Red Fisher Conference Semifinals - Trail Smoke Eaters vs Montreal Canadiens

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Trail Smoke Eaters

General Manager: Velociraptor
Home Venue: Cominico Arena

Head Coach: Pat Quinn
Assistant Coach: Emile Francis
Captain: Wayne Gretzky
Assistant Captains: Georges Boucher, Paul Kariya

ROSTER

Michel Goulet - Wayne Gretzky - Bernie Geoffrion
Paul Kariya - Bobby Smith - Mike Gartner
Marty Pavelich - Phil Goyette - Cecil Dillon
Ab McDonald - Craig MacTavish - Bruce MacGregor

Bill Quackenbush - Georges Boucher
Allan Stanley - Glen Harmon
Jack Portland - Dollard St-Laurent

Gump Worsley
Gerry Cheevers

Spares:
Tumba Johansson, C
Al MacAdam, LW/RW
Clem Loughlin, D

POWERPLAY

PP1: Michel Goulet - Wayne Gretzky - Mike Gartner - Georges Boucher - Bernie Geoffrion
PP2: Paul Kariya - Bobby Smith - Cecil Dillon - Allan Stanley - Bill Quackenbush

PENALTY KILL

PK1: Craig MacTavish - Marty Pavelich - Allan Stanley - Bill Quackenbush
PK2: Wayne Gretzky - Bruce MacGregor - Jack Portland - Glen Harmon
PK3: Phil Goyette - Ab McDonald - Allan Stanley - Bill Quackenbush

VS

MONTREAL CANADIENS

GMs: Jafar / Sturminator
Captain: Mikhailov
Assistant: Bourque
Assistant: Coulter

HEAD COACH

Tommy Gorman

ROSTER

#9 Busher Jackson - #7 Frank Boucher - #13 Boris Mikhailov
#8 Sergei Kapustin - #27 Jeremy Roenick - #19 Helmut Balderis
#91 Shane Doan - #14 Don Luce - #10 Tony Amonte
#17 Joe Klukay - #33 Troy Murray - #41 Mario Tremblay

#77 Raymond Bourque - #2 Art Coulter
#3 Gus Mortson - #5 Jimmy Thomson
#4 Bobby Rowe - #18 Mathieu Schneider

#1 Georges Vézina
#23 Al Rollins

#39 Jason Spezza, #26 Rick Ley, #12 Steve Thomas, #71 Patrik Sundstrom

PP1: Jackson - Boucher - Mikhailov
Schneider - Bourque

PP2: Kapustin - Roenick - Balderis
Thomson - Mortson

PK1: Klukay - Luce
Bourque - Coulter

PK2: Murray - Boucher
Mortson - Thomson

PK3: Roenick - Mikhailov
Rowe[/SIZE]​

Click to read more...

 

[Velociraptor]

At first glance, Montreal holds the edge in goaltending as well as coaching.

Our first line is superior to the Canadiens' although they have built a solid two-way line. I'd like to know if Mikhailov had any reputation as a good skater, I've never seen anything on his skating whether he was quick, slow or just neutral on his feet.

I think Shane Doan sticks out worse offensively than Bobby Smith as far as second lines go, but Doan brings a stronger defensive element. I think Kariya is the best on either line by a considerable margin, Balderis albeit a good second line winger, I don't think he should be the best offensive player on a second line. Roenick's offense is pretty good for a second line. I like the quickness of both lines, I think they are fairly even.

Two strong checking units, involving two of the best defensive forwards of all time in Klukay and Pavelich. Goyette and Luce are pretty much equals, as are Pavelich and Klukay. However I think Dillon holds a moderate edge over Amonte, offensively and defensively. Thus giving our line the advantage.

MacTavish and Murray, yet again extremely similar both have intangibles some the same, some different.

Tremblay's VsX 7 season benchmark is: 47.4
MacGregor's VsX 7 season benchmark is: 48.4

MacGregor holds a slight edge offensively, and it seems they both brings intangibles. MacGregor and Tremblay appear closer the canonized draft position has them ranked. Tremblay was tougher, and also dropped the gloves, he was also likely a more frequent hitter. If at all, Tremblay may hold a slight edge, but they are very even.

