Rangers prospects strong in goal, weak elsewhere

[HF Article]

Photo: Pavel Buchnevich’s six points helped Russia to a silver-medal finish at the 2015 World Junior Championships. (Courtesy of Minas Panagiotakis/Getty Images)


</p>The summer of 2015 has seen big changes in the New York Rangers’ front office. After 15 years as president and general manager of the team, Glen Sather stepped down as GM on July 1. The club appointed former assistant GM Jeff Gorton to succeed him, and although Sather has retained his title as president, he will be less involved with day-to-day decisions this season and will not be pulling the trigger on trades.

In addition, the club has named 34-year-old Steve Greeley as Assistant Director of Player Personnel, and appointed former Ranger Chris Drury as the Director of Player Development.… read more

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[UAGoalieGuy]

No comments on this? Wow.

 

[eco's bones]

No comments on this? Wow.

It's a point of view and I think a lot of these guys as far as ranking could be viewed as very close to each other. I will say that I don't see Graves' upside as higher than McIlrath's and McIlrath is a lot closer to the NHL today than Graves is. So there's that--that's one area of disagreement I have with this list. We do have 4 really good goalie prospects and 5 if you include Raanta. That's a big change from a couple years ago. Not all of them--maybe only one or two can be expected to have any impact as goalies for the Rangers.

Lindberg and McIlrath mainly would be higher. I'm wondering a little about Zamorsky too. I do respect Leslie's opinions on these things. She's seen more of these players a lot more often than I have and she has some connections to people in the know in Rangers scouting/management.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Pretty standard list. I view our system like this.

Pavel will be a PPG player eventually if he comes over, IMO. Skjei is very likely a top 4 defenseman, possible top pair upside. Lindberg and McIlrath have similar profiles but play different positions. Both are NHL players, but limited upside. Lindberg's upside is 3rd line center, McIlrath's is a #4/5 defenseman. I can't say much on the recent draft picks, but I think they all have NHL potential, although none seem like potential superstars. Graves and Tambellini both had good overage CHL seasons. Potential for both to be good players in the NHL, but there's a lot of risk in thinking much of overage CHL seasons. We have three goalie prospects (four if you count Hellberg) that could be Hank's eventual replacement. Goalies are hard to predict. The hope is that at least one of them is an NHL caliber starting goalie.

Besides that, I don't think there are any NHL players in our system.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Our graduation rate seems pretty good

 

[nyr2k2]

Graves is the most overrated prospect in our system, in my opinion. I think the offensive numbers he posted last year have inflated his perceived ability on this board. I don't see his offense translating much to the professional game. There's a very real chance he never even becomes as good as McIlrath is currently.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Graves is the most overrated prospect in our system, in my opinion. I think the offensive numbers he posted last year have inflated his perceived ability on this board. I don't see his offense translating much to the professional game. There's a very real chance he never even becomes as good as McIlrath is currently.

I like Graves a lot, and I fully recognize that the offense may not translate. He's huge and has developed into a much smoother skater than I think anyone ever anticipated. I thought he was the best defenseman behind McIlrath in the NJ game. Looking forward to watching him at HFD.

 

[nyr2k2]

I don't mean to imply that he's not a good prospect. I like him a good deal. I just don't think he's a top five prospect, even in our shallow system.

 

[eco's bones]

Graves is the most overrated prospect in our system, in my opinion. I think the offensive numbers he posted last year have inflated his perceived ability on this board. I don't see his offense translating much to the professional game. There's a very real chance he never even becomes as good as McIlrath is currently.

I agree. If and when Graves makes the NHL he will be a stay at home physical defenseman with size. He's got Mike Sauer upside--maybe a little bigger and tougher. FWIW we're not going to be looking for a lot of offense out of McIlrath either......so 'if' Graves develops as hoped we've got a similar style player and I think a lot of us know what some people here think about stay at home D--some can live with a couple of them as long as they're not making any money.

Graves is a good prospect. The Rangers have one of the weakest prospect groups in the NHL--even so Graves is way too high here for me. Maybe after half or a whole season in Hartford I'll look at him differently--first he's got to show he can play regularly for the Wolfpack.

 

[broadwayblue]

The Rangers have one of the weakest prospect groups in the NHL

When you give away a boat load of assets trying to get over the hump as this team has done, it's not hard to see why.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yet probably only about ten teams have a prospect as good as our best prospect.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Rangers pool is probably in the bottom third of the league, closer to the 24-27 range.

