Quebec City trying to keep the flame alive

[BMN]

With all the speculation around the Coyotes this week, it would be nice to hear PKP comment on his "deferred" expansion team.

Sure would. It'd even be nice to just have a journalist with even an ounce of curiosity actually call and ask him about it.

 

[KevFu]

One seemingly popular argument that doesn't make sense to me is that the league won't look "professional" or taken as seriously as the other big 4 by having "too many" Canadian teams, especially in smaller markets.

I agree with you and @Reaser

Adding a team in Quebec is Preaching to the Choir. You preach to the choir because that's how you get them to sing.

 

[Reaser]

I agree with you and @Reaser

Adding a team in Quebec is Preaching to the Choir. You preach to the choir because that's how you get them to sing.

I wasn't specifically talking about QC, just in general not using "Canada" as a massive positive for the NHL is horrible business/marketing. Though, I do agree with your previous comments on how to sell/market the uniqueness of QC, if they had a team.

 

[KevFu]

I wasn't specifically talking about QC, just in general not using "Canada" as a massive positive for the NHL is horrible business/marketing. Though, I do agree with your previous comments on how to sell/market the uniqueness of QC, if they had a team.

I agreed with all that, too. I just had much less to chime in with.


The one thing I will say is that while the appearance is that "oh, Canada is underappreciated because of the focus on the US TV ratings instead of LEAGUE TV ratings," you're absolutely right it should be viewed as LEAGUE TV ratings, not by country.

But the other sports don't have that solely because they're so DRASTICALLY UNDERSERVING Canada by ignoring Montreal and Vancouver; and so they just list 29 US teams in MLB and NBA, and the Canadian TV ratings ARE the Jays and Raptors.

There's no US pro sports equivalent of EDM, CAL, OTT, WIN and QC in the US (except maybe the Green Bay Packers). The NHL should embrace that with QC, but also put the model of the other three into place to ensure that you don't face the risk of them needing to leave without a new arena or a bad economy every 30 years.

 

[Reaser]

But the other sports don't have that solely because they're so DRASTICALLY UNDERSERVING Canada by ignoring Montreal and Vancouver; and so they just list 29 US teams in MLB and NBA, and the Canadian TV ratings ARE the Jays and Raptors.

Canada shows MLB and NBA games not involving Toronto. Which, naturally, don't do the #'s that the Jays & Raptors do. Which is a large part of that point.

Or to use MLS, which NHL easily beats in the U.S. anyway, 'no one' in Canada is going to be watching Portland-LAFC this Saturday on TSN2, especially compared to how many will be watching HNIC. But we don't get those comparisons.

We get NBA regular season game 1.2M avg viewership in the U.S., plus the 125k the same game gets on TSN that no one except the handful of us that follow this stuff ever sees. Which, if NHL presented it correctly would be no different from a NHL game getting 1.0M in Canada and same game getting 300k in the U.S.. Instead we get "1.2M watched the NBA game and only 300k watched the NHL game." The NHL can, to an extent (U.S. ratings/viewership are inherently more important, obviously) paint a completely different picture about how popular the NHL is in 'North America'.

 

[KevFu]

Right, I don't think I articulated it well.

They don't include the Canadian audience for national TV games in the US, either.

You look at TV ratings for the pro sports leagues and it's like 123 million people watched the Super Bowl! They're not counting the 10.1 million Canadians who watched.

It's just that hockey is way more "Split" than MLB and NBA, which Canada is viewed as "extra" not "part." Does that make sense?

 

[Reaser]

It's just that hockey is way more "Split" than MLB and NBA, which Canada is viewed as "extra" not "part." Does that make sense?

Ha, obviously I know they don't combine audiences.

The part I quoted is what I'm talking about and the missed opportunity for the NHL to paint a different picture. I know Mark Cuban made a similar point in the mid-2000s and it didn't go over well with a lot of media because, "you can't combine two unique countries ratings!"

Which I agree with, to an extent. But, the NHL CAN do that. I'm talking about NHL PR, they CAN do that. It's selling/marketing/"look, people are watching, don't miss out"/which in the end, is business.

Look at MLB. Every year they put out an end of season article/press release listing of what MLB teams led their RSN/market in ratings & viewership directly compared against and to both NBA/NHL teams in the same market. It's a huge win every time for MLB. Mostly a PR win. NHL can do similar with Canada ratings/viewership. NHL is 4th of the Big 4 in the U.S.. It's not 4th in Canada. That's a win, an easy win, and a win that instead of being celebrated/promoted in any sort of way, is merely just taken for granted.

 

[madhi19]

Ha, obviously I know they don't combine audiences.

The part I quoted is what I'm talking about and the missed opportunity for the NHL to paint a different picture. I know Mark Cuban made a similar point in the mid-2000s and it didn't go over well with a lot of media because, "you can't combine two unique countries ratings!"

