Ranking NHL Teams By Defencemen

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Toronto is definitely top 10 for me.

They have an elite #1, Barrie is also a #1, muzzin is a #2, and one of ceci/Dermott is easily a #4.
Whoever doesn't win that #4 spot is a great #5 and filling the $6 hole is easy, I think Liljeren has the inside edge.
Toronto has good personal, they have to live up to their potential though.

Rielly is not “elite”
Barrie is not a #1
Muzzin is not a #2

Ceci is meh


Take off the blue glasses bro

 

[Sam Spade]

That list is really bad. Too many bad teams ranked way too high.

Ryan Suter-Jared Spurgeon
Jonas Brodin-Matt Dumba
Nick Seeler-Greg Pateryn
is a top ten defense.

Zach Werenski-Seth Jones
Ryan Murray-David Savard
Vladislav Gavrikov-Markus Nutivaara
is a top five defense.

Morgan Rielly-Cody Ceci
Jake Muzzin-Tyson Barrie
Ben Harpur-Justin Holl
is NOT a top ten defense

Ivan Provorov-Justin Braun
Travis Sanheim-Matt Niskanen
Shayne Gostisbehere-Philippe Myers
this MIGHT be a top ten defense but right now today, no way.

Nick Leddy-Johnny Boychuk
Adam Pelech-Ryan Pulock
Devon Toews-Scott Mayfield
is not the number 20 defense in the NHL.

 

[Larry Fisher]

He's ranking defencemen as a whole, not just defensive capability. In terms of overall skill: Rielly > McAvoy, Muzzin >> Carlo, and Barrie = Krug. The Bruins have better depth, without a doubt, but the Leafs top guys are simply better. The Bruins d-men ARE better at defending though

This was pretty much my thought process in comparing Toronto vs. Boston. We haven't seen what Toronto can do with Barrie or a full season of Muzzin. I think the results will be impressive, but time will tell.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Almost all of Toronto's defensemen are expiring after this year, but Spurgeon being the same drops us that far? I don't buy it.

And any "rust" that Dumba has will be knocked off far before the games hit double digits. I'd get it if there were questions about his availability for the season, but there aren't.

 

[Viqsi]

Believe it or not, not every "legit analyst" has the same opinions. You could poll all the "legit analysts" that you follow to rank the NHL teams by defence and you'd get a wide variety of results. Heck, you could poll the 31 NHL head coaches to rank the teams by defence and get a wide variety of results. I am but one opinion. You don't like that opinion. We get that. It doesn't make my opinion wrong because you think you are right. Everyone is entitled to their opinions as "legit analysts". Look at those NHL Network Top 20 positional player rankings, are those "legit analysts"? Pretty sure they have been torn apart too, every year. We need thick skin to be "legit analysts" because, as I said, this is one man's opinion and not every man thinks the same. That is fine. Carry on.

Yeah, except that virtually every single other analyst out there doesn't have the Jackets blueline outside of the top 10. Most of them don't have the Jackets outside of the top 5. You're the outlier, and you can't even justify why in a coherent manner.

 

[Larry Fisher]

That list is really bad. Too many bad teams ranked way too high.

Ryan Suter-Jared Spurgeon
Jonas Brodin-Matt Dumba
Nick Seeler-Greg Pateryn
is a top ten defense.

Zach Werenski-Seth Jones
Ryan Murray-David Savard
Vladislav Gavrikov-Markus Nutivaara
is a top five defense.

Morgan Rielly-Cody Ceci
Jake Muzzin-Tyson Barrie
Ben Harpur-Justin Holl
is NOT a top ten defense

Ivan Provorov-Justin Braun
Travis Sanheim-Matt Niskanen
Shayne Gostisbehere-Philippe Myers
this MIGHT be a top ten defense but right now today, no way.

Nick Leddy-Johnny Boychuk
Adam Pelech-Ryan Pulock
Devon Toews-Scott Mayfield
is not the number 20 defense in the NHL.

