Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Zombotron, Jan 6, 2019.
Having an opinion you don't like is not bias.
I don’t disagree with any of that and it mirrors my thoughts pretty well. I think your position tends to be a bit inconsistent at times though and I find it hard to tell what you truly believe.
How have I been inconsistent?
A player that’s getting “ventilated” at the NCAA level, who didn’t attend the combine because he was scared everyone would find out he was 5’8”, and who struggled to score against his peer group at the WJC (which is a silly criticism in itself) isn’t consistent with an outstanding prospect IMO.
Damn! If only he was an inch bigger!
He’s the best skating prospect on the planet and as good a prospect as you’ll ever see at getting the puck from his own zone to the opposition blueline.
He’s also tremendously one-dimensional at this point and incredibly tiny for his position. Has no shot and will struggle badly defensively initially.
I suspect that (like Barrie/Krug) he will plateau as a 2nd pairing guy who needs to be sheltered a bit at ES and will pile up points on the PP.
I don’t think the 5’8. I do think he’s 5’9.
Do you think that, like Barrie/Krug he probably won't play until he's 21-22?
They’re gonna play him no matter what. My gut feel is that a year in the AHL might be best but that’s a moot point.
You’ll probably see something a bit like Sergachev’s year last year with low ES minutes, 80% o-zone starts, and hope he gets 20 points on the PP and doesn’t bleed too many goals.
I'm thinking they try him with Tanev right off the bat to see if he can conver for Hughes defensively, then move him down in the ES pecking order if he still struggles badly.
Much like Pettersson, Hughes is a supremely intelligent player. This is such an important trait in terms of his adjustment to the NHL and I’m so happy we finally have a GM capable of connecting with these high IQ athletes. Hughes is a player that will look even better playing with actual NHL-level talent. Our PP is going to be formidable in the coming years as he fills its biggest need. His defensive skill is actually underrated, and like Stecher, he’ll learn tricks to defending larger players. Player is simply too much of a phenom to fail, and his skills are designed for an evolving game. To call him one-dimensional is laughable. Player can pass and skate at an elite level, and has a bit of a chippy streak to boot. Heck he might even help it evolve himself in his prime.
Don’t let these Dobson>Hughes opinions delude you; there will be bumps in the road, but Hughes’ impact on this team will be almost instantaneously positive.
All you have to do is zoom the picture and scroll to the btm of your screen to create a horizontal line that puts Perunavich in the exact height as Hughes.
Anyways i could care less about an inch even though my wife might get more worked up about it. Bottom line is can he be effective enough to play 5v5 for 20 minutes a night.......we"ll see.
I will say this...i agree with MS somewhat, I went to most of his games here live (U20s) and i know it was just a small sample but if he plays like he did he's gonna be a turnover machine with containment issues. Like most players out of junior or College he needs to be going 100% every shift and he cant keep reversing the flow of the game as the last man back and casualy turn on his skating and expect to not get stripped by NHLers
Thats all fine and dandy.
I would just shelter him. Gift him soft offensive minutes and PP time and he can't be any worse than Pouliot.
Hypothetical player we can manipulate his size.... Same player in all cases. Defensemen. World Class skater. Great vision and stick skills. Hasn't developed his commitment to defending just yet. Shows a real swagger and also a desire to be the best.
1)- 6' 2" 210 lbs
2) 6' 0" 192 lbs
3) 5' 10" 175 ils
4) 5' 8" 160 lbs
Rank the order in which you prefer this player to be. And then tell us why you would rank them in this order.
Here is my order:
1) >> 2) >>>>>>>> 3)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4)
1) Could be an all situation beast driving play and changing the franchise for 15 years. Runs power play, plays 30 min on nights where it really matters, seems like the game surrounds him and he is IT. Plays against the other teams best, players (regardless of their size or speed). Changes results 2) Could be all situations and change the franchise too. An offensive beast and potential to develop first pair defending potential. Size and strength not a weakness but not a strength either. Will win more bottles because of speed, stick, IQ and will, but will lose some against similar forward opponents 3) Could be a team driving, game changing offensive player who will play loads of minutes in certain situations but who can not defend against some lines and some types of players, both in regular season and in playoff series. As an offensive allstar, he will be a target of every predatory hit and forecheck, not matter how good he is at escaping pressure. Needs someone to "protect him" from all the nonsense after whistles, in the trenches etc.. 4) Would have to be an absolute outlier to be anything but an offensive situational D. There are a few talented ones, but the fact you could name all of them tells you how rare it is. These players need to be protected due to a lack of strength and ability to physically win battles or protect space.