 

[Vitto79]

They had like no goalie prospects 2 years ago . Not concerned since the actual roster is young and more like lindberg and skjei are going to be regulars soon

 

[cd211]

people put WAY to much weight into having the best prospect system.. look at the bottom feeders around the league that have the best prospects.. what have those teams done with those prospects??? even edm whos had 3 1st overalls hasn't correlated that into success yet..

i think we develop well and no need to panic when most of your core is under 28 years old.. but people look at us as our window is closing, they should look at our team and actually see whos who before saying that. we've also graduated most of our 1st rounders in NHL players, a lot cant say that..

Kreider (24)
Stepan (25)
Hayes (23)
Miller (23)
Fast (24)
Etem (23)
Lindberg (24)
Brass(28)
MZA (28)

our d is on the older side but d have longer careers then Fwds.

Mcd (26) Staal (28) Yandle (29) and prospects in Skjei (22) and McIrath (24) are still young and will be impacts IMO as soon as this year..

 

[frozenrubber]

Yet probably only about ten teams have a prospect as good as our best prospect.

If you believe that, I have a bridge, NAY, an Evgeny Grachev jersey to sell you.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

If you believe that, I have a bridge, NAY, an Evgeny Grachev jersey to sell you.

I don't know if you are underrating Buchnevich or what....

 

[Beacon]

Besides the goalies (Shesterkin, Skapski, Halvy, Hellberg), the Rangers have a strong group on the blue line too: McIlrath, Skjei, Graves, Andersson, Bodie, Hughes, Zamorsky, Zborovskiy. But the bias against McIlrath is killing it. Last year we were told that Noreau is where the Rangers had hoped McIlrath would be. I guess the brass was hoping McIlrath will be in the ECHL.

 

[Beacon]

The weakness of the prospect corps won't effect the team immediately, just as having strong prospect corps makes you a good team right now. It's the long-term that's worrying.

This year, the team will likely add Lindberg and McIlrath. Next year, it will be Butcher and Skjei. Maybe Graves and Nieves or Rambo make it in two years.

Andersson, Bodie, Bourque, Donnay, Fogarty, Hrivik, Hughes, Iverson, Kantor, Lindblad, Mantha, McCarthy, Nicholls and Noreau all have very limited upside where even if they make it, they'll be a dime a dozen players. St. Croix has the offensive skill, but nothing else so he'll be lucky just to become a good AHLer. Don't know enough about Zamorsky. Richard Anisimov could have potential, but he never dominated the juniors offensively. The remainder are the 2015 draftees who are too young to predict at this point.

We should be ok until Lundqvist's career is on the downward spiral due to age, but around his late 30s, we'll probably be collapsing on all fronts, needing a full rebuild. I just hope we do not again waste a half dozen years trying to rebuild on the fly, and just have a fire-sale and build properly from scratch.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If you believe that, I have a bridge, NAY, an Evgeny Grachev jersey to sell you.

Oh, thats right.

Sorry, five teams.

 

[haveandare]

The weakness of the prospect corps won't effect the team immediately, just as having strong prospect corps makes you a good team right now. It's the long-term that's worrying.

This year, the team will likely add Lindberg and McIlrath. Next year, it will be Butcher and Skjei. Maybe Graves and Nieves or Rambo make it in two years.

Andersson, Bodie, Bourque, Donnay, Fogarty, Hrivik, Hughes, Iverson, Kantor, Lindblad, Mantha, McCarthy, Nicholls and Noreau all have very limited upside where even if they make it, they'll be a dime a dozen players. St. Croix has the offensive skill, but nothing else so he'll be lucky just to become a good AHLer. Don't know enough about Zamorsky. Richard Anisimov could have potential, but he never dominated the juniors offensively. The remainder are the 2015 draftees who are too young to predict at this point.

We should be ok until Lundqvist's career is on the downward spiral due to age, but around his late 30s, we'll probably be collapsing on all fronts, needing a full rebuild. I just hope we do not again waste a half dozen years trying to rebuild on the fly, and just have a fire-sale and build properly from scratch.

It sounds like you're saying the kids we haven't even drafted yet are going to let us down. It's too early for the kids taken this year, but up until them we have 1 or 2 possible nhlers in each class. I don't see the problem really. Being able to add a player or two every year is the ideal outcome. I'd rather get that from a thin looking pool than be flush wth prospects who don't pan out or who still only pan out around 1-2 players a year.

