Quebec govt likely to make any QMJHL financial assistance contingent on fight ban

[LeHab]

According to the excellent reporting by Alexandre Pratt of La Presse, QMJHL commissioner Gilles Courteau met with Quebec’s minister of education Isabelle Charest last week to ask for about $20 million to cover lost revenues for next season for the 12 teams located in the province. According to La Presse, the minister was amenable to the idea, but only if the league did something to curtail fighting.
...

And this is where things get interesting. According to La Presse, QMJHL commissioner Gilles Courteau responded by proposing a rule change that would see fighting be penalized with a 15-minute penalty rather than a five-minute major and a player would be suspended one game after five fighting majors in a season. (It’s important to note, however, that just nine players in the league had five or more fights in 2019-20.) The league’s board of governors voted 10-8 in favor of adopting the new sanctions, but in order for a rule change to pass, it needs to be endorsed by at least 12 teams.

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/will-qmjhl-change-its-fighting-rules-to-get-government-money

Both sides are pretty far apart as even modified fighting rules were voted against.

Click to read more...

 

[Stumbledore]

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/will-qmjhl-change-its-fighting-rules-to-get-government-money

Both sides are pretty far apart as even modified fighting rules were voted against.

If you take the King's shilling, you do the King's bidding.

 

[LeHab]

If you take the King's shilling, you do the King's bidding.

Part of the challenge might be potential aid is intendent for the 12 Quebec based teams only. League requires support from 12 out of 18 teams for any changes. Don't know what is the stance of out of province teams & govts but at worst all Quebec teams will have to be unanimous.

 

[Rob]

Many of the Q teams draw flies as it is. They will financial assistance or teams will fold.

 

[mouser]

https://www.si.com/hockey/news/will-qmjhl-change-its-fighting-rules-to-get-government-money

Both sides are pretty far apart as even modified fighting rules were voted against.

Do you have any additional sources or opinions you’d like to share on the fighting debate in junior hockey to educate me and hopefully some others?

I like to think I’ve kept up to date with the NHL and some other major professional leagues shifting treatment of fighting over the past several decades. But I will confess I’m not familiar with the curent views and debate on the state of fighting in the Canadian junior leagues.

 

[Bondurant]

Campbell offers no evidence that Pratt's reporting is "excellent".

 

[DoyleG]

Quebec government asks QMJHL to ban fighting before providing funding

Long-time hockey broadcaster John Moore says he was surprised by the move.
“To hold the league and those millions of dollars and say, ‘You won’t receive this unless’… that’s an awful strong threat,” says Moore.
Moore says he isn’t sure the league will remove fighting in order to receive the funding.
“The Quebec league has reduced fighting and they have taken steps to do that,” says Moore.

 

[Hasbro]

They should add a hazing ban too.

 

[IslesNorway]

They should add a hazing ban too.

Absolutely. Is there a reason not to ban fighting in junior hockey?

 

[Stumbledore]

Absolutely. Is there a reason not to ban fighting in junior hockey?

Just the usual "necessary outlet" nonsense.

 

[LeHab]

Do you have any additional sources or opinions you’d like to share on the fighting debate in junior hockey to educate me and hopefully some others?

I like to think I’ve kept up to date with the NHL and some other major professional leagues shifting treatment of fighting over the past several decades. But I will confess I’m not familiar with the curent views and debate on the state of fighting in the Canadian junior leagues.

Don't follow much junior hockey, perhaps someone else can chime in.

From what I heard, advocates for ban cite potential long term injuries, young age and status (amateurs) while the other side cites fighting as a deterrent against dirty plays/protection of star players. League seems inclined to conduct a more comprehensive review of potential impacts from a ban and how to address any underlying issues however this would take time. Season starts on Oct 1st.

 

[gstommylee]

15mins for fighting is ridicilous.... So she would rather see teams fold or the entire league to go bye bye than to provide funding to over players policing themselves. So banning fighting won't stop the dirty hits. So whats next quebec demanding that they ban body checking and make it a no contact sport completely?

 

[Stumbledore]

15mins for fighting is ridicilous.... So she would rather see teams fold or the entire league to go bye bye than to provide funding to over players policing themselves. So banning fighting won't stop the dirty hits. So whats next quebec demanding that they ban body checking and make it a no contact sport completely?

I'm not sure why 15 minutes for fighting is ridicilous or ridiculous. In many sports, if you start fighting you're out of the game and possibly the whole season. There's no correlation between banning fighting and stopping the dirty hits. Rules enforced by referees will stop the dirty hits.

As for players policing themselves, check out Lady Stanley's new post about pain in the NHL. The players are serfs. Millionaire serfs who will follow orders to keep those millions rolling in.

