Rangers Prospect Poll (Summer 2018): #30 Prospect

[The Crypto Guy]

Ranger's Summer 2018 Prospect Poll

1. Filip Chytil (F) (2017 Draft - 1st round) (66%)
2. Igor Shestyorkin (G) (2014 Draft - 4th round) (59%)
3. Vitali Kravtsov (F) (2018 Draft - 1st round) (52%)
4. Lias Andersson (F) (2017 Draft - 1st round)
5. Libor Hajek (D) (2016 Draft - 2nd round) (44%)
6. Brett Howden (F) (2016 Draft - 1st round) (47%)
7. K'Andre Miller (D) (2018 Draft - 1st round) (55%)
8. Neal Pionk (D) (Undrafted) (56%)
9. Nils Lundkvist (D) (2018 Draft - 1st round) (60%)
10. Ryan Lindgren (D) (2016 Draft - 2nd round) (41%)
11. Alexander Georgiev (G) (Undrafted) (50%)
12. Yegor Rykov (D) (2016 Draft - 5th round)
13. Ty Ronning (F) (2016 Draft - 7th round) (28%)
14. Vinni Lettieri (F) (Undrafted) (28%)
15. Sean Day (D) (2016 Draft - 3rd round) (27%)
16. Ville Meskanen (F) (Undrafted) (32%)
17. Jacob Ragnarsson (D) (2018 Draft - 3rd round) (27%)
18. Morgan Barron (F) (2017 Draft - 6th round) (31%)
19. Patrik Virta (F) (2017 Draft - 7th round) (34%)
20. Michael Lindqvist (F) (Undrafted) (30%)
21. Lauri Pajuniemi (F) (2018 Draft - 5th round) (23%)
22. Cristoval "Boo" Nieves (F) (2012 Draft - 2nd round) (31%)
23. Olof Lindbom (G) (2018 Draft - 2nd Round) (37%)
24. Joey Keane (D) (2018 Draft - 3rd Round) (38%)
25. Adam Huska (G) (2015 Draft - 7th Round) (39%)
26. John Gilmour (D) (2013 Draft - 7th Round) (32%)
27. Tim Gettinger (F) (2016 Draft - 5th round) (39%)
28. Gabriel Fontaine (F) (2016 Draft - 6th round) (42%)
29. Chris Bigras (D) (2013 Draft - 2nd Round) (41%)

*Anthony DeAngelo played 6 too many NHL games is no longer eligible*

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Added: Wall


This is the last ranked round, all remaining players will be added to the "Honorable Mentions" Round.

Bernhardt, Daniel LW/L
Crawley, Brandon D/L
Fogarty, Steven D/L
Halverson, Brandon G/L
Kjellberg, Simon LW/L
Lakatos, Dominik C/L
Leedahl, Dawson LW/L
Nanne, Tyler D-F/R
Nell, Chris G/L
Pedrie, Vince D/L
Reunanen, Tarmo D/L

Click to read more...

 

[The Crypto Guy]

This is the last rank round, all remaining players will be added to the "Honorable Mentions" Round where you will vote for 5 players.

 

[NYR Viper]

O'Gara add Crawley

 

[Beer League Sniper]

O'Gara. The guy has seen NHL action, and wasn't terrible once he got his feet under him. He might even be a serviceable bottom pair option in a new D system. That is more than you will likely be able to say for the rest of the options.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I'm impressed that we reached 30

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm impressed that we reached 30

I honestly think we could reach 35 if we wanted to

 

[Edge]

Going with Gropp.

He definitely has work to do, but this is also a kid who scored an 18 goal pace as a rookie, which would've been second on the Pack after Lettieri. In fact, after a dreadful start, he scored at roughly a 24 goal pace before getting injured.

I'm not ready to dismiss him yet, and 30 seems like a reasonable spot as he heads into what will likely be a season that goes a long way toward establishing his trajectory within the organization.

 

[nyr2k2]

Gropp. Has not developed the toolbox yet but still has good tools. Size, wheels, shot.

 

[Edge]

Gropp. Has not developed the toolbox yet but still has good tools. Size, wheels, shot.

There's always been weird narratives and expectations surrounding Gropp. Some of it are things beyond his control, some of it are statements made on here that are just flat out false, and some of it is his own doing.

But there's some decent potential in there as a support player if he can put things together and I think we tend to sell him a bit short.