You are definitely entitled to your opinion. That's how I see it. I think Toronto and Philadelphia are going to surprise this season with their new additions on D. I think the Islanders are a product of their system, not necessarily their talent. And I'm just not as high on Columbus and Minnesota as others seem to be. That's fine, we don't all have to think the same.

 

[Advanced stats]

Rielly is not “elite”
Barrie is not a #1
Muzzin is not a #2

Ceci is meh


Take off the blue glasses bro

Oh dear, I think you're in the minority with those opinions.

Rielly has 125 points over the last 2 seasons and finished 5th in Norris voting this past year. Let's remember that he's 25 and just coming into his prime.

Every list has Barrie as a top 30 Defenseman which makes him a #1 by definition. Plain and simple.

Muzzin has been a #2 for years now, in LA and Toronto. He's at worst an elite #3 if that makes you feel better.


No glasses on me man, Toronto has a great d corps

 

[Viqsi]

And I'm just not as high on Columbus and Minnesota as others seem to be.

"I'm just not as high on Jack Hughes and Kaapo Kakko as others seem to be. Spencer Knight #1 overall. Followed by Moritz Seider."

 

[Larry Fisher]

Almost all of Toronto's defensemen are expiring after this year, but Spurgeon being the same drops us that far? I don't buy it.

And any "rust" that Dumba has will be knocked off far before the games hit double digits. I'd get it if there were questions about his availability for the season, but there aren't.

Time will tell. I'm a big Dumba fan, but he's been out a long time and he plays a high-risk, high-reward style that could get exposed if his timing isn't right. It'll be an adjustment for him coming back.

Spurgeon's contract status hardly played a factor, but the difference between Spurgeon and Toronto's guys (Barrie/Muzzin/Ceci) is that we all know Toronto is in win-now mode whereas Minnesota might be entering a rebuild under Guerin and thus more likely to sell on Spurgeon. These rankings take into account the season as a whole, not just opening night. So if the Wild are out of the playoff race and Spurgeon is out of the picture at the trade deadline, things look quite different for Minnesota. Hypothetical and thus why it "hardly played a factor" in the ranking, which I've repeated multiple times now.

 

[Lunatik]

I think the Flames defense is getting slept on here. The Flames finished tops in shots against per game and 9th in goals against despite having a goaltending duo that had a paltry .905 Sv%. Everyone in the top 5 other than the Sharks (I'll get to them next) had significantly better goaltending than Calgary did last year to help their defense out.

Also, San Jose's defense is too high, no way are they #1, sure they have great offensive potential in EK and Burns, but when it comes to actually playing defense, the Sharks as a team struggled and were 21st in goals against.

The Islanders and Golden Knights should be significantly higher IMO.

One would think actual defensive play has to count for more than big names and offensive output in a list ranking DEFENSE, but no, that's clearly not the case.

 

[Larry Fisher]

"I'm just not as high on Jack Hughes and Kaapo Kakko as others seem to be. Spencer Knight #1 overall. Followed by Moritz Seider."

It's funny you say that, how many people had Moritz Seider ranked sixth overall for the draft? You see, not everyone thinks the same. Different people really do have different lists and different opinions.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I just think there are instances where you should let something actually happen, instead of trying to prognosticate scenarios that aren't likely.

I mean, in Minnesota's case, yes, we probably aren't a top 10 defense if the worst possible scenarios occur with all of our best 3 defensemen. But why would we be any different than any other team in that regard?

 

[Viqsi]

It's funny you say that, how many people had Moritz Seider ranked sixth overall for the draft? You see, not everyone thinks the same. Different people really do have different lists and different opinions.

