Question about Neal vs Hornqvist+Spaling trade

[Will Hunting]

OK, let´s play this a bit We don´t have a hindsight yet to start revisiting this trade but that´s not even my point. When JR was making that trade, he had zero hindsight. Now we have at least a small idea of what was his idea behind this trade.

The question is simple: IF YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO TAKE THAT TRADE BACK NOW, WOULD YOU DO IT? Yes or No ?! Question´s about this one specific trade, "Neal for Hornqvist & Spaling". Not an additional BS about pick going back to PIT instead of Spaling, because that was probably never offered.

JR had to decide about this particular trade. Are you OK with his decision NOW?

Of course, thing may play out different ways, but noone can predict those. Not even GMs and they have to take those risks sometimes.

I´m saying that I wouldn´t take that trade back if I had a chance to do it now. I like the idea, even though I don´t know what the final result of this campaign will be.

Click to read more...

 

[wgknestrick]

No-brainer take back to me.

Neal is still a much better player (and harder to replace) than Horns. Spaling is meh. We will see though.

 

[Malkin112*]

Neal easily.

 

[Will Hunting]

The purpose of this thread is to be fair to JR. There is no point of bashing him after one year, when everyone already knows how the things are playing out. Let´s answer this question now, when we somehow know his idea but don´t know the final result yet.

 

[Penguins23]

I really liked Hornqvist's game last night and he's a right handed shot. I'm fine with it so far. He seems to be much more mature. (For ex: Didn't slash or elbow anyone last night)


Meanwhile in Nashville.


James Neal: 2 Minutes for Slashing

 

[ThatGuy]

I really liked Hornqvist's game last night and he's a right handed shot. I'm fine with it so far. He seems to be much more mature. (For ex: Didn't slash or elbow anyone last night)


Meanwhile in Nashville.


James Neal: 2 Minutes for Slashing

He drew a penalty that led to a goal.

Anyway I voted to keep Hornqvist/Spalling, I think those two will benefit us more in the playoffs.

Edit: Also interesting to see that keeping the trade is winning 9-1, the immediate reaction on this board was definitely the opposite.

 

[IcedCapp]

I would take the trade back, simply because I don't think Spaling is great, nor is he worth the contract he received.

 

[penguins2946*]

It was a win-win deal. Hornqvist looks to have instant chemistry with Sid, and KCH is a crazy good 1st line. Spaling won like 75% of his faceoffs last night and is solid depth for us. On the other hand, Neal had a great game according to Preds fans, and we really needed to make a big change. Neal had stagnated here and devolved into just a 1 trick pony sniper. He needed to be moved.

 

[DegenX]

I really liked Hornqvist's game last night and he's a right handed shot. I'm fine with it so far. He seems to be much more mature. (For ex: Didn't slash or elbow anyone last night)


Meanwhile in Nashville.


James Neal: 2 Minutes for Slashing

And Kunitz got 2 for slashing, Spaling got 2 for hooking, Geno had 2 penalties .... and it's not like Hornqvist never spends any time in the box.

So far, Hornqvist has looked good with Sid, but it's pretty early in the season yet. Spaling is ... meh. All things considered, I would have rather kept Neal and given the few decent prospects we have a real chance to make the team. I'd undo the trade.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I like the trade. I think Hornqvist helps us more than Neal. I really do.

Neal is the better player in a vacuum. Hornqvist makes us a better team than Neal would.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm still withholding final judgment. I think players like Neal are harder to find than players like Hornqvist. However, Hornqvist is one of the best at his craft and was much needed. I also think in this system, having cyclers and net crashers is huge. Plus, seeing the D jump into the play like they did, lessens the need for a pure sniper like Neal IMO. Maatta controlled the play coming in late rather than Neal being the trailer.

I think we technically lost the trade because Neal was the best player in the deal but we may end up a better team when all is said and done.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm still withholding final judgment. I think players like Neal are harder to find than players like Hornqvist. However, Hornqvist is one of the best at his craft and was much needed. I also think in this system, having cyclers and net crashers is huge. Plus, seeing the D jump into the play like they did, lessens the need for a pure sniper like Neal IMO. Maatta controlled the play coming in late rather than Neal being the trailer.

I think we technically lost the trade because Neal was the best player in the deal but we may end up a better team when all is said and done.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I like the trade. I think Hornqvist helps us more than Neal. I really do.

Neal is the better player in a vacuum. Hornqvist makes us a better team than Neal would.

Yup. Neal is just not a player you win a cup with, because he does very little to help out teammates. His game is selfish, and he tries to win with the least amount of sacrifice possible. Horns is the opposite.

Neal is a great regular season player, but when the playoffs come around and the game changes, he's not willing to pay the price it takes to be effective and to win.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Its awfully early to tell but Im going with keep.

KCH looked sweet as heck last night. I think he'll score 31 - 33g which is only about 7 - 9 less than what Neal would get. Not a huge drop off. Horns also seems like less of a liability on the ice.

Spaling, whilst not great in a bubble, improves the 3rd and or 4th line depth dramatically. Thats where his value is.

