Question from a casual: player development
- Thread starter PCSPounder
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BalticWarrior
Registered User
Most KHL teams have 2 affiliates. In the VHL and the MHL i.e.
VHL is comparable to the AHL. MHL is a junior league. The development system is quite different in Russia. Teams own hockey schools which kids can join at a very young age. From that schools they can get directly to the MHL team at the right age. So it's really home grown talent in Russia. Callups from the MHL are common practice. The KHL also has a rule now that allows teams to add U20 players to the original roster above normal limitations. Every team uses the rule differently though. Some would only call up the kids to ride the pine the whole 60 minutes. VHL callups are rare, they happen mostly due to injuries to major team players. But there is more and more developing the kids in the VHL. For example Prokhorkin who returned to CSKA after the contract dispute between the NHL and the KHL was sent to CSKA VHL affiliate THK Tver (and was doing well there as much as I heard of).
vorky
@vorkywh24
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yes, call ups from VHL to KHL are rare, Ak Bars and Salavat Yulaev tries to use it.
More frequent are call ups from MHL to VHL, of course not all clubs are the same.
Atlant MO does not have VHL affiliatte what is sad, because they have great MHL team this season. The same like CSKA last season. A few guys should play VHL not MHL. Khimik Voskresensk should be VHL farm of Atlant.
More frequent are call ups from MHL to VHL, of course not all clubs are the same.
Atlant MO does not have VHL affiliatte what is sad, because they have great MHL team this season. The same like CSKA last season. A few guys should play VHL not MHL. Khimik Voskresensk should be VHL farm of Atlant.
PCSPounder
Stadium Groupie
So more like Europe/football (except no promotion and relegation, it appears) and not so much like NHL. However, VHL teams are in separate cities. Am I getting this right?
vorky
@vorkywh24
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in 99% yes. These VHL clubs are separate one, located in separate cities, mostly in region. Lets say, Salavat Yulaev Ufa has VHL affiliate in Neftekhamsk, both cities are located in Bashkiria. The same with Ak Bars Kazan and Neftyanik Almetevsk (VHL) - both in Tatarstan.
Vityaz Chekhov has its farm in Krasnodar, what is relatively far. You can see affiliate clubs in upper tool bar at KHL website. IIRC Neftekhimik changed its farm team during season, it is not Dizel Penza anymore.
Back to 99%
Dynamo Moscow has farm team called Dynamo Balashika, logo is the same but VHL plays in city of Balshika. There was a merge of 2 KHL clubs - Dynamo Moscow and MVD Balashika a few seasons ago. Seems that both clubs has the same ownership.. dont know.
Lokomotiv Yaroslavl has its farm team which has the same name, playing at the same arena and having the same owner. You know about Lokomotiv air crash... Lokomotiv played VHL last season instead of KHL. And ownership decided to go on playing VHL this season (and future). It is good for developing kids.
VMF Petersburg - russian navy - is a farm club of SKA Petersburg. They started this season in Petersburg, but moved to small city of Kondopoga
There is a new small ice rink (cca 1-2000). I dont know if VHL has the same owner as SKA,but the same people/management work in both clubs.
Chelmet Chelyabinsk is farm team of Traktor Chelyabinsk. Both club are located in city of Chelyabinsk, not using the same arena. Ownership of Chelmet changed last summer, therefore name Chelmet instead of Mechel. Company Mechel is not club´s sponsor anymore.
Yunost Minsk is a newcomer of VHL, they played belarussian league before. Yunost is farm team of Dinamo Minsk. Using different arena, Yunost will play in new arena next season as I know.
There are KHL clubs which dont have VHL affiliate. Russian KHL clubs - f.e. Amur, Atlant. And non-russian KHL clubs (Dinamo Riga, Donbass, Lev Prague, Slovan, Barys). They have affiliate club in national championship. I can say about Lev and Slovan which structure I know very well. Slovan has farm team (in KHL terms) in Skalica, slovak extraleague. Both clubs have different owners (Ziggy Palffy should be co-owner of HK 36 Skalica?) and good relationship for many years. Lev and Sparta Prague have the same ownership, but dont cooperate in KHL terms. Sparta, playing czech extraleague, is not farm team of Lev acc. to KHL terms. There is exchange of players, but it is not based on call-ups, but on loans. Just legal detail. I think this situation will be changed for next season and Sparta will cooperate with Lev as its farm team acc. to KHL term.