There's "different opinions" and then there's "incoherently unexplained radical outliers". Most folks, when they have a radical difference of opinion from the overwhelming majority, are able to explain it without tripping over their own supposedly established ground rules or hiding behind "agree to disagree". Usually people pick up that ability when they've ostensibly been reporting their opinions for a decade and a half, and yet you seem to lack it.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Time will tell. I'm a big Dumba fan, but he's been out a long time and he plays a high-risk, high-reward style that could get exposed if his timing isn't right. It'll be an adjustment for him coming back.

No offense, but this seems like "searching for a reason" to me.

He was out 50 games, not 3 years.

 

[Lunatik]

It's funny you say that, how many people had Moritz Seider ranked sixth overall for the draft? You see, not everyone thinks the same. Different people really do have different lists and different opinions.

Yes, and some are far better than others. Your lists appear to be the others.

 

[Lunatik]

No offense, but this seems like "searching for a reason" to me.

He was out 50 games, not 3 years.

Not only that but he was out was a pectoral injury, not anything that will hurt his skating.

 

[BruinsBtn]

He's ranking defencemen as a whole, not just defensive capability. In terms of overall skill: Rielly > McAvoy, Muzzin >> Carlo, and Barrie = Krug. The Bruins have better depth, without a doubt, but the Leafs top guys are simply better. The Bruins d-men ARE better at defending though

In his dreams. Muzzin had more goals against in 7 playoff games than Carlo did in the entire playoffs. McAvoy has already passed Rielly and will lap him soon. Take any two defensemen off the Bruins and they're still ahead of the Leafs. Protecting a lead I'll take Chara with literally any of the Bruins top-10 defensemen over any two Leafs. The Bruins just humiliated the Leafs PK and Toronto got rid of two of the only guys on their team who know how to PK.

 

[txpd]

Regardless of the pairings — which were mostly plucked off CapFriendly's Depth Charts, with some tweaking for certain teams as I saw fit — the seven players remain the same on defence and thus the ranking would also remain the same. But I do appreciate the clarification on the more likely pairs according to the Capitals' brass/coaches. Duly noted.

The basic problem with your calc is that Jensen is a player. Yea, a defense corp with a Norris Trophy caliber defenseman on one pair but Radko Gudas on the 2nd pair is a problem. You are underrating Jensen by making him interchangeable with Gudas and by that underrating the defense corp.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Personally, I think Toronto is ranked too low. Great list though

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

In his dreams. Muzzin had more goals against in 7 playoff games than Carlo did in the entire playoffs. McAvoy has already passed Rielly and will lap him soon. Take any two defensemen off the Bruins and they're still ahead of the Leafs. Protecting a lead I'll take Chara with literally any of the Bruins top-10 defensemen over any two Leafs. The Bruins just humiliated the Leafs PK and Toronto got rid of two of the only guys on their team who know how to PK.

I was with you till here

 

[Legionnaire11]

Agree or disagree, I appreciate the work you put into your articles Larry and then taking time to share them and debate them with us!

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Cody Ceci keeps the Leafs bottom 5

 

[Viqsi]

Cody Ceci keeps the Leafs bottom 5

The article has enough absurdity without adding more. He's bad, but he's not that much of a deadweight.

 

[Larry Fisher]

There's "different opinions" and then there's "incoherently unexplained radical outliers". Most folks, when they have a radical difference of opinion from the overwhelming majority, are able to explain it without tripping over their own supposedly established ground rules or hiding behind "agree to disagree". Usually people pick up that ability when they've ostensibly been reporting their opinions for a decade and a half, and yet you seem to lack it.

I have explained my reasoning in the analysis and in the comments here. You don't like the reasoning, so you keep furthering the disagreement. Maybe go back and read my analysis and read my responses to you here. Obviously you are missing something. My stance hasn't changed, you haven't presented any facts in favour of Columbus' defence that made me go "wow, I didn't know that, I really should have ranked them higher ... "

 

[TK 421]

Larry do you drink as you read your hate mail? I imagine you drinking doubles as like a mental preparation for dealing with pissed off people with opinions.