 

[darko]

O'Gara add Crawley

O'Gara looked bad in AV's system but I think he could make a decent bottom pairing or 7th dman.

 

[Edge]

O'Gara. The guy has seen NHL action, and wasn't terrible once he got his feet under him. He might even be a serviceable bottom pair option in a new D system. That is more than you will likely be able to say for the rest of the options.

O'Gara, to me, at 25 years old, is what he is --- a 7th defenseman who you don't have to worry about losing to waivers, who isn't going to stink up the joint too badly, but also isn't likely to beat out any emerging prospects when they're ready.

He's exactly the type of guy who gets his 25-30 games on a team that does a deadline fire sale, and that end's up being his most memorable time period.

Personally, I still think there's reasonable enough potential out there with other players that intrigues me more when compiling a prospect list.

 

[Fitzy]

Nico Gross. Once considered a first round prospect and was projected to go in the 3rd round this year.

 

[eco's bones]

O'Gara. Crawley.

 

[NYR Viper]

O'Gara, to me, at 25 years old, is what he is --- a 7th defenseman who you don't have to worry about losing to waivers, who isn't going to stink up the joint too badly, but also isn't likely to beat out any emerging prospects when they're ready.

He's exactly the type of guy who gets his 25-30 games on a team that does a deadline fire sale, and that end's up being his most memorable time period.

Personally, I still think there's reasonable enough potential out there with other players that intrigues me more when compiling a prospect list.

If O'Gara can be a 7th defenseman, similar to what Kampfer has been for this organization for a few years, that's a valuable asset. I agree, he seems to slot in well as a #7 right now.

 

[pblawr]

There's always been weird narratives and expectations surrounding Gropp. Some of it are things beyond his control, some of it are statements made on here that are just flat out false, and some of it is his own doing.

But there's some decent potential in there as a support player if he can put things together and I think we tend to sell him a bit short.

Whenever I've watched Gropp, the thing that stands out to me most is that he rarely competes for loose pucks and contributes virtually nothing away from the puck. But I think he has the size, speed, and shot to play on an NHL scoring line if he could be average without the puck. My guess is that he doesn't make the NHL, but I'd rather take the risk on a guy like him than someone like Nieves or O'Gara, who I can't see playing above an NHL bottom line or pairing.

Still, Sjalin is the pick for me. I'd rather take the risk on an 18 year old than a 21 year old and I think you could argue that Sjalin's performance in a pro league was just as good at 18 as Gropp's was at 21.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

O'Gara, to me, at 25 years old, is what he is --- a 7th defenseman who you don't have to worry about losing to waivers, who isn't going to stink up the joint too badly, but also isn't likely to beat out any emerging prospects when they're ready.

He's exactly the type of guy who gets his 25-30 games on a team that does a deadline fire sale, and that end's up being his most memorable time period.

Personally, I still think there's reasonable enough potential out there with other players that intrigues me more when compiling a prospect list.

It's all about how you value a player's upside versus floor.

To me, the chance of O'Gara playing meaningful minutes for the team, even as a 7th D, puts him ahead of the long-term potential of Gropp.

Some posters rank purely on potential and being "right" about a player in the long run. I tend to rank long-term prospects lower and let them creep up these rankings as they prove more.

To me, Gropp didn't prove much last season. With that being said, he could easily move up if he shows significant improvement this season. I tend to look for progression in a prospect. Gropp's numbers had been progressing in the WHL. Some of that needs to be tempered by the fact that he was getting older and stronger in relation to his competition. If he does significantly better this season, he'll definitely jump up in my rankings.

It's part of the reason why Fogarty completely dropped off the board for me. He was progressing every season in college, and I had him in the low teens on our board. I always felt he played a very pro-style game and that if he could keep making incremental progress, he would be a good fit on the 4th line. But, he utterly stagnated last season. At 25, his development is pretty much done and he's still not a NHLer.

O'Gara, on the other hand, had not looked out of place after a rough couple games adjusting to our moronic man D system. He's never going to be more than a bottom pairing guy, but those guys do still have value. I don't think ranking him 30th is too high.

Edit: And honestly, I think pretty much every player with NHL minutes should probably be ranked a little higher than they are. Pretty sure I have Nieves, Gilmour, and O'Gara higher than this poll is going to indicate. Another player who I think is ranked way too low is Bigras. But that is just my personal opinion.

