Post-Game Talk: Rangers at Blackhawks - December 9

[chosen]

No, but if you're Dan Girardi (for example) and you're constantly getting **** on by the other team's best players, well, then maybe you're not that good?

Which graph is the first graph?

The last one in the group.

 

[kovazub94]

Regarding fasth, I've been fine with him on the lower lines....it's when hes playing in the top 6 that I have a problem.

Nothing to add, nothing to subtract. This is how 95% of this board thinks.

Really like how Hrivik looks out there. I recall he looked good last year too so scoring a couple goals would greatly help his cause against Pirri, Lindberg and Jooris to stick around when injured start coming back. Otherwise, I think he looked better than Weise when he was trying to break into the Rangers line up.

Raanta was phenomenal last night but I would not want him to play 3 games in 4 nights especially after his workload yesterday.

I want to watch Kane / Panarin every day.

 

[trilobyte]

Lots of comments here confirm my thoughts on the Blackhawks, and why I always have loved their exciting brand of hockey. Rangers-Hawks is always fun and exciting. This game felt like playoff brand excitement to me.
Love watching Kane play too, just happy when he gets nada against the Rangers.

 

[silverfish]

The last one in the group.

The value in this is seeing what type of game each player had. On a per 60 scale (debating whether or not to keep that in), it shows the volume of shots for and against each player was on the ice for.

 

[surf]

1. Is Hartman on CHI the son of mini goon Mike Hartmen from years back?

2. What was the name of that cant miss D man Chicago drafted I think 4th over all several years ago was it Barker?

 

[Raspewtin]

1. Is Hartman on CHI the son of mini goon Mike Hartmen from years back?

2. What was the name of that cant miss D man Chicago drafted I think 4th over all several years ago was it Barker?

No and yes

 

[Krams]

1. Is Hartman on CHI the son of mini goon Mike Hartmen from years back?

Probably not if they have different last names

 

[chosen]

The value in this is seeing what type of game each player had. On a per 60 scale (debating whether or not to keep that in), it shows the volume of shots for and against each player was on the ice for.

I understand what the graphic is displaying. I was asking if you derive value from it.

 

[silverfish]

I understand what the graphic is displaying. I was asking if you derive value from it.

Yes. I think it's important to see "how" a player's game went. Was it high event? Was it good D, bad O? Vice versa? If a player finds themselves often in the bottom-left corner, they are bad.

 

[Boruto]

1. Is Hartman on CHI the son of mini goon Mike Hartmen from years back?

2. What was the name of that cant miss D man Chicago drafted I think 4th over all several years ago was it Barker?

I don't see why Ryan Hartman would be related to Mike Hartmen.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I know they won and get the two points but I am very concerned. I watched the game and there is no way that anyone can tell me that Kane did not intend to clip JT Miller. After he hit Miller and Miller went down not one Ranger goes after Kane. You have a chance to get at Kane and you don't. This team continues to send the wrong message to the rest of the league ( do whatever you want to our teammates and we will do nothing) Kane is a very skilled player one of the top 3 or 4, but he is very chippy with his stick, borderline dirty. I am amazed game in and game out how we do not retaliate at all. We will continue to look like a Mash unit on a nightly basis until we start taking an eye for an eye mentality.

That's your takeaway from this game?

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

I know they won and get the two points but I am very concerned. I watched the game and there is no way that anyone can tell me that Kane did not intend to clip JT Miller. After he hit Miller and Miller went down not one Ranger goes after Kane. You have a chance to get at Kane and you don't. This team continues to send the wrong message to the rest of the league ( do whatever you want to our teammates and we will do nothing) Kane is a very skilled player one of the top 3 or 4, but he is very chippy with his stick, borderline dirty. I am amazed game in and game out how we do not retaliate at all. We will continue to look like a Mash unit on a nightly basis until we start taking an eye for an eye mentality.

They won the game. That's a pretty decent message to send, especially with all of the injuries to top players that are missing games right now.

 

[Blueshirtforlife*]

That's your takeaway from this game?

Great win........................but The fact you didn't agree with the previous post is crazy. I could not agree more. Too many liberties are being taken. It goes all the way back to the hit by Phaneuf that ended Sauer's career. You can do whatever you want to the Rangers and no one will retaliate.

 

[aufheben]

You guys realize that all happened because Holden flattened Kane right?

 

[trilobyte]

1. Is Hartman on CHI the son of mini goon Mike Hartmen from years back?

2. What was the name of that cant miss D man Chicago drafted I think 4th over all several years ago was it Barker?

Cam Barker. Yeah, I remember so much expectations for him. Little by little he just faded away. Shows how hit and miss high draft picks can be. BTW, he was #3 overall in 2004. Wow, such a long time ago.