 

[gstommylee]

I'm not sure why 15 minutes for fighting is ridicilous or ridiculous. In many sports, if you start fighting you're out of the game and possibly the whole season. There's no correlation between banning fighting and stopping the dirty hits. Rules enforced by referees will stop the dirty hits.

As for players policing themselves, check out Lady Stanley's new post about pain in the NHL. The players are serfs. Millionaire serfs who will follow orders to keep those millions rolling in.

Fighting is down in hockey why? Is it down cause increase of punishment to reduce dirty hits and reduction of the existence of enforcers. Banning fighting will not stop players from making dirty hits.

Enforcing the rules by the refs won't stop it either. You want to stop dirty hits then you basically have to declare body checking as illegal and ban it from hockey completely which will basically kill interest in the sport by the fans.

That article shows a completely different problem. Players abusing pain killers for beyond than what they were intended use.

 

[Stumbledore]

Fighting is down in hockey why? Is it down cause increase of punishment to reduce dirty hits and reduction of the existence of enforcers. Banning fighting will not stop players from making dirty hits.

Enforcing the rules by the refs won't stop it either. You want to stop dirty hits then you basically have to declare body checking as illegal and ban it from hockey completely which will basically kill interest in the sport by the fans.

That article shows a completely different problem. Players abusing pain killers for beyond than what they were intended use.

I fail to see any supporting arguments for your main propositions.

 

[gstommylee]

I fail to see any supporting arguments for your main propositions.

Dirty hits will continue to happen. You can ban fighting all you want but that won't get rid of it. Unless you get rid of body checking completely (which will never happen) dirty hits will continue to happen and so would players policing themselves.

There are ways to reduce dirty hits how about education players to make cleaner hits since relaying on the refs enforcing the rules won't stop it.

So government won't give funding until league punishes everyone even teams outside of Quebec. Might as well fold the league then and screw the entire hockey world.

Better solution target why fights happen like increasing punishment of dirty hits or education player to make cleaner hits and reduce player retailiating against others. Head shots still happen, players body checking against the players backs (on the numbers) against the boards (boarding), blind sight hits, retaliations etc end up causing players to go after others.

 

[Stumbledore]

Dirty hits will continue to happen. You can ban fighting all you want but that won't get rid of it. Unless you get rid of body checking completely (which will never happen) dirty hits will continue to happen and so would players policing themselves.

There are ways to reduce dirty hits how about education players to make cleaner hits since relaying on the refs enforcing the rules won't stop it.

So government won't give funding until league punishes everyone even teams outside of Quebec. Might as well fold the league then and screw the entire hockey world.

Better solution target why fights happen like increasing punishment of dirty hits or education player to make cleaner hits.

Again, I have to ask: "Dirty hits will continue to happen." How do you know this?

Again, I have to ask: "You can ban fighting all you want but that won't get rid of it." How do you know this?

And again, I ask: "relaying [sic] on the refs enforcing the rules won't stop it." How do you know this?

If supposition is all that's required to make a convincing argument, then I'm going to suppose that The Legend is going to buy the Coyotes in a fire sale. Or is that a fur sale?

 

[gstommylee]

Again, I have to ask: "Dirty hits will continue to happen." How do you know this?

Again, I have to ask: "You can ban fighting all you want but that won't get rid of it." How do you know this?

And again, I ask: "relaying [sic] on the refs enforcing the rules won't stop it." How do you know this?

If supposition is all that's required to make a convincing argument, then I'm going to suppose that The Legend is going to buy the Coyotes in a fire sale. Or is that a fur sale?

I guess i watch different hockey games than you do cause i still see head shots in the NHL when they been declared illegal. I still see players making bad hits against the boards (boarding or cross checking against the boards). As long hockey remains a contact sport dirty hits will happen and so will fights. You want to eliminate dirty hits from ever happening again then you making it a no contact sport and punish and suspend players for body checking and basically make the sport boring for fans.

What the quebec education person wants is being unreasonable. She probably doesn't even watch or understand the sport. There are better ways to reduce fighting than taking financial help hostage and forcing the league to bow down to what ever you say right in a middle of a pandemic where business are shutting down permanently due to loss of revenue.

Again I guess she rather see teams fold or the Quebec jr major league fold entirely...

I said my piece and bowing out.

 

[Stumbledore]

I guess i watch different hockey games than you do cause i still see head shots in the NHL when they been declared illegal. I still see players making bad hits against the boards (boarding or cross checking against the boards). As long hockey remains a contact sport dirty hits will happen and so will fights. You want to eliminate dirty hits from ever happening again then you making it a no contact sport and punish and suspend players for body checking and basically make the sport boring for fans.

What the quebec education person wants is being unreasonable. She probably doesn't even watch or understand the sport. There are better ways to reduce fighting than taking financial help hostage and forcing the league to bow down to what ever you say right in a middle of a pandemic where business are shutting down permanently due to loss of revenue.