 

[Edge]

If O'Gara can be a 7th defenseman, similar to what Kampfer has been for this organization for a few years, that's a valuable asset. I agree, he seems to slot in well as a #7 right now.

It's not to say it's not without value --- though I don't think anyone is having a hard time finding 7th defenseman these days.

Having said that, there's a few guys on this list who (warts and all) have some pretty decent upside.

So my approach isn't all that different than it was a few rounds ago when discussing Nieves. I'm still slightly more intrigued by the upside than I am with the reality that someone might be a borderline NHL player, even with the understanding that said upside might not even produce a borderline NHL player.

It's a balancing act for sure, but when it comes to prospect rankings, as opposed to depth chart rankings, I tend to give some consideration to where a player might be a year or two down the road.

 

[Edge]

Whenever I've watched Gropp, the thing that stands out to me most is that he rarely competes for loose pucks and contributes virtually nothing away from the puck. But I think he has the size, speed, and shot to play on an NHL scoring line if he could be average without the puck. My guess is that he doesn't make the NHL, but I'd rather take the risk on a guy like him than someone like Nieves or O'Gara, who I can't see playing above an NHL bottom line or pairing.

Still, Sjalin is the pick for me. I'd rather take the risk on an 18 year old than a 21 year old and I think you could argue that Sjalin's performance in a pro league was just as good at 18 as Gropp's was at 21.

And that, more or less, is how I tend to approach things.

Admittedly, my approach when it comes to prospect rankings does tend to favor ceiling over floor, even if floor is the safer way to go.

 

[NYR Viper]

You know what would make for an interesting discussion? Trying to determine what people are expecting from each prospect/player as the next step in their development. For example, what would Ryan Gropp need to do to improve his current ranking this time next year? Would we all agree that 20-25g and 40-45p would be a solid sophomore season for him? Does it need to be more?

It would be an interesting viewpoint to check back in on towards the end of next season. Guys like Bigras, Gropp, Wall, Huska, Day, etc. Guys who aren't at the top of the list and could either plummet or rise. What would we all consider a positive step for each

 

[Edge]

It's all about how you value a player's upside versus floor.

To me, the chance of O'Gara playing meaningful minutes for the team, even as a 7th D, puts him ahead of the long-term potential of Gropp.

Some posters rank purely on potential and being "right" about a player in the long run. I tend to rank long-term prospects lower and let them creep up these rankings as they prove more.

To me, Gropp didn't prove much last season. With that being said, he could easily move up if he shows significant improvement this season. I tend to look for progression in a prospect. Gropp's numbers had been progressing in the WHL. Some of that needs to be tempered by the fact that he was getting older and stronger in relation to his competition. If he does significantly better this season, he'll definitely jump up in my rankings.

It's part of the reason why Fogarty completely dropped off the board for me. He was progressing every season in college, and I had him in the low teens on our board. I always felt he played a very pro-style game and that if he could keep making incremental progress, he would be a good fit on the 4th line. But, he utterly stagnated last season. At 25, his development is pretty much done and he's still not a NHLer.

O'Gara, on the other hand, had not looked out of place after a rough couple games adjusting to our moronic man D system. He's never going to be more than a bottom pairing guy, but those guys do still have value. I don't think ranking him 30th is too high.

I hear you.

I think I'd value O'Gara a little higher if he didn't look so average at every stop along the way --- college, the AHL, the Bruins organization, etc.

He's a "safe" player in the sense that he doesn't have any crippling weaknesses per say. But he also doesn't have any standout skills or attributes either.

But I'm also not convinced he is indeed even a long-term 7th defenseman at the NHL level. Frankly, prior to him playing in 22 games for the Rangers post-deadline, he really didn't even project as being that for me.

That's why I tend to view him as being more or less what he is at this point --- a placeholder. So for me, he'd probably rank higher if I were putting together a depth chart than if I were taking a stab at prospect rankings.

I just feel like he reminds me of Mike Green for the 2003-2004 Rangers.

 

[nyr2k2]

There's always been weird narratives and expectations surrounding Gropp. Some of it are things beyond his control, some of it are statements made on here that are just flat out false, and some of it is his own doing.

But there's some decent potential in there as a support player if he can put things together and I think we tend to sell him a bit short.