 

[Boruto]

Great win........................but The fact you didn't agree with the previous post is crazy. I could not agree more. Too many liberties are being taken. It goes all the way back to the hit by Phaneuf that ended Sauer's career. You can do whatever you want to the Rangers and no one will retaliate.

But Sauer was tough. We had tough guys back then. 2010-2012 was Sauer's career. We had pests and tough guys and fighters? They didn't stop the disrekpeckcuful hit by Phaneuf did it? So having a tough team doesn't prevent injurious hits and it doesn't prevent teams from "taking liberties"? Could it be that it's just hockey and the league is filled with more skillful players no longer needing to find bad reasons to fight? 3rd and 4th line players used to be players with mediocre skill and had to fight to do something.

Sauer's career was during 2010-2012. We had one of the toughest coaches in the league who called players, coaches, reporters and the league out and tried to start a fight in the hallway. He challenged Brooksie to a fight. We had a grinding hard working tough team. We had NHL premier pest Sean Avery, tough back down from no one Ryan Callahan, pesty Dubinsky.

We had Derek Boogaard, the toughest customer in the NHL in a fight. We had Brandon Prust who fought more than anyone and continued to be a pest and a fighter in Montreal and in Vancouver. We had Stu Bickel, big tough defenseman. We brought in Mike Rupp to fight and be physical.

That didn't prevent the "disrespectful liberty taking" against Sauer. Teams are not taking liberties against us. This is just normal hockey. Teams and players don't fight and **** disturb anymore. To complain that we're "soft" and have no "respect" around the league is dated. It's basically mistaking a Puerto Rican for a Mexican and yelling at them assuming they're an illegal immigrant and stealing jobs because Walmart started using self checkout machines.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

This advanced stats stuff is nuts - top pairings are consistently on against top players. Weaker players are on against weaker Dmen.

Has very little to do with reality.

 

[Irishguy42]

This advanced stats stuff is nuts - top pairings are consistently on against top players. Weaker players are on against weaker Dmen.

Has very little to do with reality.

No one actually pays attention to QoC b/c there isn't much variance and it's useless. Sooooooooooo....

No one in the adv stats community uses it.

 

[silverfish]

This advanced stats stuff is nuts - top pairings are consistently on against top players. Weaker players are on against weaker Dmen.

Has very little to do with reality.

Yeah but like, there are a ton of players who play top competition and don't suck, and there are a ton of players who play bottom competition and still suck.

Obviously qual of competition matters, but it should matter in terms of maybe figuring out who is above their head and who is due for tougher assignments.

If you're constantly being lit up by opposing teams top players, then you shouldn't be playing those players.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

Weren't the Bruins one of the most injured teams when they had Lucic, Marchand & co.? I seem to remember some threads pointing out that they had lost the most man-games while having their "tough as nails" roster. That should be enough of an indicator of how much of a deterrent having these tough guys really is. If someone is out to do damage in the modern NHL, they're going to 1) do whatever they want because 99% of the time the refs miss it, then 2) run/turtle. Anyone who chases will be the one getting ejected or that will get the mountain of penalty minutes more often than not, while the original offender might get a minor or 5m, depending on the weather.

I'm also really curious. What teams are regarded as hard-nosed, take-no-BS teams? Which are the teams that are retaliating against every slight? Which are the teams that "no one messes with"?

 

[silverfish]

No one actually pays attention to QoC b/c there isn't much variance and it's useless. Sooooooooooo....

No one in the adv stats community uses it.

Best metric we have for this right now, I think, is the xGF.QoC metric on Corsica. And you're right, there isn't much variance. The variance is much higher for xGF.QoT, which is why quality of teammates matters a lot more than quality of competition. Intuitively, this makes sense. You play a lot more with Dan Girardi than you do against Crosby.

 

[Boruto]

Toughness talk and advanced stats being called useless. This page has it all.

 

[Machinehead]

This advanced stats stuff is nuts - top pairings are consistently on against top players. Weaker players are on against weaker Dmen.

Has very little to do with reality.

No they're not. 3 out of 4 shifts happen on the fly where matchups aren't set.

Same reason zone starts are useless.

 

[Machinehead]

And even if we're giving quality of completion full credence, what purpose do you serve if you constantly go out and get beat by top competition?

A trained monkey could go out and get outplayed.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Toughness talk and advanced stats being called useless. This page has it all.

HF, where a kid can be a kid!