Would it have been nice to get a 2nd pick to use as a trade chip? Sure. Absolutely. But such is life.

So for me its a keep all the way.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The signing of Ehrhoff at least showed that they had some plan, and that this was part of that. I can at least get this trade. Still, the Pens lost the most skilled player. I always go for the skill in the end.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

I always go for the skill in the end.

But thats not always the right decision.

Case and point. Shero always "drafted the best person left on the board." Thats great in theory .. but when the best person left is a Dman and you already have 5 Dmen in the cupboard ... perhaps expanding the theory is the best option. We have so many NHL ready Dmen but only 1, possibly 2 forwards.

"Always" is just too rigid. There has to be exceptions.

 

[orby]

Hornqvist is a good top 6 winger who fills a particularly scoring niche the Pens badly needed (a NET FRONT GUY), in addition to being a pretty respected leader type in the Nashville locker room. Spaling is a decent bottom 6 player, which is miles above what could be said anyone who stuck in last year's bottom 6 besides Sutter and Goc.

Neal is obviously an elite goal scorer and it's never easy to part with a guy who's gonna pot 35 to 40, but I don't think the production dropoff between him and Hornqvist is going to be earth-shattering. I think some of the ground could be made up by Malkin looking to shoot more instead of just deferring to Neal. The top 6 is still a trade away from completion, at least, but dealing Neal allowed the Pens to start restructuring their lines to be less top-heavy, which is something that will help them. I think it was a good hockey trade for both teams.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Neal is obviously an elite goal scorer and it's never easy to part with a guy who's gonna pot 35 to 40, but I don't think the production dropoff between him and Hornqvist is going to be earth-shattering. I think some of the ground could be made up by Malkin looking to shoot more instead of just deferring to Neal. The top 6 is still a trade away from completion, at least, but dealing Neal allowed the Pens to start restructuring their lines to be less top-heavy, which is something that will help them. I think it was a good hockey trade for both teams.

I also think that with the bottom 6 being better, the goal differential will be very very small.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yup. Neal is just not a player you win a cup with, because he does very little to help out teammates. His game is selfish, and he tries to win with the least amount of sacrifice possible. Horns is the opposite.

Neal is a great regular season player, but when the playoffs come around and the game changes, he's not willing to pay the price it takes to be effective and to win.

This is where we disagree. I really like Neal. I'd love to still have him. I just like Hornqvist even more for our team right now.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

This is where we disagree. I really like Neal. I'd love to still have him. I just like Hornqvist even more for our team right now.

I think that is also an important distinction.

Neal is way more valuable to certain teams than he is to the Pens. With Sid and Geno both capable of scoring 35+ a year, do you really NEED a 40+ goal guy?

 

[SEALBound]

I would go back and make it:

Neal for Hornq + 1st 2014

or

Neal + 1st 2014 for Hornq + Spaling + 1st 2014

Then I would have used that 1st to take Nick Ritchie.

Time will tell. One game doesn't justify or nullify a trade. I do think Hornqvist is more what need than Neal...however now Malkin has squat so...

 

[Big McLargehuge]

For as much as it thoroughly pissed me off at the time, it didn't take long to see the reasoning of it.

After seeing the results in action...I love it. Horny is everything we wanted Neal to be away from the puck. In a vacuum I don't think anyone would argue that Neal is a better player, but at the same time it's hard to argue that Hornqvist isn't the better player for this team.


Oh and guys, don't argue about grammar. There's a time and a place for that and it's called Twitter

 

[ProgOg]

And Kunitz got 2 for slashing, Spaling got 2 for hooking, Geno had 2 penalties .... and it's not like Hornqvist never spends any time in the box.

So far, Hornqvist has looked good with Sid, but it's pretty early in the season yet. Spaling is ... meh. All things considered, I would have rather kept Neal and given the few decent prospects we have a real chance to make the team. I'd undo the trade.

Right. Lots of players who take penalties on this team. Over the last few years the only players to take more penalties than Neal: nobody. After Neal? Kunitz, Malkin, Niskanen, Orpik.
(In the same timeframe Hornqvist took 40 penalties less compared to Neal. Hornqvist and Neal also have drawn the same amount of penalties.)


I like the idea of James Neal - skilled sniper? Hell yeah. That skill level will definitely be missed. But the team has a lot of skill - what Hornqvist brings? Is something that, in my opinion, was needed more.

 

[Black Label]

I liked the trade when it happened and I still like it now. I would have preferred getting Forsberg instead of Spaling but it is what it is.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I would go back and make it:

Neal for Hornq + 1st 2014

or

Neal + 1st 2014 for Hornq + Spaling + 1st 2014

Then I would have used that 1st to take Nick Ritchie.

Time will tell. One game doesn't justify or nullify a trade. I do think Hornqvist is more what need than Neal...however now Malkin has squat so...

I won't argue that the value was right. Especially after how much we paid Spaling. I think we could have done a little better on the +.

I liked the trade when it happened and I still like it now. I would have preferred getting Forsberg instead of Spaling but it is what it is.

We couldn't have done that much better though That's a big jump from Spaling to Forsberg.