TV: Ranking of the Best HBO Shows of All Time - #2

[FLYLine27*]

#1 - The Wire



DON'T FORGET TO SAY WHO YOU WANT ADDED. Band of Brothers had the most requests this round.

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[tacogeoff]

BoB all day but a close second for GoT .

 

[McOilers97]

Add Deadwood.

 

[Gee Wally]

add Deadwood

 

[Jersey Fresh]

In disbelief that the Sopranos was not number 1...

Add Rome.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Not really sure how to vote. Band of Brothers is pretty much perfect but it's only 10 episodes, and GOT and Curb haven't ended yet, which would, by default, make The Sopranos my second favorite full HBO show (I know it's cliche to say at this point, but The Wire really is the GOAT).


So all I'll say for now is...add Deadwood, Curb, and Rome.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Six Feet Under rather easily.

Band of Brothers a somewhat close third.

I fully expect Game of Thrones to win this round even though it shouldn't be more than 5th or so.

 

[Blender]

Add Rome.

 

[sully1410]

Add Treme.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Six Feet Under rather easily.

Band of Brothers a somewhat close third.

I fully expect Game of Thrones to win this round even though it shouldn't be more than 5th or so.

Well, in your opinion. Not in the general opinion. But it will probably be 3rd, not 2nd.

 

[Sharpshooter]

Six Feet Under rather easily.

Band of Brothers a somewhat close third.

I fully expect Game of Thrones to win this round even though it shouldn't be more than 5th or so.

Nonsense. There hasn't been a more expansive world nor better dialogue, characters, plot, plot twists, feel good moments, viewer rage, than GoT.

Absolutely GoT is the best if not 2nd best HBO made series, and tv series in the history of mankind.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Well, in your opinion. Not in the general opinion. But it will probably be 3rd, not 2nd.

If we're going by critical acclaim and ranking lists, it regularly comes in behind The Wire, Six Feet Under, The Sopranos and usually Deadwood and Band of Brothers, so I'm unsure of which general opinion you're referencing.

Game of Thrones is an excellent television show and one of the best/most enjoyable that's ever been on TV, but it has a tendency to be overrated by its fans on the internet because of the cult like following it's accrued and the discussion it inspires. Much like LOST, actually. Both shows are very similar in that vein.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Nonsense. There hasn't been a more expansive world nor better dialogue, characters, plot, plot twists, feel good moments, viewer rage, than GoT.

Absolutely GoT is the best if not 2nd best HBO made series, and tv series in the history of mankind.

Really all of this is subjective, but it's a little silly to outright make arbitrary statements like that when shows like The Wire and Six Feet Under, Deadwood, Band of Brothers and others have also had incredible dialogue, character development, writing, cinematography, direction etc. Stuff like viewer rage and feel good moments is entirely subjective.

I'm a fan of the show as well but declarations like this are what lead to the calls of overrated having credence. The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, The Twilight Zone, The Wire, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The West Wing, Friday Night Lights, Arrested Development, I Love Lucy... to automatically place Game of Thrones above all of those on an all-time basis is something that I just can't do without any thought about it, personally.

 

[HanSolo]

Never watched 6 Feet Under to the point where I don't even know what the hell it's about. So Band of Brothers for me, then GoT, then the Sopranos

 

[Sharpshooter]

Really all of this is subjective, but it's a little silly to outright make arbitrary statements like that when shows like The Wire and Six Feet Under, Deadwood, Band of Brothers and others have also had incredible dialogue, character development, writing etc. Stuff like viewer rage and feel good moments is entirely subjective.

I'm a fan of the show as well but declarations like this are what lead to the calls of overrated having credence. The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, The Twilight Zone, The Wire, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The West Wing, Friday Night Lights, Arrested Development, I Love Lucy... to automatically place Game of Thrones above all of those is something that I just can't do, personally.

It is subjective, no doubt. We agree. So let's discuss on our agreements.

The Wire has already won the first place, so let's get it out of the convo.

Out of all the writing ever put into a show, which show has the writing that GRRM has, which allowed GoT to be the success that it is over the first 4 years of the show? Which show after 4 year was/is better for the objective/subjective payoff that GoT is? Which show has a global audience that tunes is as much as GoT? Which show is more award winning(And I don't know the answer to this one)? Which show has captivate audiences globally more than GoT on an HBO platform?

Are my declarations out of sort then? Have I overreached based on the most watched and followed HBO show of all time?

Yes, it's subjective, and I respect your own subjective fave, but if you're honest, are you suggesting that GoT isn't the most highly ranked show for HBO of all time? Not only fans, but for HBO itself?

 

[Jumptheshark]

In disbelief that the Sopranos was not number 1...