Kapustin seems to bring all the attributes and intangibles as McDonald, but is quite better offensively.

Montreal's fourth line holds a small advantage, but yet again, extremely close.

Forwards are somewhat even from a standpoint, our first line is better offensively, but Montreal's is more competent defensively.

 

[Velociraptor]

Montreal's first pairing is among the best in the draft. Bourque is an absolute stud both ways, and is indeed a game-breaker. I think Coulter, can be viewed as a slightly better version of Harry Howell. Quackenbush and Boucher both hold advantages over Coulter, but Bourque is uncontested.

Montreal recreated a real-life pairing that had success together, I think Mortson may be slightly overrated due to his success with Thomson, but the pairing works and it is fine. Stanley, the best of the four IMO is above Thomson, but not by much. However the Gold Dust Twins are both better than Harmon. Montreal holds an edge.

Rowe is a good #5, but I think St-Laurent is better than Rowe, if anything Rowe and Portland are equals, Portland's positional game, and more illustrious physical game is on par with Rowe's all-around effectiveness. Schneider is a good PP specialist, but is a dud defensively, and may need a lot of Rowe's assistance defensively to make this pairing work which would certainly take away from Rowe's rushing prowess and offensive ability. Trail holds an advantage here.

Montreal's top-4 is better than ours, while ours is still competitive and will be very strong positionally.

Vezina had a fairly decent playoff record, but only won one cup on teams' that were comparable to the championship teams' Worsley played on. However he is a better goaltender than Worsley. Cheevers is better than Rollins, but they more than likely won't see any ice this series.

I'd like to hear your thoughts Sturm, this is an excellent team that you and Jafar have assembled.

 

[Velociraptor]

Trail's first unit, I believe is the best in the ATD. Gartner is weaker on the unit, but his utility is maximized next to Gretz and Goulet. Geoffrion on the point is huge as well. Montreal's first line can definitely score, and a real PP QB in Bourque is lethal. I think Schneider is a little less appropriate for a first PP than Gartner. Trail with an edge.

Seconds are close, Kariya the best on either side, Dillon certainly capable and Smith the weak link. Roenick and Balderis are good PP options, I'd like to see an offensive comparison between Smith and Kapustin which seems near impossible to go about, but I'd say they are fairly close in the very least. I think Balderis is even or slightly better than Dillon offensively, I'm not sure though. These are even.

Luce-Klukay is an excellent first unit, Klukay is matched by Pavelich but Luce's PK ability trumps MacT's. Two strong sets of D as well, but Montreal takes this one.

Murray-Boucher is another good unit, but Gretzky-MacGregor is certainly interesting. Gretzky killed a fair chunk of penalties, but his primary role down a man was obviously to generate offense getting pucks and looking to create chances, MacGregor is quick and could certainly score goals in addition to being a fleet penalty killer. Montreal's D are stronger, so they also hold a slight edge.

 

[Dreakmur]

Trail's first unit, I believe is the best in the ATD.

I have to disagree there. I'm not even convinced you have the best unit in this series. If it is, it's based almost entirely on Gratzky. He and Geoffrion are great. Goulet and Boucher are decent. Gartner is weak.


The Beliveau/Bathgate unit is pretty scary, as is the Esposito/Coffey.

 

[Elvis P]

I have to disagree there. I'm not even convinced you have the best unit in this series. If it is, it's based almost entirely on Gratzky. He and Geoffrion are great. Goulet and Boucher are decent. Gartner is weak. The Beliveau/Bathgate unit is pretty scary, as is the Esposito/Coffey.

Clapper/Conacher/Delvecchio/Rocket Richard is pretty scary also.

 

[Sturminator]

Montreal's forward lines for this and all future series, unless otherwise announced:

#9 Busher Jackson - #7 Frank Boucher - #13 Boris Mikhailov
#8 Sergei Kapustin - #27 Jeremy Roenick - #19 Helmut Balderis
#91 Shane Doan - #14 Don Luce - #10 Tony Amonte
#17 Joe Klukay - #33 Troy Murray - #41 Mario Tremblay

I have updated the linked Mikhailov bio with youtube videos (time indexed, so I can't post them through the native hfboards youtube player) and some commentary. I think this work gives us a better understanding of Mikhailov's all-around game than we had before.

