News Article: Really good explaination of how Bergevin did right thing with subban.

[Roulin]

Great article but one thing is fails to mention is how it affects the expectations of future young players looking to skip a bridge contract. Suddenly the team has to spread the wealth over fewer quality players and risk losing them when they turn UFA at a couple years younger. The bridge contract sets a precedence which shows fairness to past players that had to wait and tells future players they have to wait. The team as a whole is better off that way.

If MB tries to repeat this experiment, I don't think the result with Subban will prevent Galchenyuk or Gallagher from signing an offer sheet or holding out longer. This time around, Habs management was lucky that the team got off to a hot start and that Subban was willing to settle for a low offer. Next they might not be so lucky.

 

[Miller Time]

If MB tries to repeat this experiment, I don't think the result with Subban will prevent Galchenyuk or Gallagher from signing an offer sheet or holding out longer. This time around, Habs management was lucky that the team got off to a hot start and that Subban was willing to settle for a low offer. Next they might not be so lucky.

exactly...

and in terms of precedent setting, it's just as possible that what the Subban situation does is entice/encourage younger players coming up for RFA deals to view signing another teams offer sheet as the only way they'll get "what they deserve".

Subban, both publicly and privately, was adamant about wanting to play in Montreal and wanting to be a hab. For all the criticism he gets for his on-ice personality, what some people seem to miss is that he is exactly the type of player who thrives/feeds off of the kind of boisterous fan support we have in montreal...

as we well know, not all players can handle that added pressure. Knowing that your team/GM is going to use the "bridge" philosophy as a sledgehammer in negotiating the RFA years could easily be just one more incentive to get out of town...

 

[googlymoogly]

It was the nicest thing anyone has ever said to overlords.

Yes if you would of called him a closet Bruin fan that would of been insulting and lifetime ban.

 

[overlords]

Yes if you would of called him a closet Bruin fan that would of been insulting and lifetime ban.

He's not that brave. I know where he lives.


Well, kinda. How big can ottawa be?

 

[Kriss E]

exactly...

and in terms of precedent setting, it's just as possible that what the Subban situation does is entice/encourage younger players coming up for RFA deals to view signing another teams offer sheet as the only way they'll get "what they deserve".

Subban, both publicly and privately, was adamant about wanting to play in Montreal and wanting to be a hab. For all the criticism he gets for his on-ice personality, what some people seem to miss is that he is exactly the type of player who thrives/feeds off of the kind of boisterous fan support we have in montreal...

as we well know, not all players can handle that added pressure. Knowing that your team/GM is going to use the "bridge" philosophy as a sledgehammer in negotiating the RFA years could easily be just one more incentive to get out of town...

Pretty much. I'd also add that people in Mtl have been whining about how the stars never want to come here, and when they are here, they want out, that nobody wants to commit to a decent price. Now we have a kid that was already a star, with so much potential, that publicly states how he wants to play here, and we go out of our way to make sure he takes a small deal.


I understand the ''precedent'' idea, and I can agree with it on some level (depending on what precedent you're trying to set). But I just don't buy it as a reason why Bergevin wanted the bridge deal with PK. I think we were very lucky to deal with a player that simply loves the Habs, and whose family adores them as well. The fact Bobby Mac and Dreger were believing more and more that this was going to end in a trade, and that PK said he needs time to discuss things with his family, wasn't very convincing that Bergevin has his stuff under control. I mean, at the time, some believed PK was asking for the moon, so believing that then I can see the trade possibility, but seeing what he signed for it's very unlikely he was asking for that moon.

 

[dreamingofdrouin*]

But the point is to have as many players at a cheaper price for when the cup window is on. Where we'll be in year 7-8-9 is irrelevant. It's so far away, maybe the whole team will be different.
But our current cup window. With all those youngsters, and guys like MaxPac and Price, is within the next few years.

As for the precedent, it's bs. The reason why Bergevin gave PK a bridge deal was because he wasn't sold on him. So if Galchenyuk becomes our #1 center next year and the following one, then how can Bergevin say it's a similar situation?
Having a dispute with your stars is never a good idea.