All that matters is how many guys you can work into the NHL. The size of the pool they come from, and how many rejects you have in addition, is fairly unimportant.

 

[Beacon]

It sounds like you're saying the kids we haven't even drafted yet are going to let us down.

No, but they will take 2-6 years to make the NHL and another couple of years to fully adjust to the NHL, so it will take a while for 2016 draftees to get to the NHL in their prime.

Considering where our prospect pool is today and that we do not have a first round pick next year, unless a whole bunch of kids wind up surprising us, a real rebuild that involves sinking would be necessary.

 

[broadwayblue]

people put WAY to much weight into having the best prospect system.. look at the bottom feeders around the league that have the best prospects.. what have those teams done with those prospects??? even edm whos had 3 1st overalls hasn't correlated that into success yet..

i think we develop well and no need to panic when most of your core is under 28 years old.. but people look at us as our window is closing, they should look at our team and actually see whos who before saying that. we've also graduated most of our 1st rounders in NHL players, a lot cant say that..

Kreider (24)
Stepan (25)
Hayes (23)
Miller (23)
Fast (24)
Etem (23)
Lindberg (24)
Brass(28)
MZA (28)

our d is on the older side but d have longer careers then Fwds.

Mcd (26) Staal (28) Yandle (29) and prospects in Skjei (22) and McIrath (24) are still young and will be impacts IMO as soon as this year..

The problem is you need cost controlled players. If we don't have a pipeline of young guys we will have a problem 2 or 3 years from now when all the mid 20 somethings reach UFA status and we can't afford to keep them. When you don't have a 1st round draft pick for 3 or 4 years in a row you are making things a lot harder having to bank on later picks working out. Fortunately we have been able to mitigate that somewhat by adding guys like Hayes to the roster. But relying on that is a dangerous game. I'm not all doom and gloom about it, but I definitely think it's a serious concern.

 

[SSOne718]

people put WAY to much weight into having the best prospect system.. look at the bottom feeders around the league that have the best prospects.. what have those teams done with those prospects??? even edm whos had 3 1st overalls hasn't correlated that into success yet..

i think we develop well and no need to panic when most of your core is under 28 years old.. but people look at us as our window is closing, they should look at our team and actually see whos who before saying that. we've also graduated most of our 1st rounders in NHL players, a lot cant say that..

Kreider (24)
Stepan (25)
Hayes (23)
Miller (23)
Fast (24)
Etem (23)
Lindberg (24)
Brass(28)
MZA (28)

our d is on the older side but d have longer careers then Fwds.

Mcd (26) Staal (28) Yandle (29) and prospects in Skjei (22) and McIrath (24) are still young and will be impacts IMO as soon as this year..

Good post. I am amazed how people consistently miss this point. When you have prospects you just hope they make the team and can contribute and grow as players. The Rangers have graduated a ridiculous amount of homegrown and traded for homegrown talent. All of whom make up the team now and all of whom have been the reason for the team doing everything but winning it all. While a team is trying to win it all, its their responsibility to try to get over the hump and win it all so giving away assets is necessary and expected. You can't just give away garbage and expect to get a return of NHL talent that can try to help you win now. It's inevitable. WHat this team has been able to do is make those trades but still keep their very young core mostly intact because of their prior prospect depth. The only reason they have less depth is because those prospects are actually on the team. Can always trade for picks to fill the cupboard but when a team graduates so many players, of course their "ranking" will go down....the prospects are actually no longer prospects. Plus they still have a handful of possible excellent NHL prospects still here.

 

[eco's bones]

The thing is and especially with a team that is always season in and season out up against the cap ceiling--that you almost absolutely have to bring a couple kids up to play regular every year. The Rangers way of creating cap space to afford all the higher contracts they have is to 1) decide two or three veterans they're not going to be able to afford to bring back every year and backload those positions with 2) cheap veteran replacements and 3) cheap younger prospects.

It's not like we're in a bad place but we are in a place where we've not had a first round draft pick since Brady Skjei and next year will be 4 years in a row. For our purposes we can go ahead with what we're doing but it's a little like walking a tightrope balancing the now against the future.

A lot of 1st rounders by the way turn into NHL players but not quite the players that their teams expected and usually the case is it's less than they hoped.