I have also posted a new Joe Klukay bio, which was no fun to do, but is finally finished, and linked in the roster post. If some mod would be so kind as to copy the forward lines above into the OP of this thread and the Montreal roster post in that thread, it would be greatly appreciated.

Now that all the hard work is done, I will discuss strategies and such for this series in the next day or so.

 

[Sturminator]

Allright, time to talk strategy against Wayne Gretzky. As a young man, I was lucky enough to witness the most successful Gretzky trolling of all time by Al Arbour's Islanders teams, and I think this Montreal squad is ideally built to reproduce that checking scheme here. First, some data:

17.5.1983 - The Windsor Star:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=l1U_AAAAIBAJ&sjid=tlIMAAAAIBAJ&pg=1102,328327&hl=en

Or course, the Islanders feel just as strongly that they will be able to hold the Oilers in check once again in order to claim their fourth straight Cup.

And their coach Al Arbour gave full credit to one of his assistants, former player Lorne Henning, for devising the defensive strategy.

"He studied tapes and game films and decided you have to try and make the Oilers do things they do not want to do, that they are not comfortable with. You try to take away their familiar passing lanes, keep them off-balance and passing to where they don't want to pass. So far it's been highly successful," Arbour added in a monumental understatement.

Butch Goring offered some explanation why the Islanders have been able to hold Gretzky to three assists in three games. "We're not shadowing him all over the ice. Whoever is closest takes him out and then somebody else takes over. He is a great player but I think it shows the kind of discipline we have on our hockey team. Obviously, the rest of the league is not playing a very good checking game when they allow him three or four points a game," Butch said.

14.5.1984 - The Phoenix:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=pkRgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=n3ANAAAAIBAJ&pg=2236,4144817&hl=en

As they did last year, the Islanders are reducing Gretzky's effectiveness as a playmaker by checking his wingers tightly and forcing him to the boards.

"We're not doing anything specific against him," said Islander coach Al Arbour, "We certainly have a plan but it doesn't necessarily revolve any one player."

The plan involves not giving Gretzky much room to maneuver in the offensive zone. Their defensemen, particularly Ken Morrow, close in on him as soon as the puck moves his way. Arbour calls this pursuit.

----------------------------------------

Yeah...Arbour's Islanders played very smart hockey against Gretzky. They didn't try to knock him out or steal the puck from him, but rather closed off his options whenever he got the puck by checking his wingers closely and closing off his space in the center of the ice. Edmonton had home ice in 1983; Arbour had the New York centers (who were all good checkers) keep a close eye on Gretzky, and counted on his skaters to play disciplined team defense, rather than trying to get a single favorable checking matchup.

It takes a team with a good, cohesive defensive scheme to make such a strategy work, and this Montreal club has the gear to get it done. Much like those old Islanders teams, these Habs are built on the classic model: strong two-way play down the middle, excellent blueline, good goaltending, disciplined defensive system. And like those Isles when they met the Oilers in the finals, these Habs also have a considerable coaching advantage in this matchup.

In addition to the above, Montreal will employ another strategic twist here: Joe Klukay will be assigned to shadow Bernie Geoffrion. Closing off Gretzky's options requires checking his wingers effectively, and Geoffrion needs extra attention here, as neither Jackson nor Kapustin is a great checker from the LW position. Klukay will come in for faceoffs against the Gretzky line (with Luce and Amonte, when they're fresh) when Montreal has the last change, and will switch out as soon as possible for whichever LW is on the ice whenever the Gretzky line comes over the boards.

You can see from the new Klukay bio I just posted that Joe was often used in a utility role throughout his career, and was shuffled around between lines as his coach needed him, seemingly fitting in wherever he was placed. Klukay also had great success shadowing Ted Lindsay in the 1953 playoffs. His job will be to follow Bernie Geoffrion wherever he goes, while the Montreal centers and defensemen cut off Gretzky's space as much as possible. Michel Goulet wasn't a particularly creative player and is a somewhat lesser scorer than I'd thought before we had the VsX and AESP data. He doesn't worry me, and at any rate, Montreal's RWs other than Balderis are all good checkers.