Add Rome.

doing a re-watch right now and I agree

 

[Shareefruck]

I think an argument can be made that it's undoubtedly one of their most successful overall (most of all, popular). Not sure what would make it the most "highly ranked" though. I don't think there's a very compelling argument for it being the most flawlessly crafted/executed, personally. And in terms of how much I like it/value it/am impressed by it, it's way way down the list of great shows HBO has put out.

It's good at what it does (at least in the first four seasons, anyways), but I just don't think addictiveness, clever snappy dialogue, big, built-up climactic plot-twisty pay-offs, strategic intrigue, production values, and being engaged by who is/isn't going to die or who will win a game of wits are enough to make up the highest order of what kind of experience you can get from a TV show. Even when it's going well, its focuses feel kind of superficial, fanboy-ish, commercial product-ish, and limited, to me. And even by its own aims/goals/strengths it has some consistency issues and missteps peppered throughout it. Like, when I go back and watch a season that I think and remember as being great, there are still moments/entire side-plots in it that make you kind of go "Oh, this part isn't really as up to snuff as the rest of it." I think it's a show that's heavily reliant on the fun and charm of its performers, like Dinklage and Dance, and the "genius" of the complex interweaving storytelling is a bit overstated.

Not that the other shows don't have their own flaws as well (as much as I love Six Feet Under and everything it's about, it does meander and feel a bit unfocused at times). I think they have fewer flaws/limitations, but I also find their highs more meaningful/personal/thoughtful, authentic/uncompromising/fresh, and creatively satisfying/inspired, which makes it easier to forgive their flaws.

It's comparable to stuff like True Detective and Breaking Bad for me, but I definitely have those in a lesser tier than shows like The Wire, Deadwood, Sopranos, Mad Men, and Six Feet Under, which feel more special, deftly executed, and valuable than merely addictive, buildup-climax-buildup-climax style entertainment, which I can get bored of pretty easily.

 

[Led Zappa]

More of GOT's scenes are just flat out boring compared to the shows I'd put at the top.

Not sure why there's only 5 options either.

Add Deadwood, Rome

 

[Jumptheshark]

no love for OZ?

Boardwalk empire
EAstbound and down
Flight of the Concords
Larry Sanders
Curb Your Enthusiasm

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Carnivale never should have been canceled. In my top 5/6 personally, but it's not really for everyone.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

It is subjective, no doubt. We agree. So let's discuss on our agreements.

The Wire has already won the first place, so let's get it out of the convo.

Out of all the writing ever put into a show, which show has the writing that GRRM has, which allowed GoT to be the success that it is over the first 4 years of the show? Which show after 4 year was/is better for the objective/subjective payoff that GoT is? Which show has a global audience that tunes is as much as GoT? Which show is more award winning(And I don't know the answer to this one)? Which show has captivate audiences globally more than GoT on an HBO platform?

Are my declarations out of sort then? Have I overreached based on the most watched and followed HBO show of all time?

Yes, it's subjective, and I respect your own subjective fave, but if you're honest, are you suggesting that GoT isn't the most highly ranked show for HBO of all time? Not only fans, but for HBO itself?

Let me first apologize to Sharee, because I'm going to commandeer some of his adjectives.

I do agree that Game of Thrones is a phenomenon in that it is insanely popular, successful, encourages and inspires discussion about it like few shows have ever done (LOST and Breaking Bad, the other two that may be comparable in this respect), and does a lot of things incredibly well. I just want to make it clear, because you know that I am a huge fan of Game of Thrones, look forward to each episode enthusiastically, -- and heck, my pseudonym is a play on a character from the show -- that my opinion isn't an indictment that the show is horrible or comparably bad, per se, to the other series I value more highly.

The only way I can put it that makes sense is shows like The Wire or Six Feet Under are able to resonate with me personally, and IMO audiences as a whole, on a more visceral, material and authentic level, to steal an adjective from Sharee, because of the themes they tackled and how while they're fictional in nature, the subject matter is non-fictional and easy to relate to in some manner.

Six Feet Under, to make my point, is a humane exploration of life and death and all the ties that bind us personally to one another in between. It is depressing, it is uplifting; it makes you laugh, it makes you cry... at its best, it makes you ponder realities about your own life and the existence you've led. On a personal level, few shows have the ability to do that. In The Wire's case, it's a gritty, authentic, no holds barred exploration of the sociological themes that play an every day factor for those influenced by urban life and inequality; it blurs the line between fiction and non-fiction, to a degree, by exploring the illegal drug trade, the blue collar working class, politics and bureaucracy, education and the media and delving into issues that are relevant and apropos to real life but typically willfully ignored and misunderstood.