I expect the cup window to still be in full swing in those years....we may fade out a little bit here and there, but it's about having that core in place and then either recycling the role players for and guys who were previously underpayed and about to pop, OR keeping those ready to pop guys and clearing out the previous core, that's sort of what we'll be doing in a few years time or starting as early as next year, with gio and markov but the youth we have no will stay in the core positions for many years to come.

I dont see any upcoming contracts being an issue because of the transition that we will soon undergo and i know we're approaching a very good opportunity with our current core and the fact that gally and gally and the d-men will all be underpayed for a couple years but i really don't see suuby's contract getting in the way...even at 7.5 or 8 it's gonna look like an absolute god send down the road and you can book it.

 

[Kriss E]

I expect the cup window to still be in full swing in those years....we may fade out a little bit here and there, but it's about having that core in place and then either recycling the role players for and guys who were previously underpayed and about to pop, OR keeping those ready to pop guys and clearing out the previous core, that's sort of what we'll be doing in a few years time or starting as early as next year, with gio and markov but the youth we have no will stay in the core positions for many years to come.

I dont see any upcoming contracts being an issue because of the transition that we will soon undergo and i know we're approaching a very good opportunity with our current core and the fact that gally and gally and the d-men will all be underpayed for a couple years but i really don't see suuby's contract getting in the way...even at 7.5 or 8 it's gonna look like an absolute god send down the road and you can book it.

It's not about PK's contract getting in the way. That much is completely unknown. We don't know what PK will be signed for, we don't know what Eller will want. We don't know if Markov and Gionta are going to be re-signed, replaced by more expensive-same price-cheaper free agents, we don't know what Diaz and Emelin will want and be re-signed. There's too many questions to really know anything.
That's the point. That's why, if you have a chance to lock up a young star at a longer term deal that will be a discount in a couple year (with hindsight, it would have been a discount from year 1 with PK), you just do it.
Go around the NHL and look at players that sign bridge deals. All of them are unproven or just top 3-4 guys at best. None of them were of PK's caliber. Those that were signed longer term deals. That's just the way it goes, bridge deals are given to players that aren't proven, that's it. There's no other reason. People here like to come up with a bunch of different reason for it to make sense, but really, it only comes down to this. Bergevin wasn't sold on PK, he said so himself. The way Therrien used PK shows he also wasn't convinced. I mean, this Norris winner was used as a bottom pairer and on the 2nd wave of the PP. That, to me, tells me everything on how they perceived PK.

As for the window. Sure, hey, hopefully we will become contenders for years and years, keep recycling talent and win cups. I certainly hope so. But despite what you may believe, you can't claim it as fact. What will our team look like in 7 years? Who knows.
Point is we have a window now with guys like MaxPac, Price, PK getting in their primes, guys like Plekanec and Gorges providing solid veteran presence, and hopefully great young contributors like Eller and the Gals. We know we have some good talent coming, we know we have good players here, window is soon. Where we'll be in 6-7 years is unknown despite what you may believe.
So, it comes all the way back to if you can save any bit of cash to go spend it on bigger free agents during the cup window, you do it.

 

[FrontierPsyCHiatrist*]

I am hoping he wins another Norris, scores 70 pts and asks for 7.5M....why does it matter? The Bruins fans did not wish a poor season on Chara so he would stay at 5.5M???

C'mon BLONG, I didn't say that. I'm hoping the best for him and even if he wins another Norris next season I'm still hoping we can sign him for less than 7M$.
I just don't think he should be paid more than Price (6.5M$) our best player. And if he asks for 7.5M$ or 8M$, it will take a long time before MB and PK will agree and maybe he will leave for another team ready to give way more than 7M$

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Berkshire is overrated.

And he smells like elderberries.

Was his father a hamster lol

 

[MrNasty]

If MB tries to repeat this experiment, I don't think the result with Subban will prevent Galchenyuk or Gallagher from signing an offer sheet or holding out longer. This time around, Habs management was lucky that the team got off to a hot start and that Subban was willing to settle for a low offer. Next they might not be so lucky.