Klukay's greater role will mean that Jackson and Kapustin take some shifts on the lower units, but they'll get their normal amount of icetime, while Shane Doan's minutes will be reduced to that of a 4th liner. The lines will officially remain the same when Klukay is not on the ice, but the LWs will all be shuffled from shift-to-shift in order to accommodate the checking strategy. New icetime breakdown:

Forward Minutes

Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Jackson | 14.5 | 4 | 0 | 18.5
Boucher | 14.5 | 4 | 2.5 | 21
Mikhailov | 14.5 | 4 | 1 | 19.5
Kapustin | 12.5 | 3 | 0 | 15.5
Roenick | 12.5 | 3 | 1 | 16.5
Balderis | 12.5 | 3 | 0 | 15.5
Doan | 7 | 0 | 0 | 7
Luce | 12.5 | 0 | 3.5 | 16
Amonte | 12.5 | 0 | 0 | 12.5
Klukay | 12 | 0 | 3.5 | 15.5
Murray | 6.5 | 0 | 2.5 | 9
Tremblay | 6.5 | 0 | 0 | 6.5
TOTAL | 138 | 21 | 14 | 173

This is on the assumption that Gorman will be able to match Klukay against Geoffrion for about 12 ES minutes every game - that is, most, but not all of the time that the Gretzky line is on the ice at even strength. I think this is a reasonable assumption. Defensive minutes remain the same as they have been:

Defense Minutes

Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Bourque | 19 | 5 | 4 | 28
Coulter | 19 | 0 | 4 | 23
Thomson | 17 | 2 | 3 | 22
Mortson | 17 | 2 | 2 | 21
Rowe | 15 | 0 | 1 | 16
Schneider| 5 | 5 | 0 | 10
TOTAL | 92 | 14 | 14 | 120

 

[Sturminator]

I'd like to know if Mikhailov had any reputation as a good skater, I've never seen anything on his skating whether he was quick, slow or just neutral on his feet.

I have updated the linked Mikhailov bio with a lot more information, and links to video clips of his play throughout his career. He was a good but not great skater.

I think Shane Doan sticks out worse offensively than Bobby Smith as far as second lines go, but Doan brings a stronger defensive element.

Shane Doan is playing 4th line minutes in this series. The Montreal 2nd line will be the same as it was last series: Kapustin - Roenick - Balderis. Balderis vs. Kariya looks pretty close. The two men are difficult to compare straight across, but ultimately look quite similar in terms of style and skillset. All of the information we have (Soviet and national team scoring being the main part) shows that Balderis is essentially a Maltsev-level player with fewer playoff opportunities. The same could be said of Paul Kariya, as well, unless you think he was more skilled than Maltsev. Kapustin and Roenick was quite clearly better than Smith and Gartner. Sergei Kapustin has been a terribly underrated player to this point in the ATD, and looks quite similar in quality to Alex Yakushev with the information we now have. Jeremy Roenick is just a much better player than Bobby Smith; I don't think this is controversial. Montreal definitely has the better 2nd line.

Third lines are pretty close. Luce vs. Goyette looks like a saw-off. Pavelich was a much better shadow than Doan, but he has no superstar RW to shadow in this matchup, and he's not on Doan's level offensively. Comparing them in a vacuum at even strength, with Pavelich having no one to shadow, I think Doan is probably the better all-around player. Amonte is a much better two-way even strength player than I think people realized before this year, but I think Cecil Dillon is still better, so an edge to Trail there. Overall, I think Trail has a small edge on the 3rd lines, though it isn't big.

 

[Velociraptor]

I have updated the linked Mikhailov bio with a lot more information, and links to video clips of his play throughout his career. He was a good but not great skater.



