Sorry, I knew Brind'Amour is an elite faceoff artist. I forgot you had made the decision for him to shift to the wing after taking faceoffs.
Yeah I moved Nicholls up to get more use out of his offense (and Brind'amour's for that matter) but Brind'amour will still take the draws.
Nice bonus is that if he gets waved out Nicholls is still solid enough.
Would you like to provide some quotes on Stewart and faceoffs? I couldn't locate any and your bio doesn't seem to have anything supporting that. But yes you have strength with Francis and Brindy taking draws.
He taught Teeder Kennedy.
My only quibbles about this is that you say Goulet's Selke record is noteworthy when it is an 8th and 22nd.
Meanwhile you say that Geoffrion and Francis is close because Geoffrion is a better scorer while Francis is better defensively.
Because the constant criticism of Francis' offense is that his peak was with Jagr, I'll do the same thing as last series: even if you remove those seasons altogether Francis is still a very strong offensive player (as shown in the previous series he is a bit less than Hawerchuk AFTER completely removing them).. meanwhile his Selke record is:
1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 8th, 12th
Now I think *that* is noteworthy and important in this comparison since if Goulet is your noteworthy two-way guy here.. it isn't close.
And while Jagr of course doesn't match up to Gretzky offensively because no one does.. he is as close as you can get at ES as prime players. His puck possession is off the charts and his adjusted plus minus shows the benefits of this over his career..
While Jagr isn't a great "defensive" player he is an enormously positive influence on his team over his career.
Career
Player|Adjusted +/- (68-2012)
Jagr|499
Gretzky|339
And to put Gretzky in his best light:
First 10 Seasons
Player|Adjusted +/-
Gretzky 80-89|397
Jagr 91-00|327
My only goal is for my checking line and first line (when we win most of the matchups due to our coaching) to keep the ledger close enough that our other advantages win the games.
Nash of course doesn't look very good at all when looking at points because he is a very one sided goal scorer thus far in his career. He does bring what I need to the line, though.. puck possession. (and a big shot as another option for Francis)
Of course we're going to give up ground against a line like you've assembled.. the goal is to limit how much.
Second Lines:
Kariya/Stewart
You got excellent value on Nels Stewart, and he's among better second liners in this draft. In his company includes Paul Kariya.
Nels Stewart 90.5
Paul Kariya 85.4
Similar to Geoffrion/Francis, a little further apart. Stewart holds an edge offensively, and is flanked by two wingers who can get a lot out of him offensively. Kariya, is below offensively, but one of the best skaters between Stewart however, is extremely slow. There's lots of evidence to support this, and Trail is built for speed. A very quick team in transition that includes a large group of fantastic skaters.
Nels Stewart could very well be the best second liner in this draft when he has wings like Cashman and Mosienko with him. The line is built to maximize what Stewart does best.
As for the speed thing.. I'm not certain it is going to be a big issue. Obviously ,even with whatever skating speed Stewart had, he was still incredibly effective. There are lots of references to him not trying hard while somehow always arriving at the right place at the right time to score. Secondly there is some evidence that it might be somewhat overstated, or at least that he could use that big frame to hang on to the puck regardless:
Playing the Field said:
...
Beliveau has often been likened to the late Nels Stewart. Toe Blake was asked if Stewart was a slow skater, as has been alleged.
"I've heard that and it wasn't true," he said. "You couldn't catch him from behind. He didn't look to be going fast because he took those long strides. Beliveau is like that, too."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=00swAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dagFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6183,2273197
Also, vsX is flattering to Kariya in this case because while he is the more modern player in this comparison, he has relatively much less longevity as a top player than Stewart does in his era.
So if we look at finishes as another comparison between these two:
Name|Finishes
Stewart |1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10
Kariya |3, 3, 4, 7
Gartner holds an edge on Cashman offensively, Cashman's best offensive seasons also came alongside Phil Esposito. But he's also an elite corner man, and plays an integral role to this lines success. His offense this series will come from dishing pucks to Stewart. Cashman plays a bigger role on the line as the primary puck-winner, who is very good at what he does.