I think you guys are paranoid. Those things rarely ever happen. There are very few teams that give guys coming out of their entry contracts the big Dough that early. It ruined Skinner.

 

[onemorecup*]

It's not just a money thing, it's a character thing. If Subban gets his way and signs a 5-6 yr deal last year I don't think he wins the Norris this year. Look at young guys who sign big deals early...they struggle. Big money messes with young kids...see Doughty, Myers, etc

Bergevin made Subban earn his big dollar contract and he'll be happy to give it to him. To think Subban would have had the kind of season he did if he signed a 6 yr $36M deal is flawed.

And for those of you who hate the word character - there are things you can't measure in stats, and they're the difference between winning a Cup and winning and President's Trophy. MB is showing Subban how to be part of a team and so far, it's going very well.

bang on

he needed to mature and cleary there were issues with the cooments made by markov

he was probably told no for the first time in his life

if he keeps playing this way , pay him top $$$ who cares

you pay your stars , the problem with salaries is

Gio , Gorges and others making what they make

 

[onemorecup*]

I expect the cup window to still be in full swing in those years....we may fade out a little bit here and there, but it's about having that core in place and then either recycling the role players for and guys who were previously underpayed and about to pop, OR keeping those ready to pop guys and clearing out the previous core, that's sort of what we'll be doing in a few years time or starting as early as next year, with gio and markov but the youth we have no will stay in the core positions for many years to come.

I dont see any upcoming contracts being an issue because of the transition that we will soon undergo and i know we're approaching a very good opportunity with our current core and the fact that gally and gally and the d-men will all be underpayed for a couple years but i really don't see suuby's contract getting in the way...even at 7.5 or 8 it's gonna look like an absolute god send down the road and you can book it.

agreed , you simply let Markov, Cube , Gio , go and dont and you have enough cash to keep your kids

 

[Account Terminated]

----N/A----

 

[ECWHSWI]

If MB tries to repeat this experiment, I don't think the result with Subban will prevent Galchenyuk or Gallagher from signing an offer sheet or holding out longer. This time around, Habs management was lucky that the team got off to a hot start and that Subban was willing to settle for a low offer. Next they might not be so lucky.

it's not like many NHLers signs offersheet anyway... there must be a reason why.

 

[Kriss E]

I think you guys are paranoid. Those things rarely ever happen. There are very few teams that give guys coming out of their entry contracts the big Dough that early. It ruined Skinner.

Ya, I'm sure signing his deal was what "killed" him, not his injuries.
Did it kill Kane? Toews?
Look around the league, the younger guys that get rewarded with a longer deal out of their ELC are the ones that have proven themselves enough. The ones that get bridge deals are the ones that haven't proven much and/or aren't showing tons of upside.
PK had already proven himself. This management group just didn't know PK well enough. Bergevin saying he needs to see more from him, being hardball on signing him to such a low cap, and Therrien using him as a bottom paired until Diaz got injured prove this.

 

[Roulin]

it's not like many NHLers signs offersheet anyway... there must be a reason why.

The only other player in Subban's situation this season (O'Reilly) signed an offer sheet. Nashville was devastated by an offer sheet situation. I would agree that there are less offer sheets than could be expected, but I wouldn't call them a non-threat.

 

[dreamingofdrouin*]

It's not about PK's contract getting in the way. That much is completely unknown. We don't know what PK will be signed for, we don't know what Eller will want. We don't know if Markov and Gionta are going to be re-signed, replaced by more expensive-same price-cheaper free agents, we don't know what Diaz and Emelin will want and be re-signed. There's too many questions to really know anything.
That's the point. That's why, if you have a chance to lock up a young star at a longer term deal that will be a discount in a couple year (with hindsight, it would have been a discount from year 1 with PK), you just do it.
Go around the NHL and look at players that sign bridge deals. All of them are unproven or just top 3-4 guys at best. None of them were of PK's caliber. Those that were signed longer term deals. That's just the way it goes, bridge deals are given to players that aren't proven, that's it. There's no other reason. People here like to come up with a bunch of different reason for it to make sense, but really, it only comes down to this. Bergevin wasn't sold on PK, he said so himself. The way Therrien used PK shows he also wasn't convinced. I mean, this Norris winner was used as a bottom pairer and on the 2nd wave of the PP. That, to me, tells me everything on how they perceived PK.