Shane Doan is playing 4th line minutes in this series. The Montreal 2nd line will be the same as it was last series: Kapustin - Roenick - Balderis. Balderis vs. Kariya looks pretty close. The two men are difficult to compare straight across, but ultimately look quite similar in terms of style and skillset. All of the information we have (Soviet and national team scoring being the main part) shows that Balderis is essentially a Maltsev-level player with fewer playoff opportunities. The same could be said of Paul Kariya, as well, unless you think he was more skilled than Maltsev. Kapustin and Roenick was quite clearly better than Smith and Gartner. Sergei Kapustin has been a terribly underrated player to this point in the ATD, and looks quite similar in quality to Alex Yakushev with the information we now have. Jeremy Roenick is just a much better player than Bobby Smith; I don't think this is controversial. Montreal definitely has the better 2nd line.

Third lines are pretty close. Luce vs. Goyette looks like a saw-off. Pavelich was a much better shadow than Doan, but he has no superstar RW to shadow in this matchup, and he's not on Doan's level offensively. Comparing them in a vacuum at even strength, with Pavelich having no one to shadow, I think Doan is probably the better all-around player. Amonte is a much better two-way even strength player than I think people realized before this year, but I think Cecil Dillon is still better, so an edge to Trail there. Overall, I think Trail has a small edge on the 3rd lines, though it isn't big.

Mikhailov and Balderis are worthy of mention, no?

 

[Sturminator]

Montreal recreated a real-life pairing that had success together, I think Mortson may be slightly overrated due to his success with Thomson, but the pairing works and it is fine. Stanley, the best of the four IMO is above Thomson, but not by much. However the Gold Dust Twins are both better than Harmon. Montreal holds an edge.

I wouldn't imagine anyone has doubts that Montreal's top pairing is easily the better of the two. Stanley and Thomson are quite similar in terms of their career accomplishments. I've got them in the same tier, overall, and consider it splitting hairs to choose which was the better of the two. At any rate, TDMM and I have already been down that road in the assassination thread. Anyone who missed that discussion can find it here. I consider Thomson the better player because as the #1 defenseman of a dynasty, he was much more important to the success of his teams, but they are not far apart. Also, Stanley's skating could get him into trouble against the explosive skating of guys like Jackson, Kapustin, Balderis and Amonte. Glen Harmon was a good skater, which helps, but Harmon's not all that good defensively, and this pairing is liable to get themselves in trouble against a very fast Montreal transition attack.

Rowe is a good #5, but I think St-Laurent is better than Rowe, if anything Rowe and Portland are equals, Portland's positional game, and more illustrious physical game is on par with Rowe's all-around effectiveness. Schneider is a good PP specialist, but is a dud defensively, and may need a lot of Rowe's assistance defensively to make this pairing work which would certainly take away from Rowe's rushing prowess and offensive ability. Trail holds an advantage here.

I don't really know what to make of these claims. St. Laurent and Portland are both fine bottom pairing defensemen - both were sort of fringe top-10 guys for a couple years in their careers, and were good depth players outside of that period. Bobby Rowe, however, is much better than that. The information on him is all linked in his bio. The guy was the top blueliner and defensive rock of the best PCHA team in the history of the league (not counting the one season Vancouver superteam), and has an nearly identical all-star record to established ATD 2nd pairing players like Lloyd Cook and Art Duncan. You would have to really, really discount the PCHA to consider Rowe on Portland and St. Laurent's level, which is a very difficult argument to make because Rowe's Seattle teams showed that they were just as good as the NHL champions when they met over the course of three Cup finals. Bobby Rowe is among the elite #5 defensemen in the draft, and he's playing nearly 2nd pairing minutes for Montreal because he is deserving. Rowe's increased role allows Gorman to give Mathieu Schneider sheltered minutes at even strength (just 5 minutes/game), which is fortunate, as he is pretty much just a powerplay specialist at this level.

Speaking of Schneider, he is a much better powerplay player than most people seem to realize. The chart in his bio (which is taken from overpass' work) shows that he was extremely similar to Doug Wilson in terms of powerplay points/season over the course of his peak. Schneider as the 2nd best pointman on a top unit is going to do just fine. He's not a big name, but he was quite good at his one real skill.

Vezina had a fairly decent playoff record, but only won one cup on teams that were comparable to the championship teams' Worsley played on. However he is a better goaltender than Worsley. Cheevers is better than Rollins, but they more than likely won't see any ice this series.

