GDT: R2G4 - Stars @ Avs - The Gang makes a GDT

[Chiarelli]

I'll probably get trashed for saying this but last night's performance was reminiscent of a phenom I noticed when I was coaching youth. Players know when they are beat. When their best isn't gonna be good enough. And they know when the coach has no real answers. So they recognize reality and tend to just play out the rest of the schedule and get the whole thing over and done with.

This wasn't evident in the 90's. But it became evident after 2000. I don't know why. Values? Character? Upbringing? 9/11? Columbine? It happened to me 2 different times during my 2000 - 2017 coaching run.

In between were some championships. But when the ship starts to take on water, and predicated on the character of the leadership, the crew (players) look to abandon ship rather than try to keep it afloat.

And they tend to blame others around them for the conditions.

A certain high visibility and well respected Avs social media commentator on this Board knows what I am describing here. He was one of the few good guys I had left...... He hung in there until the end. But surely had his doubts as well.....

had to be columbine

 

[frog]

Stayed up till 930 at night to watch these games... The biggest turning point was soft response to toews getting destroyed, seems like that killed the momentum, and deflated the team... I Havent seen the team play with anger or emotion since that hit... Landeskog would have made sure the team got fired up after that but I this team is much softer and fiery without him.. Good on Benn to get his team going sucks it happened to us

 

[Grigowski]

I'll probably get trashed for saying this but last night's performance was reminiscent of a phenom I noticed when I was coaching youth. Players know when they are beat. When their best isn't gonna be good enough. And they know when the coach has no real answers. So they recognize reality and tend to just play out the rest of the schedule and get the whole thing over and done with.

This wasn't evident in the 90's. But it became evident after 2000. I don't know why. Values? Character? Upbringing? 9/11? Columbine? It happened to me 2 different times during my 2000 - 2017 coaching run.

In between were some championships. But when the ship starts to take on water, and predicated on the character of the leadership, the crew (players) look to abandon ship rather than try to keep it afloat.

And they tend to blame others around them for the conditions.

A certain high visibility and well respected Avs social media commentator on this Board knows what I am describing here. He was one of the few good guys I had left...... He hung in there until the end. But surely had his doubts as well.....

Agree. A very good take. Especially the bold part. Thats why a change on the core is imho inevitable.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Oh I agree 100% I've seen this and experienced this myself as a player. It's hard not to want to jump ship.

I'm not surprised at all at the teams performance in this game. In fact I would wager they knew this was coming at some point t during the last few games or so

Just look at how Mack and Mikko have played

They will probably still lose but I marvel at the response of the Carolina Hurricanes that past 2 games vs the NYR. That's what we were expecting here. RBD and the Canes are showing the League how its done.

(Hell, I don't even like the franchise. But they aren't mailing it in are they?)

had to be columbine

Yeah.......everything is columbine's ....... and trumps fault. LOL

Thanks for the humor.... it helps!

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

Yep. This place is about as toxic as could be expected. Glad to see we should be trading everyone.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Yep. This place is about as toxic as could be expected. Glad to see we should be trading everyone.

Drouin looked pretty good out there last night........ So did Girard.

Liked most of the 3rd and 4th line guys too. MIttlestadt scored. No one else did however.

 

[The Shermanator]

Hungover and unhappy. What a disgrace of a night. Maybe the single worst performance this core has put up ever? Top 3 in Avalanche history?

You just can’t come back for getting beaten like that with all the off ice shit too. If they win tomorrow maybe I’ll crawl back and watch some more, but I drove 17 hours in 38 to watch this team on Saturday… and wore my Nuke jersey. I’m embarrassed for myself to have made the effort. f***.

Damn Smiley, that blows. Sports teams should really just refund their fans in cases like this.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Yep. This place is about as toxic as could be expected. Glad to see we should be trading everyone.

Not everybody, just Moose, and we've talked that into the ice months ago.

 

[nammerus]

Between Landy, Nuke, and Toews they know they aren't going to be able to win even this round let alone 2 more after. Why destroy your body for nothing? I don't blame the guys one bit they were completely deflated after the news. They are human too.

What a f***ing pathetic response. Don’t try cause you probably won’t win? Teams almost never come back down 0-3 in a series, but you don’t see the Carolina players mope and cry or give-up just because they might not win. They still are giving it their all. Can’t say the same for this pathetic core.

 

[ASmileyFace]

Yep. This place is about as toxic as could be expected. Glad to see we should be trading everyone.

I mean what did you expect. That was about as bad as it gets. A whole season... shit two seasons if you count last year's loss to Seattle too, of expectations and this team found rock bottom yesterday. There was some light in how some of the role guys played, and George was fantastic early. But when your core has that kind of performance in a "must win" ya gotta expect a bit of a kneejerk reaction.