Of course, we dont know what will happen. Maybe Sparta will play KHL
vorky
@vorkywh24
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Maybe Avangard Omsk Region will have its VHL team as Lokomotiv has.
http://mhl.khl.ru/news/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=279051
http://mhl.khl.ru/news/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=279051
Regarding the KHL/VHL system it's pretty much exactly like in the NHL/AHL. VHL teams are in different cities and the VHL is it's own league. Of course the VHL affiliates are often close to the KHL teams' cities geographically for obvious reasons, but it's not always the case.
The MHL system on the other hand is like the european football system with youth development for the big team in it's own school.
It can also work as for Valeri Nichushkin who has played in all 3 league during the season. He began the season in MHL (Belie Medvedi Chelyabinsk) then moved up to VHL (Chelmet Chelyabinsk) and now he is playing in KHL (Traktor Chelyabinsk)
Latgale_fan
Registered User
For Dinamo Rīga the structure at the moment is more complicated. There is no youth system under Dinamo Rīga as the club has ony recently been founded. At the moment there are Dinamo teams in the youngest ages in Riga but as per teenagers generally Dinamo Rīga youth is ''SK Riga" guys (Sports Club Riga) who, with several teams, and similar jerseys to Dinamo ones play in Saint Petersburg and Latvian championships.
In Latvian local league there are two teams under Dinamo Rīga's umbrella:
SK Riga 17 (U17 team, plays in Saint Petersburg championship and Latvian league)
it is a feeder to:
Juniors Rīga (plays in Latvian league and MHL B, which is MHLs second division similar to 10 or so leagues under Canadian CHL)
and in turn then it feeds players to:
HK Rīga (MHL)
After that the road gets murky. You can, of course, go straight to Dinamo Rīga if you are that good. If you are not, that there is a sort of farm club agreement concluded with Liepājas Metalurgs in Belarus Open League that acts as a farm club. But it also does not end there as there is also an agreement of cooperation between Dinamo Rīga and Finnish Mestis team Jokipojat where two Latvians from Dinamo Rīga system played this year, Vitālijs Pavlovs and Mārtiņš Jakovļevs. Though such agreement was made when Rautakallio still was at the helm, so no idea what happens next year. There were some crazy talks last year about an Estonian club in Mestis which some wanted to see as a farm club to Riga Dinamo too, but nothing has come out of that plan.
IMHO Riga should have its own farm club either in VHL or BOL... As Liepāja's own talents are growing up and it creates problems in that city that because of Dinamo Rīgas wonderboys local talent is stuck in Latvian league....
In Latvian local league there are two teams under Dinamo Rīga's umbrella:
SK Riga 17 (U17 team, plays in Saint Petersburg championship and Latvian league)
it is a feeder to:
Juniors Rīga (plays in Latvian league and MHL B, which is MHLs second division similar to 10 or so leagues under Canadian CHL)
and in turn then it feeds players to:
HK Rīga (MHL)
After that the road gets murky. You can, of course, go straight to Dinamo Rīga if you are that good. If you are not, that there is a sort of farm club agreement concluded with Liepājas Metalurgs in Belarus Open League that acts as a farm club. But it also does not end there as there is also an agreement of cooperation between Dinamo Rīga and Finnish Mestis team Jokipojat where two Latvians from Dinamo Rīga system played this year, Vitālijs Pavlovs and Mārtiņš Jakovļevs. Though such agreement was made when Rautakallio still was at the helm, so no idea what happens next year. There were some crazy talks last year about an Estonian club in Mestis which some wanted to see as a farm club to Riga Dinamo too, but nothing has come out of that plan.
IMHO Riga should have its own farm club either in VHL or BOL... As Liepāja's own talents are growing up and it creates problems in that city that because of Dinamo Rīgas wonderboys local talent is stuck in Latvian league....