Vezina won two Cups, and was pretty clearly the greatest goaltender of his generation. He is a good deal better than Worsley. Cheevers better than Rollins is a strange claim, but I don't particularly care to argue about it, as neither man is important to the outcome of the series.

 

[Sturminator]

Mikhailov and Balderis are worthy of mention, no?

Mikhailov is not the kind of player who it really pays much to shadow. Balderis probably is, and you can try to get Pavelich matched up against him if you like. While Balderis is a strong offensive 2nd liner, he's not so important to Montreal's offense that I'm going to lose sleep over it if you try to shadow him. The Habs have plenty of offensive depth.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Sergei Kapustin has been a terribly underrated player to this point in the ATD, and looks quite similar in quality to Alex Yakushev with the information we now have.

You've said this twice now, Sturm, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who needs to see an in-depth comparison with Yak to buy it.

 

[Velociraptor]

LINEUP CHANGE:

Phil Goyette will replace Bobby Smith on the second powerplay unit as C. And Cecil Dillon will move onto the first unit, sliding Mike Gartner onto the second.

PP1: Michel Goulet - Wayne Gretzky - Cecil Dillon - Georges Boucher - Bernie Geoffrion
PP2: Paul Kariya - Phil Goyette - Mike Gartner - Allan Stanley - Bill Quackenbush

 

[Velociraptor]

Matching Up with Montreal

In terms of speed, this is easily Trail's toughest matchup so far. I think overall Trail is a faster team, as no players on the team were known as below-average skaters and also possesses the likes of Gretzky, Geoffrion, Goulet, Kariya, Gartner, Dillon you've got a pretty quick set of forwards.

Moving Kapustin up to the second line decreases the defensive value of the second line tremendously. But also makes it a little better offensively. I'm also honestly not sure what makes you think Kapustin is better than Gartner, that is a ridiculous claim.

Obviously Montreal's plan is to deploy Klukay on Geoffrion, but I think shifting him on the bottom two lines will make him extremely tired. The 3G Network will amass the most minutes at ES for Trail. Geoffrion will take a shift or two on the second line in place of Gartner if he is being completely shut down by Klukay or Trail is looking to score, and the first line isn't being overused. (something I'm not overly worried about due to the strength of his line.) It will equate to about one extra minute at ES for him, keeping Gartner at bay with his linemates in total TOI.

We will try and get the 3G network out against Montreal's second line when possible, a forward line where they can run wild and then try and transition their game past the defense. Our third line will be out against the oppositions' first line as much as possible. I think its certainly worth matching Mikhailov, meanwhile Goyette and Dillon are also above-average checkers, who will match with Boucher and Jackson, respectively. Our fourth line, another strong checking unit, will see some of the Habs' top-six in their limited time at ES.

Forward Minutes

Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Goulet | 14.5 | 4 | 0 | 18.5
Gretzky | 14.5 | 4 | 2.5 | 21
Geoffrion | 15.5 | 4 | 0 | 19.5
Kariya | 12.5 | 3 | 0 | 15.5
Smith | 12.5 | 0 | 0 | 12.5
Gartner | 11.5 | 3 | 0 | 14.5
Pavelich| 12.5 | 0 | 3.5 | 16
Goyette | 12.5 | 3 | 1 | 16.5
Dillon | 12.5 | 4 | 0 | 16.5
McDonald | 6.5 | 0 | 1 | 7.5
MacTavish | 6.5 | 0 | 3.5 | 10
MacGregor | 6.5 | 0 | 2.5 | 9
TOTAL | 138 | 25 | 14 | 177

 

[Sturminator]

You've said this twice now, Sturm, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who needs to see an in-depth comparison with Yak to buy it.