We all knew this was going to happen as well. I could feel it in my bones as soon as I saw the news. My girlfriend was worried that a friend had died or something, because I was just silently staring at my computer with no expression for an hour leading up to the game. We all knew the ship was going down as @littletonhockeycoach said... and the response from this core was exactly as expected.

Damn Smiley, that blows. Sports teams should really just refund their fans in cases like this.

Lol I wish I could send them my expenses for the drive, but it was fun despite everything. Got to hang with my pops, eat a few tacos, listened to a book on tape... and up until the third period of game 3 I was having fun. At least I did not fly from Europe like the Eurolance guys... they have a legit case for refund for emotional trauma.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

Drouin looked pretty good out there last night........ So did Girard.

Liked most of the 3rd and 4th line guys too. MIttlestadt scored. No one else did however.

There are usually positives that can be taken even if everyone is slitting their wrists in the corner.

The Avs were disjointed and out of sync again. Two games in a row of uncharacteristic play.

But as you say there are some positives to take from these playoffs like George stepped up after adversity and did his job. He just got no help.

The narrative of Girard being too small for playoff hockey is dead, he's been f***ing good and laying licks each game.

Manson came to life as we hoped. As did Colton and to a lesser degree Wood. Kiviranta looked pretty good. First round Makar was a joy as was first round Lehky, and Val. MacKinnon was overall ok but disappointing from the high expectations.

It's not over yet. I dont think they have much of a shot of getting over this deficit. But I'll watch to the final whistle regardless

 

[The Abusement Park]

Don't post often here anymore was really hoping for deep playoffs run, but this team needs a real 2nd line center or else 2nd round is all you will get

Shut the f*** up man.

 

[Alienblood]

They will probably still lose but I marvel at the response of the Carolina Hurricanes that past 2 games vs the NYR. That's what we were expecting here. RBD and the Canes are showing the League how its done.

(Hell, I don't even like the franchise. But they aren't mailing it in are they?)


Yeah.......everything is columbine's ....... and trumps fault. LOL

Thanks for the humor.... it helps!

I actually expect the Canes to win. I even did when they were down 3 -0 They have been the better team every game

 

[henchman21]

The narrative of Girard being too small for playoff hockey is dead, he's been f***ing good and laying licks each game.

You know this won't die around here, right? You're not wrong in your assessment, but it will still be stated over and over and over around here.

 

[chet1926]

I'll probably get trashed for saying this but last night's performance was reminiscent of a phenom I noticed when I was coaching youth. Players know when they are beat. When their best isn't gonna be good enough. And they know when the coach has no real answers. So they recognize reality and tend to just play out the rest of the schedule and get the whole thing over and done with.

This wasn't evident in the 90's. But it became evident after 2000. I don't know why. Values? Character? Upbringing? 9/11? Columbine? It happened to me 2 different times during my 2000 - 2017 coaching run.

In between were some championships. But when the ship starts to take on water, and predicated on the character of the leadership, the crew (players) look to abandon ship rather than try to keep it afloat.

And they tend to blame others around them for the conditions.

A certain high visibility and well respected Avs social media commentator on this Board knows what I am describing here. He was one of the few good guys I had left...... He hung in there until the end. But surely had his doubts as well.....

You shouldn't get trashed, because it's pretty spot on. The team was already on verge on quitting and giving up and the Nuke news, coupled with Toews not being available took it right to that level of we have no chance in their heads and the guys acted like it.

It's been a tough two seasons in terms of stability and leadership and it finally came to complete breaking point last night. You can only sustain so much.

No Landy for 2 full years, you lost another leader in EJ, I think not bringing back Kadri was a big blow to guys who seemed to really like him. Then throw in the countless injuries really no one has been reliably in the lineup, the Nuke stuff, the Girard stuff to a lesser extent.

There is only so many times you can say put your head down and keep grinding. Their will to keep grinding broke last night. I really don't know if it's salvageable without some reasonable changes.

Yep. This place is about as toxic as could be expected. Glad to see we should be trading everyone.

It's not a trade everybody situation, but the team absolutely broke and quit last night. It was the worst game this core has ever played at the absolute worst time. Some changes are for sure needed.

 

[Ncit3]

I do, this supposed cup favorite team looks unmotivated, lazy, and is playing with such carelessness that it’s infuriating, special teams looks like garbage, and the team collapsed the second they faced adversity that they couldn’t immediately overcome. Add in that the Avs have now been cup favorites for like 5 years and Bednar has failed to get them passed the 2nd round all but once and has multiple losses to Deboer, and I completely understand why people are f***n pissed.