As for the window. Sure, hey, hopefully we will become contenders for years and years, keep recycling talent and win cups. I certainly hope so. But despite what you may believe, you can't claim it as fact. What will our team look like in 7 years? Who knows.
Point is we have a window now with guys like MaxPac, Price, PK getting in their primes, guys like Plekanec and Gorges providing solid veteran presence, and hopefully great young contributors like Eller and the Gals. We know we have some good talent coming, we know we have good players here, window is soon. Where we'll be in 6-7 years is unknown despite what you may believe.
So, it comes all the way back to if you can save any bit of cash to go spend it on bigger free agents during the cup window, you do it.

First of all, PK was tops on our team in toi and tops in PP toi, so he was neither a 2nd line pp or bottom pairing d-man....you couldn't have watched many games if you believe that.

Second...no, i can't claim it as fact that our team will be contenders in 6 to 7 years, but nor can you claim it fact that we will be contenders next year or in a couple years.

I do believe we have an opportunity to give it one last hoorah with the current core we have, but the core of the future is the one that we should be building for and the road to that future still has some bumps left in it.

We are going to build it through the draft...that is fact. bergy said so..so i don't think we should be too worried about acquiring the big fish, our fish will come from or TT's draft record and Bergevin's patience to finally give this team what it needs...a slow, precise and solid rebuild.

We will continue to get better and better as the old are replaced with the improved new and yes, we might have a shot soon, but in my opinion we are better off having subban at a discount in the future than in the next couple years. Having him at a discount does not guarantee us a big UFA. Why overpay a UFA only to give ourselves a cap problem there in the future as well as a more expensive PK?

It would simply be the same impatience that has been keeping our tires spinning for the past 20 years.

 

[Fozz]

If MB tries to repeat this experiment, I don't think the result with Subban will prevent Galchenyuk or Gallagher from signing an offer sheet or holding out longer. This time around, Habs management was lucky that the team got off to a hot start and that Subban was willing to settle for a low offer. Next they might not be so lucky.

Habs management was lucky because their tactic with Subban motivated him enough to play at a Norris trophy level. Do you really think he would've had such a solid season if he had signed an 6 or 7 year deal in January?

 

[Roulin]

Habs management was lucky because their tactic with Subban motivated him enough to play at a Norris trophy level. Do you really think he would've had such a solid season if he had signed an 6 or 7 year deal in January?

Yes, absolutely. Subban's development has not been in fits and starts of being motivated/unmotivated, it has had an incredibly consistent upwards trajectory.

I believe levels of motivation are an overplayed narrative among fans and media anyway. By the time they make the NHL, these players have been accustomed to being self-motivated. Players like Subban, Chucky and Gally have been working with single minded purpose since a very young age, I don't see a big contract turning that switch off.

Furthermore, it's not just about length of contract. Bergevin lowballed Subban in both salary and term.

 

[Frozenice]

Habs management was lucky because their tactic with Subban motivated him enough to play at a Norris trophy level. Do you really think he would've had such a solid season if he had signed an 6 or 7 year deal in January?

Without a healthy Markov I doubt Subban would of even been nominated for the Norris. But, pointing out the obvious doesn't fit in with anyone's agenda here and it never gets brought up. Maybe he won the Norris because he quit eating cereal in the morning or he's wearing a Q-ray bracelet.

Believe what you want to believe.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

His team finished 2nd in the East in his first year on the job after being in the basement the year before, and was nominated for GM of the year.

To even suggest his "goodwill" is starting to run out is laughable.

I agree with the sentiment you expressed here but I am still going to play devil's advocate and question how much he had to do with the success we had this year. The results of the first year of a GM on the job isn't exactly proof of anything one way or another.

There are several huge flaw in the article.