From the Kapustin bio, Soviet national team scoring (1974 - 1979), the period where their careers cross:

Player|Goals|Assists|Points|Games|Points-per-game
Boris Mikhailov|47|40|87|57|1.53
Valeri Kharlamov|39|40|79|57|1.39
Vladimir Petrov|27|42|69|46|1.5
Sergei Kapustin|44|18|62|53|1.17
Aleksandr Maltsev|23|30|53|43|1.23
Aleksandr Yakushev|31|17|48|40|1.2
Helmut Balderis|24|21|45|37|1.22
Vladimir Shadrin|19|21|40|39|1.03
Viktor Zhluktov|17|19|36|37|0.97

Somewhat amazingly, Kapustin actually leads the team in goals per game over this period, narrowly ahead of Mikhailov, though he is also the worst playmaker of the group. Kapustin was a three-time IIHF all-star at LW, while Yakushev was twice an all-star and once won the Best Forward award at the world championships. Kapustin played with lesser linemates in 1974 and 1975, and then skated with Balderis and Zhluktov for the following four years. Yakushev skated with Shadrin the whole time, and often with Maltsev on his right wing, though not always. They seem to have gotten about the same amount of scoring help at the national team level, and their production and recognition are remarkably similar. I'd say their international records are extremely close.

I haven't done an in-depth analysis of their respective domestic scoring records, and I'm not going to do one now. I'm not sure how useful such an analysis would be, anyway. Yakushev spent pretty much his whole domestic career skating for a strong Spartak team on a line with Shadrin, while Kapustin split his time between an up-and-down Krylia team (league champion one year, and other years pretty bad), second line duties at CSKA, and then a weaker Spartak team in the early 80's. They also competed in somewhat different eras; Yak began peaking in the late 60's when only goals were tabulated in the Soviet league, while Kapustin began peaking in 1974. Their domestic league stats would likely be an apples-to-oranges comparison in large part, and at any rate, Yakushev's reputation around here is not based upon what he did in the Soviet league.

 

[Sturminator]

Moving Kapustin up to the second line decreases the defensive value of the second line tremendously. But also makes it a little better offensively. I'm also honestly not sure what makes you think Kapustin is better than Gartner, that is a ridiculous claim.

Here's a snippet from the 7-season weighted VsX results for right wings:

36 | Rick Middleton | 74
37 | Milan Hejduk | 73.8
38 | Yvan Cournoyer | 73.6
39 | Tony Amonte | 73.3
40 | Tod Sloan | 72.8
41 | Larry Aurie | 72.7
42 | Peter Bondra | 72.5
43 | Eddie Wiseman | 72.1
44 | Steve Larmer | 72.1
45 | Glenn Anderson | 71.9
46 | Joe Mullen | 71.4
47 | Johnny Gagnon | 71
48 | Ed Litzenberger | 70.8
49 | Kenny Wharram | 70.6
50 | Dave Taylor | 70.4
51 | Dino Ciccarelli | 69.9
52 | Marian Gaborik | 69.9
53 | Ebbie Goodfellow # | 69.8
54 | Rene Robert | 69.4
55 | Todd Bertuzzi | 69.2
56 | Jimmy Ward | 69
57 | Mike Gartner | 68.5
58 | Ace Bailey | 68.1
59 | Owen Nolan | 66.9
60 | Claude Provost | 66.9
61 | Vic Stasiuk | 66.5
62 | Shane Doan | 66.3

Now, this looks a bit better for Gartner in comparison to other modern players if you go out to 10 seasons, but it doesn't change much. Even at 10 seasons, he's still behind Tony Amonte, who was also a better two-way player. Mike Gartner just isn't all that good a scoringline player at this level. His production is more along the lines of a 2nd line glue guy than a player who is primarily there for his offense. You'd have to take an awfully dim view of Sergei Kapustin as a scorer to think he was less productive than Mike Gartner.

Obviously Montreal's plan is to deploy Klukay on Geoffrion, but I think shifting him on the bottom two lines will make him extremely tired.

You think approximately 12 even strength minutes per game is going to make Klukay extremely tired?! I'll take my chances with that. Not going to bother shadowing Geoffrion when he's playing off of the Gretzky line. The point of using Klukay in this way is to limit Gretzky's options. Geoffrion on a lower line doesn't concern me.

We will try and get the 3G network out against Montreal's second line when possible, a forward line where they can run wild and then try and transition their game past the defense.