Are people actually saying that it's Bednar's job to make sure all these guys are locked in, motivated, and ready to go in an NHL playoff game. Are these guys 14? Are they not being paid millions of dollars to play this game? Are they not able to motivate themselves?

I thought a coaches job was to implement a system. We know the system works. We have a cup title in the last couple years. Are we not sure that the players are complacent, lazy, and without motivation themselves?

You're talking like Bednar is a taskmaster, not a coach.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Words can't describe how disappointing the entire roster and coaching staff have been this round.

It's one thing to get overwhelmed by a better team. But to not even compete and to go down without a fight is pathetic.

From the time we knew the Byram trade was finally going to happen until that OT win vs Dallas I was actually hopeful this team could do some damage in the playoffs and make a run.

Everyone talked about lack of depth this series. And yes the bottom of Dallas roster out played the bottom of the Avs roster.

But when you've got 3 guys making over 9 million and are built to win with 3 star players those 3 need to show up.

Rantanen is taking a lot of flack but for the past 10 games if anyone was watching they wouldn't think MacKinnon is one of the best players in the world. Makar took over against Winnipeg but he's had no interest in playing defense in about a year now.

Last year a lot of the blame is on Cmac for not putting together a roster that could win.

This year it's on the guys for not trying to win.

 

[chet1926]

Are people actually saying that it's Bednar's job to make sure all these guys are locked in, motivated, and ready to go in an NHL playoff game. Are these guys 14? Are they not being paid millions of dollars to play this game? Are they not able to motivate themselves?

I thought a coaches job was to implement a system. We know the system works. We have a cup title in the last couple years. Are we not sure that the players are complacent, lazy, and without motivation themselves?

You're talking like Bednar is a taskmaster, not a coach.

I agree with the motivation aspect. Pro level coaches shouldn't have to get grown men to be motivated to play, they should have enough personal/professional pride to be ready to go.

However I do feel it is the coaches job to have a game plan that the guys believe give them a high likelihood of success. And to make adjustments to that plan if the original plan is not working.

If you aren't making changes to a failing plan, the guys aren't going to respond. It's square peg into round hole issue. The players will only keep trying so much if you aren't adjusting.

This is where I feel Bednar has completely shit the bed.

 

[wayninja]

You know this won't die around here, right? You're not wrong in your assessment, but it will still be stated over and over and over around here.

 

[Iceberg]

View attachment 870551

To late, another wasted year.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Lehkonen, G, Wood, Kiviranta, Parise are guys that brought it and played at or above expectations.

Colton is a dummy and can't play C in this system but the compete was there.

Cogs still gives his best but the years are catching up to him. Really struggled out there.

Manson showed all the reasons why you need a Manson type in the playoffs. But not Manson. At his aging curve you need him on the third pairing or to be the clear #4. And be paid like that. Way too many mistakes and dumb penalties.

Trenin and Duhaime couldn't establish much of a forecheck or physicality against Dallas. Is that on Bednar for not wanting them to play that way? Regardless they're both gone in the summer and not the reason this series was lost.

Coaching is often described as a chess match. But this was like an older brother patiently explaining how the pawns move while little bro Bednar eats crayons and tries to remember not to wet himself.

 

[BaconNater]

Why is Jared getting the blame? Should he meet with the top dogs and say hey guys don't stink it up?

 

[Chiarelli]

They will probably still lose but I marvel at the response of the Carolina Hurricanes that past 2 games vs the NYR. That's what we were expecting here. RBD and the Canes are showing the League how its done.

(Hell, I don't even like the franchise. But they aren't mailing it in are they?)


Yeah.......everything is columbine's ....... and trumps fault. LOL

Thanks for the humor.... it helps!

just to be clear I wasn't serious

What a f***ing pathetic response. Don’t try cause you probably won’t win? Teams almost never come back down 0-3 in a series, but you don’t see the Carolina players mope and cry or give-up just because they might not win. They still are giving it their all. Can’t say the same for this pathetic core.

do you show up for work every day of the year 100% productivity completely independent of other factors going on in life? If so kudos to you.

 

[nammerus]

just to be clear I wasn't serious


do you show up for work every day of the year 100% productivity completely independent of other factors going on in life? If so kudos to you.

If I was getting paid 10 million dollars a year and had any semblance of personal and professional pride, I sure as hell would be giving it my all.

 

[Chiarelli]

If I was getting paid 10 million dollars a year and had any semblance of personal and professional pride, I sure as hell would be giving it my all.

money really doesn't change anything about a persons character or work ethic. In fact I'd argue it lessons these things as you are basically set in life once you have money.