A lot of it is regarding playing with Barzal. There were times where he played away from Barzal and did okay. Then there were other times where he played away from Barzal and was completely invisible. IIRC, Gropp's final WHL season, Barzal got hurt in the winter, and for close to a month Gropp was worthless. Then Barzal came back and they played together primarily, and Gropp's season went from terrible to respectable as he caught fire.

Then there's the fact that a lot of people here wanted guys like Sprong, Rasmus Andersson and Bracco before the draft and definitely at that pick. Now, none of those guys have established themselves as NHL players, but they've all done more to impress than Gropp so far (maybe not Bracco, I think he's pretty meh). But, as we know, when the board latches onto a guy or guys and they're not picked, if the guy we did pick isn't as good the pitchforks come out--as if the team has never made a better pick than what the board wanted, but whatever.

I think the idea persists that he'll only be able to score with a really good center. That might be true. It might not; he could develop a better game away from the puck and turn into something more. I just think that regardless of all those other things, he still has the skills to warrant a spot here. And, he's still young. 22 for the season. He could spend another couple years developing and then make it at 24 and it would be pretty normal.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

You know what would make for an interesting discussion? Trying to determine what people are expecting from each prospect/player as the next step in their development. For example, what would Ryan Gropp need to do to improve his current ranking this time next year? Would we all agree that 20-25g and 40-45p would be a solid sophomore season for him? Does it need to be more?

It would be an interesting viewpoint to check back in on towards the end of next season. Guys like Bigras, Gropp, Wall, Huska, Day, etc. Guys who aren't at the top of the list and could either plummet or rise. What would we all consider a positive step for each

That's about what I would be thinking. Roughly double his numbers from last season and see his +/- get way better. I know +/- is a poor indicator, but him and Fogarty were outliers from everyone else on the pack.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

I think the idea persists that he'll only be able to score with a really good center. That might be true. It might not; he could develop a better game away from the puck and turn into something more. I just think that regardless of all those other things, he still has the skills to warrant a spot here. And, he's still young. 22 for the season. He could spend another couple years developing and then make it at 24 and it would be pretty normal.

There's a place in the league for guys that have a knack for finding open spaces and can get rid of the puck in a tight window like Gropp can. Gaborik made a career out of it. But, you have to be really, really good at it, and you can't be completely useless in the other aspects of the game. Gropp is extremely deficient in the other areas of his game right now. He needs to show significant improvement this year, or he becomes a non-prospect in my mind.

 

[Edge]

You know what would make for an interesting discussion? Trying to determine what people are expecting from each prospect/player as the next step in their development. For example, what would Ryan Gropp need to do to improve his current ranking this time next year? Would we all agree that 20-25g and 40-45p would be a solid sophomore season for him? Does it need to be more?

It would be an interesting viewpoint to check back in on towards the end of next season. Guys like Bigras, Gropp, Wall, Huska, Day, etc. Guys who aren't at the top of the list and could either plummet or rise. What would we all consider a positive step for each

It's also interesting because there's so many variables with guys who are on the bubble.

How we view a prospect is always interesting --- some guys come in with more resistance on these boards than others.

For the guys who face resistance, it's usually holdover resentment from when they were drafted --- either people didn't like the pick, or the timing, preferred other players who were still on the board, or other factors.

Other guys benefit from having one or two devoted and vocal hype men on the boards and people like what they hear, even if they have absolutely no idea if what they're hearing is accurate.

Obviously it goes beyond that, but I think we'd be surprised with how often those two scenarios are at work.

Steering back on topic, I think a 20-25 goal, 35-45 point season would be a success for Gropp. But more importantly, consistency and the overall evolution of his game will be crucial. If he makes it, it will be as a support player. As as someone projected for that type of role, he'll need to focus on his play away from the puck, and put himself in a position to succeed.

IMO, that includes hanging out around the slot and waiting for feeds from a center. I'd argue that Gropp might have some of the organization's best hands when he's in the slot.

The challenge, and something he's admitted to, is getting into the slot when facing bigger, stronger, faster, more aggressive competition. So that's going to require additional strength, a willingness to get pounded a bit, and the durability to make a living doing so.

The clay is there, as it is for Gross and a few other guys still on the list. However, it requires molding.

Personally, at this point on a prospect list, I'll take my chances with a player who has some clay to work with than I would on a more finished, but "meh" player.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Just FYI, there will be no tie breaker round if 2 players are within 3 votes for this round.