So, I agree with you that the source material, even though I haven't read it, for Game of Thrones is extraordinary and has brought to television a beautiful, nuanced, complex world inhabited by incredibly written and acted characters. And the production values -- from direction, to cinematography and wardrobe -- are absolutely exceptional. The political machinations, scheming, maneuvering and arching branches that weave themselves throughout every interaction are addictive and pay off in satisfying conclusions. I find it intriguing and captivating, there's no argument about that. I will both agree and disagree with Sharee in that while the show does have missteps, consistency issues (points in season 2 and 5 for me) and can infrequently resort to relying on convoluted tropes and superficial moments; by and large, for the most part, it blends the politics, mythology and characters of Game of Thrones' world into a more than satisfying whole that makes for outstanding entertainment.

I'm going to try my best to have this translate from my head to the screen and still make some measure of sense, forgive me if it does not. Game of Thrones, fictional in premise, being set in a high fantasy world, is harder to emotionally and authentically connect to on an personal level compared to the connection one can make with, for example, Six Feet Under or The Wire. This is not the show's fault and shouldn't be a strike against it but like Sharee mentioned, the highs in some shows are more authentic and inspiring because they connect meaningfully and on a level that can be easier to personally relate to. They are more powerful and special. That's not to say Game of Thrones can't strike those same emotional balances, but it simply does it in a different way that lacks the same visceral punch.

With shows like Band of Brothers or the Sopranos or The West Wing, Twilight Zone or Arrested Development the argument doesn't apply as an apples to apples comparison but they are, I'd argue, while flawed and dealing with their own limitations --applicable to SFU and The Wire too-- (Thanks, Sharee ) not as flawed as Game of Thrones as an overall whole. I do subscribe to the notion this is partly due to the subject matter they deal with which is, IMO, easier to execute well than Game of Thrones' premise which is always going to fall prey to some measure of drawbacks. You can only make certain tropes, plot-lines and strategic intrigue seem completely fresh and new so many times. The shows I mentioned are also complete while Game of Thrones is still not able to be compared to them as an overall whole with a beginning, middle and end which goes against its favor in these comparisons, I'll fully admit.

I respect your opinions and your views, Sharp. I think that our viewing habits probably align pretty well and we agree for the most part more than we disagree. I can't help that some shows to me resonate on a poignant and profound level that Game of Thrones simply doesn't match. I still love it however and it ranks very highly on my all time list. For curiosities sake though, have you seen The Wire or Six Feet Under? I think you'd really enjoy em, in the case that you haven't.

 

[Diddy]

I don't watch a lot HBO. In fact I haven't seen any of these shows but I'm wondering where y'all would say entourage would place. It's pretty much the only HBO show I've watched in its entirety.

 

[LosVikingsDeChicago]

How come 1st and 10 isn't listed?

 

[McOilers97]

Carnivale never should have been canceled. In my top 5/6 personally, but it's not really for everyone.

Oh you're so right, what I wouldn't give to see that show get the full 6 season run that was intended.

 

[Shareefruck]

I kind of see it like this..... shows like Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad are obviously very entertaining and addictive, and their rabid popularity speaks to that. The production values are top-drawer, and the creators put enough care into the product that it's not just going to be "mindless" entertainment. This clearly sets them apart from lesser shows like Walking Dead, 24, Dexter, or Prison Break.

But still, you can tell from the way the seasons play out that above all else, the thing that holds greatest priority for these shows is the entertainment value, keeping you hooked episode after episode, and giving you a big exciting and dramatic payoff, season after season. It becomes sort of the same sure-fire crowd-pleasing formula that everyone uses. The showrunners will support this with meaning, symbolism, foreshadowing, easter eggs, and social relevance, but that's all treated like it's secondary. You watch it, first and foremost, because you're sucked into this formula-- you like the characters, are intrigued by the trouble they dig themselves into, you're invested in who's going to live or die and who's going to win or lose. It's just down up down up down up and that's the main focus.

That's fine, there's obviously a very receptive and abundant audience for it, and it's very well done for what it is, which critics appreciate. Everyone's happy. But I do think it makes the whole thing feel a bit superficial and that there's a ceiling to what you can do with that. The ideas, themes, meaning, authenticity, big picture concept, and form, while present, all end up playing second fiddle to the sales pitch to convince you to keep watching it. As a result, even if it's done really well and is really fun and addictive, it still kind of feels more like a masturbatory product rather than a pure, inspired, expressive, authentic, and important piece of television. Not that this can't still be good, or even great. But some shows don't make that compromise, don't fall into that trap, and can end up potentially feeling like so much more-- an entire order of magnitude more satisfying, for my money-- despite possibly trading in some popularity/accessibility/success to do it. In my opinion, those are the ones that are really worth singling out as the best.