First, why on Earth would PK take 6.5M on his remaining RFA years. He can easily go to Arbitration get 7-8m then become a UFA and sign his mega deal. We've lost all leverage in his remaining RFA years. He will start out asking for his 8+ even for his RFA years.

Second, how many UFA contracts increase in salary by 250K a year for their duration like the article is suggesting. I can't think of a single one. Any UFA contract will have most of the money up front. This is because of the time value of money, the extra million early on is worth more right away then in a few years.

Third, the article completely ignores the human factor. By low-balling him on his bridge deal we've essentially told him it's all business, so in his next contract when he has leverage he is more likely to use that to get the maximum amount he can because after all it's not personal it's just business. Had we given him a long term deal right away we would be more likely to get a hometown discount because we showed faith/loyalty in him.

Gotta love when people save you the trouble and just post exactly what you think. It's like you read my mind.

Last year I was saying the contrary. His defensive game was top notch, he just needed to dial in the offensive game to produce a Norris, and alas he did, and he produced a Norris.

I'd say his defensive game is actually his strength for the last 2 years. Not that he can't improve, but I am more nervous about him sustaining his offensive output than his defensive game.

So true, his ability to retrieve pucks, organize breakouts, skate, read the play, be unmovable with the puck.. all of that are easily repeatable skills.

Putting the puck in the net, and his teammates ability to put the puck in the net are not as easily repeatable.

But you and me, and others... we would have paid Subban not because he could be the #1 scorer for dmen. We would have paid him for his ability to drive the play to the other end of the ice.

I think PK is very good defensively, but he is still in the process of learning when to lay the big hit and when not to. I would love to also see him lay the big hit without his feet leaving the ice. Can't wait until PK refines all aspects of his already dominating game... he will be one very special player.

That's nitpicking. He missed like 5-6 hits like that, and maybe 1-2 of them lead to a scoring chance/goal. Overall it's a really minor gripe and is easily fixable. But also you don't want to temper his enthusiasm too much and these hits make the opponents more cautious.

 

[Habs Icing]

and question how much he had to do with the success we had this year.

1) Replaces a lame duck coaching staff with Therrien & his crew. From what I hear one or two of the assistants were MB's input.

2) Sends the Mexican/Honduras/Alaskan stand-up comic packing.

3) Revamps the professional scouting staff which leads to a few astute trades & signings that will be mentioned further down this long list.

4) Brings in Dudley Do Right to help with Gming the club.

5) Brings in Prust, Armstrong & Bouillon. Their veteran presence helped to gel the team.

6) His coach tells him two sub 20 rookies are ready to play in the NHL. He doesn't blink an eye and tells him to do what is right.

7) In the off season he cuts the dead weight ( like Campoli et al).

8) Cole made some very questionable comments. MB didn't panic and trade him between periods within the following week. He bid his time and made a very smart trade.

9) Within months the Habs went from an organization that Mike Milbury.....Mike pucking Milbury was making fun of and with good reason to an organization that started to approach the organization of the 80s & 90s. We'll wait a couple of more years to see if he is steering towards the one of the 50s, 60s & 70s.

I hope nine reasons are good enough for that lil devil of yours.

P.S. a 10th reason. his coach tells him Kaberle is a 4.5 mil liability. MB tells him to ignore the 4 & the 5 and look only at the zeros and play him accordingly.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I think you guys are paranoid. Those things rarely ever happen. There are very few teams that give guys coming out of their entry contracts the big Dough that early. It ruined Skinner.

Or the multiple concussions did...

No it's gotta be the contract.

Not that it would even mean anything if it was since not all players react the same way to signing a big long term deal. And if a player is going to start taking nights off because he got a big deal... he would take them off later in his career as well (see Moen).

 

[Cole Caulifield]

1) Replaces a lame duck coaching staff with Therrien & his crew. From what I hear one or two of the assistants were MB's input.

We had to replace Cunneyworth with someone. There wasn't really too many choices available. I guess we could have went with Hartley or Crawford. But yeah sure I'll give him props for picking the right guy for the last season. It remains to be seen if Therrien will also be the right guy moving forward but he was absolutely the perfect pick just for last season and that's what we are talking about. So yeah, MB deserves credit for that.