True, Gartner does hold an edge over Cashman but I see you have omitted how much it is while you have been citing all these vsX numbers.
Player| vsX
Gartner |68.5
Cashman |65
I am sure that is a lot closer than most people would have thought (including myself - obviously Gartner would slaughter him offensively in longevity).
As a detraction you say that Cashman was alongside Esposito while he was producing that offense.. fair enough. Here he is alongside a player who is very similar -- Nels Stewart.
As soon as we take intangibles into account
I easily see this is a win for Cashman over their primes.
Mosienko is better than Smith, however his VsX scores are inflated due to War year scoring. Smith may be seen as a weak second line centre, which compared to other second line centres he certainly is. But he has two excellent scoring wingers on his line, I think he has a similar situation to Nash but is in a better position to succeed due to the fact both Kariya and Gartner can create offense as well.
While citing all these vsX numbers you left out Smith's.
I also see why:
Player|vsX
Mosienko|82.2
Smith|69.1
Mosienko always gets discounted for the war years but he was still registering top ten seasons into the late 40s and early 50s so I don't think he needs a huge discount. He also does inject a healthy dose of speed to what would otherwise be a pretty plodding line.. so I think he helps mitigate that for us somewhat.
Even after discounting Mosienko some.. our second line is better offensively than yours and frankly that is practically all your second line brings besides speed while doing it. Cashman has more intangibles in his little finger.
Advantage: Guelph Both lines work well, and will generate offense. I think Guelph's is a little stronger.
I agree with you that our second line is an advantage to us over yours. However, I think it is more than a "little stronger" overall.
Just as you say drafting all those players early for your first line gave you an very strong first line, you have to know that leaves you weaker in other places.
Third Lines:
EMILE FRANCIS PLANS ON MATCHING OUR THIRD LINE AGAINST THE JAGR LINE
Please do. Jagr plays a lot at ES, and the more time Gretzky is on the bench the easier this series will be for us.
Brind'Amour is an elite third-liner, however the other two pieces of the line are pretty weak. Although, Nicholls offense definitely brings up the value. Dillon, is an elite-third liner and Goyette and Pavelich combine to make this a very strong third line that plays a adept 200-foot game.
Rank | Table | Rank
105|Cecil Dillon|78.4
147|Rod Brind'Amour|72.8
In terms of offense, Dillon is the superior. I think we can give Brind'Amour a defensive nod, but I don't really know how to concede this, considering Dillon is also a strong defensive player. Both are elite checking players, and I think they are a wash to compare.
I don't know enough about Dillon to know if being a strong defensive player in reputation matches up to being a more modern two-time Selke winner who received Selke votes in practically as many seasons as Dillon's whole career... so I don't know..
Pavelich is one of the best checking forwards in NHL history, he'll be seeing a lot of Jaromir Jagr. He is nothing special offensively, but a phenomenal defensive forward.
I'm good with that matchup.. when you are able to get it. For the reason above.
Nicholls is an offensive stud who makes a nice combination with Brind'Amour.
Nicholls VsX rank is 80.3, making him the strongest offensive player on the line. But he is also a non-factor to ineffective on a checking line.
My 3rd line isn't specifically a checking line. Why would I waste two guys like Nicholls and Brind'amour and a 2-time 40 goal scorer like Dineen just checking?
Dineen is absolutely behind Goyette offensively and defensively. Dineen was known to have a bit of defensive value, and was tough, probably an average to below-average checking line forward.
Kevin Dineen has just as noteworthy a Selke record as Goulet does.
And he was good enough offensively to pot 40 goals twice and 30 goals 5 times while bringing a ton of grit.
Advantage: Trail, two strong offensive third lines, however Trail's line is much more competent defensively.
I don't think they are that close offensively.
As you said, Nicholls is the best offensive player on either line, and you only have two players capable of much offense at all.. one of which you have admitted Brind'amour is close to.
Dineen is easily better offensively that Pavelich and I think it is by more than vsX makes it appear.
So I think we are better offensively and I think defensively you are .. overall it probably depends on what people value.
) but there is quite the difference in between the two. Nash is not gifted defensively, nor is overly physical. Goulet holds a substantial edge over Nash.