Within reason, you could argue some level of rhetoric around the description, but the basic framework is real, without doubt, IMO.
Inches and lbs matter! Is their a difference between 5'9 and 5'10. Yes! Not much of one, because both players will need help to succeed. But it is a difference- it is just a matter of degree.
QH is going to be an interesting one to watch, How much of an outlier will he become? How long will it take him to adapt. He is so talented but he will have to change his game too much to be a difference maker or are his skills so special that the team will have to adapt to his unique outlier skill set. Regardless, his size and strength are and will (IMO) hold him back from being a first pair defending D pair. His line usage at his size will almost certainly have to be a consideration for his teams and coaches. And for the record, I believe they are right now with Michigan.... Love his offensive tools, but the young man has a very long way to go to defend real players. Let's see if he learns as quickly as the EP's of the world.
Quinn’s defensive issues are overblown imo. He’s not gonna crank guys in the corner and come out with the puck, but he wins more battles than I expected using his stick and a few quick strides to create separation. Hes does also get outmuscled wide at times, but not as much as you think, he’s shifty with his stick. He’s definitely going to have more trouble against NHL players though, they’re much stronger and faster.
Another major area of adjustment will be the speed. Quinn’s incredibly gifted as a skater but the difference between him and the next guy will be much narrower in the NHL. That strikes me as something he’ll need to adapt to.
What you hadn't accounted for is here he isn't playing with mid level college players for one second he can be eased along given pp time as he learns and no one should expect he will be perfect and give 20 mins a night jumping out of NCAA , his talent is far above most as far as skating and smarts I think he will adjust very well to NHL give him a full year to get there with travel amount of games those parts may be his biggest learning curve.
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He'll definitely need to be sheltered 5v5. But that's not really a bad thing unless he doesn't show improvement in his efficiency and in limiting turnovers.
I try not to worry about it - I'm mostly excited to watch this kid be creative out there, and am willing to live with the ugly moments of which I'm sure there will be plenty.
Damn this might be our Brian Collangelo moment.
Ive watched more of his games in college this year.
While his skating is all-world, his decision making and lack of competition bugs me.
I truly believe size is not the main problem with this player. Its his ability to make the right decisions with the puck and not give up on plays.
When I see comparisons to Krug. I know people don't pay close enough attention. Aside from being small they play very different games.
Hughes ability to evade the forecheck and skate the puck up the ice is on a whole different level to Krug. Krug shot and ability to qb a pp is imo better than Hughes quite significantly.
2 issues stopping Hughes from being an elite player in the league.
1. Is his overconfidence in his ability. This is why we see thesse awful turnovers especially when he's the last man back. And I find he overplays the puck to the point when he distributes the puck to his linemate, they aren't even in good spots to receive it.
2. And him giving up on plays. Not sure if he's just bored with the competition in college, but seen him lose interest to even take his man who is right next to him.
But he has the potential to be a defenseman who not only produces points but changes the entire teams transition game.
Pretty obvious to me that Hughes is a fiery competitor who hates to lose. And unfortunately for him, Michigan has done a lot more 'losing' this year than a lot of people expected. Now with their best center Josh Norris out for the season, they're long-shots to get anywhere near the Frozen Four.
So at this point he's trying to do too much, and it's hurting his overall game. He needs to leave NCAA behind and test his skills in the NHL. My prediction, he'll play a much more structured game with the Canucks and they'll better utilize his skill-set. He'll rush the puck when he can, and transition it when he can't.
He's a pure offensive d-man and the Canucks don't have anyone remotely close to him.
My biggest fears are that Green will have him on a leash and limit his creative potential. As a rookie, Green might also give him a 6th d minutes probably under 14 minutes a game and not give him enough opportunities to succeed.
Green is the last coach that will coach creativity out of a player, he even said on record he doesn't want to overcoach Pettersson because it would just ruin him.
To follow up on this:
Here is an excerpt from both sites on regarding their data sources:
I have also emailed both about Quinn Hughes' height marker.
When I get a response, I will post it here.
Hockeydb is normally godawful for measurements.
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