Which I agree with, to an extent. But, the NHL CAN do that. I'm talking about NHL PR, they CAN do that. It's selling/marketing/"look, people are watching, don't miss out"/which in the end, is business.

Look at MLB. Every year they put out an end of season article/press release listing of what MLB teams led their RSN/market in ratings & viewership directly compared against and to both NBA/NHL teams in the same market. It's a huge win every time for MLB. Mostly a PR win. NHL can do similar with Canada ratings/viewership. NHL is 4th of the Big 4 in the U.S.. It's not 4th in Canada. That's a win, an easy win, and a win that instead of being celebrated/promoted in any sort of way, is merely just taken for granted.

Especially considering recent Canadian demographic. You want a fresh brand new market that positioned at the right place to be your future hockey fans start marketing to the five freaking million resident and citizen that Canada added since 2017. Almost most of them in Québec and Ontario. The next census cannot come soon enough.

 

[joelef]

Especially considering recent Canadian demographic. You want a fresh brand new market that positioned at the right place to be your future hockey fans start marketing to the five freaking million resident and citizen that Canada added since 2017. Almost most of them in Québec and Ontario. The next census cannot come soon enough.

The nhl Dosent market it smart and hockey pretents that demographic of Canada are the same at the 50s

 

[Reaser]

Especially considering recent Canadian demographic. You want a fresh brand new market that positioned at the right place to be your future hockey fans start marketing to the five freaking million resident and citizen that Canada added since 2017. Almost most of them in Québec and Ontario. The next census cannot come soon enough.

That's an excellent point.

To that point, an important and underrated part of marketing is "fear of missing out." We just saw it in the U.S. with Caitlin Clark. A recent, albeit extreme example. A large chunk of the nearly 19M avg viewers weren't watching her final collegiate game because they're women's college basketball fans, or even because they're Caitilin Clark fans. They were watching because that's what people were talking about and -especially general sports fans- didn't want to be "left out." Wanted to feel part of it and be able to discuss it with everyone else that was watching.

You can do that directly to Canadians, both new and old. I have the #'s (the few I could pry out of Canada,) you can say it in October, you can say it in November, etc. & etc., "over 2 million Canadians were watching the 7pm HNIC window Saturday night!" You repeat that, week after week and the people not watching start feeling left out.

And, to my point about USA/CAN combined, 9 different months a year, plenty of opportunities for selling that, especially post-football season in the U.S.,

If I was running the NHL PR account on X (twitter) I'd be hammering (example matchups) "Leafs-Bruins was the most-viewed sporting event across the U.S. and Canada last night," and then a couple days later, "Oilers-Penguins was the most-viewed sporting event across the U.S. and Canada last night." That sticks in minds, and gets repetitive. People will ignore Canada carrying that viewership, because they already do ignore Canadian viewership, and you change the narrative from "only 400k were watching" in the U.S., to million(s) were watching hockey "across the U.S. and Canada."

 

[joelef]

That's an excellent point.

To that point, an important and underrated part of marketing is "fear of missing out." We just saw it in the U.S. with Caitlin Clark. A recent, albeit extreme example. Nearly 19M weren't watching her final collegiate game because they're women's college basketball fans, or even because they're Caitilin Clark fans. They were watching because that's what people were talking about and -especially general sports fans- didn't want to be "left out." Wanted to feel part of it and be able to discuss it with everyone else that was watching.

You can do that directly to Canadians, both new and old. I have the #'s (the few I could pry out of Canada,) you can say it in October, you can say it in November, etc. & etc., "over 2 million Canadians were watching the 7pm HNIC window Saturday night!" You repeat that, week after week and the people not watching start feeling left out.

And, to my point about USA/CAN combined, 9 different months a year, plenty of opportunities for selling that, especially post-football season in the U.S.,

If I was running the NHL PR account on X (twitter) I'd be hammering (example matchups) "Leafs-Bruins was the most-viewed sporting event across the U.S. and Canada last night," and then a couple days later, "Oilers-Penguins was the most-viewed sporting event across the U.S. and Canada last night." That sticks in minds, and gets repetitive. People will ignore Canada carrying that viewership, because they already do ignore Canadian viewership, and you change the narrative from "only 400k were watching" in the U.S., to million(s) were watching hockey "across the U.S. and Canada."

People at least know who Caitlyn Clark is no one knows Mcdavid is even those is putting up goat like numbers .

 

[Zenos]

Especially considering recent Canadian demographic. You want a fresh brand new market that positioned at the right place to be your future hockey fans start marketing to the five freaking million resident and citizen that Canada added since 2017. Almost most of them in Québec and Ontario. The next census cannot come soon enough.

What does almost most mean?
Surely many can be found in British Columbia and Alberta as well, no?