Again I guess she rather see teams fold or the Quebec jr major league fold entirely...

I said my piece and bowing out.

I suspect we watch the same hockey games but see them differently. Yes, NHL has declared head shots illegal and then failed to penalize them adequately so, like you, I still see players making bad hits against the boards. What I would love to see, and possibly so would the bureaucrat a la Quebec, is a player making a bad hit and being escorted out of the game. And for his second infraction, missing another entire game. For his third infraction, suspended for 3 games, and so on and so on.

You said, "eliminate dirty hits ... then you making it a no contact sport and ... basically make the sport boring for fans". Two words, my friend: women's hockey. Or more accurately, women's Olympic hockey. Canada versus the United States. Probably the most exciting, contact-filled series I've watched. Virtually no dirty hits, no fights, not as much skill as the NHL, but the competitive fire was there and it was exciting to watch. If you eliminate the fighting and dirty hits in women's hockey and still have an exciting sport, I maintain that you can do the same thing in the faster, more skilled, and competitive game of men's hockey.

Us old guys remember when helmets became mandatory in the NHL. People screamed that it would ruin the game and spoil hockey forever. Nope. It makes it harder for us old folks to recognize players and perhaps saves a life or two from a dangerous ricochet now and then, but hockey is faster, harder and more exciting now than it was 40 years ago. Just my opinion, but backed up with arguments.

 

[mouser]

I guess i watch different hockey games than you do cause i still see head shots in the NHL when they been declared illegal. I still see players making bad hits against the boards (boarding or cross checking against the boards). As long hockey remains a contact sport dirty hits will happen and so will fights. You want to eliminate dirty hits from ever happening again then you making it a no contact sport and punish and suspend players for body checking and basically make the sport boring for fans.

What the quebec education person wants is being unreasonable. She probably doesn't even watch or understand the sport. There are better ways to reduce fighting than taking financial help hostage and forcing the league to bow down to what ever you say right in a middle of a pandemic where business are shutting down permanently due to loss of revenue.

Again I guess she rather see teams fold or the Quebec jr major league fold entirely...

I said my piece and bowing out.

I’m not getting your connection that Fighting somehow reduces Dirty Hits. Leagues adding strong rules against both dirty hits and fighting has reduced both.

Most of the fights in the current NHL result from legal big hits rather then dirty ones. I wouldn’t expect the QMJHL to be different?

 

[Mightygoose]

Part of me thinks this is PR message from the government. Their real answer is they will not provide funding under any circumstances.

The get rid of fighting message is something they know the league cannot do yet it will reinstate with the general population (includes non hockey fans too) that don't want taxpayer's money being used in this manner.

The CHL is already reaching out to the federal government fir aid, the province will just tell them to continue that path.

 

[hockeyguy0022]

The emasculation of sports continues.

I already only watch playoff NHL, because of that

USport/College Hockey is the only hockey I will watch live aside from a special trip to Toronto to see the leafs or New York etc...

Watching Alberta/Sask U sport game is top notch hockey for under 20 bucks in the door.

 

[Stumbledore]

The emasculation of sports continues.

I already only watch playoff NHL, because of that

USport/College Hockey is the only hockey I will watch live aside from a special trip to Toronto to see the leafs or New York etc...

Watching Alberta/Sask U sport game is top notch hockey for under 20 bucks in the door.

If your definition of sport is physically assaulting your opponent in ways forbidden by the rules, then truly let the emasculation continue.

 

[LeHab]

The Quebec Major Junior Hockey League has approved new rules that dole out stiffer punishments for fighting.
All players involved in a fight will now receive a 10-minute misconduct penalty and a five-minute major. Previously, players were assessed only the five-minute major penalty.
Anyone deemed to be an instigator will also get a two-minute minor.
The amended rules will see players automatically handed a one-game suspension after their third fight, plus another game suspension for each additional skirmish.
...
Corteau said the rule changes were not a condition for receiving financial support from the province.
"That part of the discussion I had with the sports minister was very clear. She said to me `I will never impose anything to the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League,"' he said.
The commissioner added that the minister asked him to look at the rules and see if there was a way to reduce the number of concussions in the league.
"I gave her my word that I would work on it, which I did," Corteau said.
The league is asking Quebec for financial assistance because provincial health officials have said they cannot have fans in the stands when the season begins this week, Corteau said.
"The financial support from the Quebec government was important for us to have our teams back on the ice at the right time," he said.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/qmjhl-new-fighting-penalties-1.5745501

Should be seen as a good faith move and eventually allow some sort of compromise to get at least partial financial assistance.

 

[Burke the Legend]

This is laughable they are tough bargaining $20 million with a junior hockey league, trying to micromanage the rules of a sport but they gave the crooks are Bombardier billions with no strings attached. What a bunch of clowns.