.

That's what I'm interested in.

Usually, when people are making rankings for prospect core only, it's just too short window to analyze anything. You get Veleno and Zadina and year after they are graduated, and not count as prospects anymore, and your prospect core with those specs doesn't look that good anymore. This is just stupid way and misleading. Like this discussion in here: https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...lo-make-the-drw.2542813/page-2#post-149711045

Even the players aren't count as "prospects" anymore, because they play in NHL, they are still very young, on the team and the team will be on a rise for a next decade. I like this U23 way very very much. Should be more common way to rank organizations futures.

 

[Goalie guy]

Larsson and Fulcher do.

Flucher has a lot of work to do in GR to see if he sticks there or not. Larsson is yet to be seen how he will bounce back after getting hurt, He is our best u23 goalie.