Obviously, this is the one matchup Gorman will try most to avoid. Simply sending the Montreal 2nd line out for the next shift after the Gretzky line comes off is the easiest way to do this, which is a tactic every midget hockey coach can execute. Exact line matching can be tricky, but line un-matching against top units is fairly simple (it is harder against pure checking units that don't get a lot of regular shifts), and Gorman is easily the better coach in this series.

Gorman's teams were known for playing tight, disciplined defensive hockey even before they started forechecking (Ottawa and New York years) - exactly the kind of system that Arbour's Islanders played against Gretzky to great success. Every team has chinks in its armor, and Gretzky did manage to break free for two great games out of nine in the finals against those Islanders, but for the rest of the time, he was well bottled up by a New York team that played disciplined hockey up and down the lineup.

Trail doesn't have anything close to the level of secondary scoring that those Oilers teams had (it was Messier who won the Conn-Smythe in 1984, largely for his performance in the Finals). Gretzky doesn't have to be checked out of the series in order for Montreal to win, only slowed down a bit.

 

[Sturminator]

LINEUP CHANGE:

Phil Goyette will replace Bobby Smith on the second powerplay unit as C. And Cecil Dillon will move onto the first unit, sliding Mike Gartner onto the second.

PP1: Michel Goulet - Wayne Gretzky - Cecil Dillon - Georges Boucher - Bernie Geoffrion
PP2: Paul Kariya - Phil Goyette - Mike Gartner - Allan Stanley - Bill Quackenbush

Goyette's best (and really only good) seasons as a powerplay scorer were spent playing the point in New York and Buffalo. He certainly can play down low, but he's not particularly impressive in that role. Cecil Dillon on a 1st unit powerplay is similarly meh.

 

[Velociraptor]

Goyette's best (and really only good) seasons as a powerplay scorer were spent playing the point in New York and Buffalo. He certainly can play down low, but he's not particularly impressive in that role. Cecil Dillon on a 1st unit powerplay is similarly meh.

I think Dillon is a better option than Gartner, and would you have Smith there over Goyette?

 

[Sturminator]

I think Dillon is a better option than Gartner, and would you have Smith there over Goyette?

Both are possibly small improvements, though this looks like a case of going from one weak option to another, marginally less weak option.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Both are possibly small improvements, though this looks like a case of going from one weak option to another, marginally less weak option.

Personally, as I pointed out in our series, I think that Trail's secondary scoring is overrated.

Kariya looks great in the 7 years covered by vsX (and he was a great player before injuries) but drops off quickly after that.. Gartner looks great as a hall of famer name but when you look at the numbers he isn't nearly as good as I would have considered at first glance.

And obviously the wings are the strong point of that second line.

The same issues then crop up on their second PP unit as you'd expect.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Montreal wins in 7 games.

Stars of the series:

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Georges Vezina
3. Frank Boucher

 

[Sturminator]

Good series, Raptor. I expected this one to go seven games, win or lose. You built a strong team this year, and did an excellent job of supporting Gretzky. That 1st line really scared me. Thanks for the interesting and civil debate. Cheers.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Forward Minutes

Player | ES | PP | PK | Total
Goulet | 14.5 | 4 | 0 | 18.5
Gretzky | 14.5 | 4 | 2.5 | 21
Geoffrion | 15.5 | 4 | 0 | 19.5
Kariya | 12.5 | 3 | 0 | 15.5
Smith | 12.5 | 0 | 0 | 12.5
Gartner | 11.5 | 3 | 0 | 14.5
Pavelich| 12.5 | 0 | 3.5 | 16
Goyette | 12.5 | 3 | 1 | 16.5
Dillon | 12.5 | 4 | 0 | 16.5
McDonald | 6.5 | 0 | 1 | 7.5
MacTavish | 6.5 | 0 | 3.5 | 10
MacGregor | 6.5 | 0 | 2.5 | 9
TOTAL | 138 | 25 | 14 | 177

Good series you guys. These were two of my favorite teams.

One thing, which was not the difference-maker for me, but I think is worth mentioning, is that I think you need to play Gretzky more than 21 minutes a game in the playoffs.

 

[Velociraptor]

Good series Sturm, I'm not highly educated enough to defend a team of this expertise, but it's nice knowing that it lost to a contender.

Best of luck with the rest of it, I'll be cheering you on.