Latgale_fan
Registered User
Actually at the moment in Latvia it is probably possible to play in 6 leagues during the season if you're in Dinamo system (KHL, BOL, MHL, MHLB, Latvian, Mestis), though nobody has tried that
Upītis last year played 9 games in KHL, 20 games in Liepāja, Belarus league, 22 games in MHL and 2 games in Latvian league play-offs for Juniors Rīga
vorky
@vorkywh24
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Similar with Donbass Donetsk. Club´s juniors-reserve team plays ukrainian league, roster Club´s academy has eldest guys, who were born 1998 (U15??), they play Moscow championship and now are at 9th place. Donbass plans to join MHL in future.
Do you have table/stats of Saint Petersburg championship U17?
cska78
Registered User
cska78
Registered User
Jussi
Registered User
Mestis clubs are heavily against that plan now as well as the proposed Korean team.
BalticWarrior
Registered User
Intterestingly 97 riga team is doing better than 96 one,although 96 is believed to be one of the strongest years for Latvia in recent years.
vorky
@vorkywh24
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cska78
Registered User
well, aren't some 96's playing in the MHL-B? Possible that 97's in st petersburgh devision aren't good at all...
Latgale_fan
Registered User
There are a lot of posibilities but if we look at our Latvian U17 team for EYOF that will soon start, only 2 defensemen and 4 forwards are from Riga 96, so there's also a possibility that overall Latvia 96 group might be better than 1997 but actually more talents are outside Riga 96, as opposed to 97 (or other things you mention). Or it might be so that 1997 are actually better and 1996 are overrated just because they won some Canadian Selects team some time ago.
People like to think that Riga 96 is some kind of a base club for the NT U17 but it isn't like that and probably won't be... I think the biggest problem for SK Riga 96 is in defense and we can see that only 2 defensemen have been chosen to the NT from this team.
As for MHL B there are currently no 1996 year olds playing. There are guys that could potentially play there but coaches are probably reluctant and prefer giving guys more ice time and oppotunity to master the skills in lower level than make them 4th line players in MHL or MHL B. And of course, the age old problem that our top 1996 talent is abroad along with some others... So there's no real choice. People now are asking why Dinamo Rīga does not introduce real youngsters (U20) in the team but who to introduce there?? Bukarts who's barely 17 years old and still has room to develop in MHL? If we had Girgensons (though now he's CSKA property), Bļugers, Lipsbergs, or maybe Jevpalovs, even Kļaviņš who's already played in Elitserien then these talents would be introduced, but we have what we have...
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vorky
@vorkywh24
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THIS!!! Rihards was born 31.12.1995, so he is so young, what about his body? He is not Nichuskin whos body is bigger... you know what I mean.
And yes, best talent left to abroad, so Dinamo have no kids to introduce to KHL this season. Maybe Lipsbergs, or Jevpalovs would get chance this season, when Dinamo is not good... they left. Dont know when Kļaviņš etc left, but are similar cases. KHL is not developing league, only real talent gets ice time at 17. Look at stats of Tarasenko, Kutznetsov at this age, and they were/are big talents. Tarasenko has been showing it in NHL.
BalticWarrior
Registered User
If rihards had size like Girgensons,i have no doubts hed be playing in KHL right now and thats what worries me his small size increases his chance to bust.
vorky
@vorkywh24
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BalticWarrior
Registered User
We will see, Anisin is similar case
Well Rihards is not THAT small hes 179 against anisins 164. And if Rihards want a career in NHL he needs to grow both muscle and in size to atleast 183 cm.
Latgale_fan
Registered User
Sure, if we just look at Nichushkin (1995), currently nr.2 in NHL 2013 draft predictions by ISS, he's a beast with his 1.94 height. Before moving to VHL (and later KHL) he played 9 games in MHL and got 8 points (4+4), we do not know if he would score even more and would stay at about this level per game but still better than Bukarts and with the size he's got, he can already play against men. If Bukarts stays in Dinamo Rīga system he could play next year, he's 1.77 and 83 kg at the moment so hopefully he grows a few centimeters too. If you look at Nichushkin, he's already scored 4 goals in KHL and looks like next Tarasenko, Malkin etc. He just dominates the small KHL defensemen that can't do anything about his size and long hands. He just pushes them away and goes towards the net like a tank
. At the moment he's heading for great career but with Bukarts there are still a lot of questions though he's also 9 months younger than big Nichushkin so still has that advantige for development Ad
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