 

[edog37]

If you have markets like Winnipeg and Quebec who are head-over-heels all-in on your product, and they can't make it work financially, that means the financial structure of your league is messed up.

The NHL needs to go back to Quebec simply because it's the right thing to do and makes the league better. Fix your economics (RS) so that places which consider hockey the #1 sport and have 800,000 people can be more than hopefully viable; Cash in on the nostalgia factor amongst 40-50 year old people with disposable income while you still can.


I have had this weird belief that Bettman gets this and he's gonna welcome the 'Diques back right before he retires.

No it means the market doesn’t work. Pro sports changed a long time ago.

 

[madhi19]

What does almost most mean?
Surely many can be found in British Columbia and Alberta as well, no?

That's why I put almost in front of most. loll A bit redundant. Like I said the 2026 census cannot come soon enough.

 

[sneakytitz]

If I was running the NHL PR account on X (twitter) I'd be hammering (example matchups) "Leafs-Bruins was the most-viewed sporting event across the U.S. and Canada last night," and then a couple days later, "Oilers-Penguins was the most-viewed sporting event across the U.S. and Canada last night." That sticks in minds, and gets repetitive. People will ignore Canada carrying that viewership, because they already do ignore Canadian viewership, and you change the narrative from "only 400k were watching" in the U.S., to million(s) were watching hockey "across the U.S. and Canada."

WWE does this all the time with international viewers, e.g. "Millions watching around the world!". Yeah, it does stick and makes things sound even more impressive.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

No it means the market doesn’t work. Pro sports changed a long time ago.

You have to be incredibly delusional at this point to think Quebec has a any shot especially seeing how Winnipeg is failing badly.

 

[tucker3434]

I think the Yotes were QC's shot. I'm not sure QC will ever be a competitive option in expansion any time soon. They're perpetually in 3rd place for the 2 expansion slots. If Phoenix can make progress on an arena, they'd probably be ahead of QC for the 35/36 expansion. With there being some movement in SD and always a bit of talk about GTA2, I could see it happening again.

As prices climb, small markets become more and more difficult. Seems like this may have been the end of their window. If they can't get there now, how are they going to get there a decade from now when they're still <1m population and expansion fees are over $2.5b? The math is only getting worse.

 

[Slashers98]

I think the Yotes were QC's shot. I'm not sure QC will ever be a competitive option in expansion any time soon. They're perpetually in 3rd place for the 2 expansion slots. If Phoenix can make progress on an arena, they'd probably be ahead of QC for the 35/36 expansion. With there being some movement in SD and always a bit of talk about GTA2, I could see it happening again.

As prices climb, small markets become more and more difficult. Seems like this may have been the end of their window. If they can't get there now, how are they going to get there a decade from now when they're still <1m population and expansion fees are over $2.5b? The math is only getting worse.

Quebec City will never have a team unless the NHL needs to relocate an Eastern team in a hurry... Even then, Bettman will prefer Houston or Chattanooga over us.

 

[madhi19]

Quebec City will never have a team unless the NHL needs to relocate an Eastern team in a hurry... Even then, Bettman will prefer Houston or Chattanooga over us.

They were the emergency plan for this circus, just like Winnipeg was. The unspoken part of emergency plan is always. "Only if I have to, and only until I have a better emergency plan."

 

[barkovcanfinnish]

Florida also should have been relocated a looooong time ago.

To Fort Lauderdale or Miami

 

[Stumbledore]

You have to be incredibly delusional at this point to think Quebec has a any shot especially seeing how Winnipeg is failing badly.

You have to be incredibly delusional to think that Winnipeg is failing badly.

Do get your facts straight and try to keep up.

 

[tiredman]

Quebec City will never have a team unless the NHL needs to relocate an Eastern team in a hurry... Even then, Bettman will prefer Houston or Chattanooga over us.

Yep. And I believe the interest in hockey and the NHL is falling fast here in Quebec city. I don't even watch the games anymore. Haven't followed much in the last 5 years. Most people I know stopped following too. TVA sports will probably close in a year or two.

The NHL has done a very poor job with our market and took us for granted. Bettman never had good words for our city. It's ok. He has probably been very successful to develop non traditional hockey market, but for the province of Quebec, he has been terrible.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

You have to be incredibly delusional to think that Winnipeg is failing badly.

Do get your facts straight and try to keep up.

Just using the standards that have been used for at least the last couple decade for what is and isn't a successful market but I guess the standards have been drastically lowered since Winnipeg can't draw or get any corporate support.

 

[Stumbledore]

Just using the standards that have been used for at least the last couple decade for what is and isn't a successful market but I guess the standards have been drastically lowered since Winnipeg can't draw or get any corporate support.

Sorry, but you're too uninformed to bother with. Out.

 

[polan]

Does Quebec even have ownership or a group trying to bring back the Nordiques? Like Alpharetta Sports & Entertainment Group is for Atlanta.