These are who I would consider to be the greatest two-way centers in history.
How would you rank them and why?
How would you rank them and why?
For me it is
Trottier, Clarke, Mikita, Schmidt, Yzerman, Sakic, Messier
although it could change each time you ask me.
Trottier I just believe in his prime could play in any era and be an absolute force. The guy was so strong on his skates, so talented, had great leadership and grit..
Clarke I think is probably the best two-way center at his absolute peak but I think Trottier beats him out overall. I also don't think Clarke's game would translate to other eras quite as well because in other eras referees actually called slashing and elbowing and butt ending and spearing and on and on.. the guy was dirty and that takes him down a notch in my books.
I am not as familiar with Mikita and Schmidt since they were before my time but everyone here knows their well deserved reputations and their offensive numbers (especially Mikita leading the league) are quite impressive for the times they played in.. Schmidt is a total class act. Love seeing him in the Legends of Hockey interviews.
To me Sakic and Yzerman are almost interchangeable. Honestly I think both were quite adept defensively but I think Sakic was somewhat overlooked in that regard during his career. I also think that Yzerman, while having adapted his game to be a very strong two-way player, actually gets a little more credit for it than he really deserves. By the time he was really great defensively it was because he had to be to be competitive as his offensive game trailed off badly.
Messier I don't regard as a standout defensively. He is a fantastic all around player and certainly competent defensively but I don't ever remember him being considered a really shutdown type guy. He is just an offensive player with a mean physical streak, outstanding leadership and solid defensive play.
I think you should do some research on Stan Mikita - I think you'll find that he is clearly the best of these players. He is, by far, the best offensive player here, and his well-rounded game is very impressive aswell. He was a king in the face-off circle, an excellent defensive player, and a gritty, mean son of a gun.
Did this turn into a best overall player thing?
I thought it was best two-way center as in best combined offense and defense at the same time.
I would think overall.Did this turn into a best overall player thing?
I thought it was best two-way center as in best combined offense and defense at the same time.
That was merely the agitator aspect of his game. The rest of his game would translate just fine.Clarke I think is probably the best two-way center at his absolute peak but I think Trottier beats him out overall. I also don't think Clarke's game would translate to other eras quite as well because in other eras referees actually called slashing and elbowing and butt ending and spearing and on and on.. the guy was dirty and that takes him down a notch in my books.
I would think overall.
Defensively, this is who I consider the best.
Schmidt will be hard for me to rank defensively simply because he was nearly retired by the time I started watching hockey and because I was too young.
Clarke (Not close)
Yzerman post Bowman(Before which he would not stack up with these guys defensively at all)
Trottier
Mikita
Sakic Messier
Overall, I ranked them:
Mikita
Messier/Clarke
Trottier
Sakic
Yzerman
Schmidt
I'm having a hard time picking the order, which is a sign of a great list
Mikita
Clarke
Trottier
Messier
Sakic
Yzerman
Schmidt
Yeah, my rankings would change a bit for overall but oh well..
I've never understood why 2-way player tends to get rated more on the defensive aspect of it. After all, it is 2-way, not 1-way.
Mikita
Clarke
Trottier
Sakic
Yzerman
Messier
Schmidt
#3 Messier
very similar to Trottier. He did experience a great deal of success in wins, cups, various teams and was a fantastic leader and winner. I believe his stats are somewhat inflated because of those strong Oiler teams (as are Glenn Anderson, Paul Coffey, Jari Kurri - they all rode that 99train for a long time. Players, management, coaches, etc - they all have 99 to thank.)