2) Sends the Mexican/Honduras/Alaskan stand-up comic packing.

Does he deserve credit for that ? That was the very definition of a no brainer move that any GM would have made. It wasn't even a hard sell for Molson since the buyout didn't cost anywhere near what the cap hit was.

3) Revamps the professional scouting staff which leads to a few astute trades & signings that will be mention further down this long list.

Off ice move with little impact on the actual on ice product for the shortened season.

4) Brings in Dudley Do Right to help with Gming the club.

Off ice move with little impact on the actual on ice product for the shortened season.

5) Brings in Prust, Armstrong & Bouillon. Their veteran presence helped to gel the team.

Armstrong was kind of a non factor. Bouillon and Prust were positive additions. But it's not like they're core players.

6) His coach tells him two sub 20 rookies are ready to play in the NHL. He doesn't blink an eye and tells him to do what is right.

Gallagher didn't even make the team at first I believe.

Keeping Galchenyuk up for the X amount of games trial was a no brainer. After that amount of time had passed, Galchenyuk had clearly shown he was there to stay.

I don't know how much Bergevin should be credited for that.

7) In the off season he cuts the dead weight ( like Campoli et al).

Give me other names than that because .. common.. Campoli ? It was the easiest thing to do, just not sign him again... and everyone would have done it.

8) Cole made some very questionable comments. MB didn't panic and trade him between periods within the following week. He bid his time and made a very smart trade.

I loved that trade. Had a huge impact on the season too. Big props to MB for that.

9) Within months the Habs went from an organization that Mike Milbury.....Mike pucking Milbury was making fun of and with good reason to an organization that started to approach the organization of the 80s & 90s. We'll wait a couple of more years to see if he is steering towards the one of the 50s, 60s & 70s.

I like some of the work Bergevin has done. Mostly the way he revamped the management and brought in a lot of hockey minds. I like those moves in theory. Now they have to produce results. But the results changed the perception here. If the habs had sucked, we would still have been laughed at. To me, that's not an actual reason/argument/point.

I hope nine reasons are good enough for that lil devil of yours.

The main driving influences behind the team were all players that were not brought in by Bergevin (Subban, Markov, Plekanec, Gallagher, Pacioretty, etc). With the exception of Prust and maybe Galchenyuk if you want to push it but I doubt Bergevin had a huge say in that.

I like some of the things Bergevin has done - mainly the revamping of the management. He has made some key moves you mentionned as well (Ryder, Prust) that have greatly helped the team. But a lot of that stuff was good secondary moves made to sustain a good thing, not the type of innovative move turning a team around completely. I think that is a fair assessment. I think the team had a good thing going with some of the prospects we drafted, and some young players developing, and just needed a nudge forward (Prust, Ryder, Therrien) to really get going the right way.

P.S. a 10th reason. his coach tells him Kaberle is a 4.5 mil liability. MB tells him to ignore the 4 & the 5 and look only at the zeros and play him accordingly.

That's an easy thing to do when you're no the one who traded for the players or signed them.

Let's see what happens with Brière, DD, etc if they struggle.

 

[snakeye]

The bridge contact was the right move because of the "WHO KNOWS???" factor, which turned out to be a positive "who knew". Subban won the norris, which was a positive deviation from the average projection people were giving him at the time of the signing. Did anyone KNOW he was going to win the norris? Of course not. Everyone's acting like they did, though. Hindsight......

Likewise, his his projection could have deviated negatively and he could have had a horrible season, even regressing quite a bit. But that's not possible due to his character and the awesome interviews he gives on OTR and his father is a great guy and..... Hindsight, and on top of that, rationalization for his success. FRICKEN GOMEZ had character at some point. What really matters is effectiveness on the ice, and MB wanted to see more of it before signing him long term for big bucks.

All the people that don't believe that subban could have regressed are being completely unrealistic and are right where they should be, behind a keyboar in their basement, far away from habs management.