You can drop your City glasses, KDB was awful, and everyone and their mother can see it.
Euro: QF: Wales vs. Belgium, 7/1/2016
- Thread starter Live in the Now
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mmk786
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- Mar 3, 2004
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You have more of a history with Hazard than anyone else here. Talking incessantly about him since his Ligue 1 days and constantly defending him and his play when criticized.
I guess you feel compelled since you used to put him atop your cute little youth player rankings and you have this strong desire to show everyone posting here how you are always right in hidsight.
If a player from those rankings of yours lives up to the hype its because you are such an awesome judge of talent and if he fails like Sinama Pongolle etc its because someone else ruined him. So predictable. So in short you should heed your own advice.
Sorry, Hazard proved me right a long time ago. No need for anything else.
However, KDB was ****** for almost every game in this tournament. Everyone can see it, he's getting flamed for it and yet you still defend him. Guess a year ago, you wouldn't have, but...
And yes, prospects develop or don't because of coaching and playing time. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that.
mmk786
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- Mar 3, 2004
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Savi
Registered User
So Wilmots has said that we have done very well the past four years and right now quitting the job is not on his mind.
And just now the Belgian FA have released a statement they won't fire him at this time.
It's funny (or sad) but 'being a team' has always been our thing in the past. Granted, we've never had a group as talented as this one, and we like to be the underdog, but this is probably the first time we've had this problem.
Look, it's pretty clear Wilmots should have never been appointed as manager. Everyone knew the kind of talent we had on the way, you don't hand over the reigns to a guy with almost no managerial experience (he managed St-Truiden for a while in late 2004, a club usually found in the right column of the Belgian league, but was fired after just a couple of months). We all knew it at the time but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt because it was obvious he had done very well as an assistent to both Dick Advocaat and Georges Leekens. He's good at managing individuals and he's had great relationships with both Flemish and Wallon players and he brought both groups together. His selection policy has been pretty good as well and he's a good motivator.
But that's where it ends. Right from the start it was clear that we were going to play a pretty slow type of game and rely on flashes of individual brilliance from our star players. Wilmots got away with that in the WC QF because it was for the greater good: finally getting to a WC again. However when we played like **** at said WC that's when people started to realise things weren't getting better, they were getting worse. It didn't really help when Wilmots made dumb comments, like saying he didn't feel the need to practice set pieces or corner kicks (the evidence of that was pretty clear during games). When we lost to Argentina there was some moaning from the general public because we didn't create much of anything but still, since we lost to a big team, it was deemed somewhat acceptable.
However, at no point during the past 2 years have we seen the progress we all hoped for. We've played some atrocious games during the EURO qualifying. We were shutout twice by Wales, we held on for dear life at Israel and at Cyprus (both 1-0 wins) and even Andorra managed to score against us. But because we won friendlies against France and Italy and eventually won our QF group, Wilmots got away with it again. He can't this time though. He needs to go and everyone knows it, it's also the first time everyone in the Belgian media agree with eachother and say it out loud. There has always been some form of faith in Wilmots but that's gone now.
Having said that, I don't think you can put this 100% on Wilmots alone. Players are at fault as well. I mean this is supposed to be the golden generation but imo there seems to be a serious lack of personality in this group. You'd think after being outmatched so many times in certain games, someone would step up against the coaching staff. But nobody takes their responsibility. Kompany's the leader of this team, but his "its all good" mentality is really frustrating. Hazard doesn't take things seriously and shouldn't be the vice captain. De Bruyne is always playing his own game. Witsel has been a shadow of his former self.. he was great at Standard and Benfica, but I'm not sure what happened in Russia. He is literally making himself invisible on the pitch. Alderweireld and Vertonghen are good defenders but they're still prone to making mistakes, and they're no leaders.
When you have a terrible coach, and you've got the kind of players we have, they should be able to correct themselves during games when you're not playing well. Maybe this will sound a bit arrogant, but with all this talent, do you really need a manager to beat a team like Wales? These guys plays at the biggest clubs in the world, they've been together at the NT for years now, shouldn't they be able to figure **** out themselves instead of pointing at eachother during the game?
And just now the Belgian FA have released a statement they won't fire him at this time.
It's funny (or sad) but 'being a team' has always been our thing in the past. Granted, we've never had a group as talented as this one, and we like to be the underdog, but this is probably the first time we've had this problem.
Look, it's pretty clear Wilmots should have never been appointed as manager. Everyone knew the kind of talent we had on the way, you don't hand over the reigns to a guy with almost no managerial experience (he managed St-Truiden for a while in late 2004, a club usually found in the right column of the Belgian league, but was fired after just a couple of months). We all knew it at the time but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt because it was obvious he had done very well as an assistent to both Dick Advocaat and Georges Leekens. He's good at managing individuals and he's had great relationships with both Flemish and Wallon players and he brought both groups together. His selection policy has been pretty good as well and he's a good motivator.
But that's where it ends. Right from the start it was clear that we were going to play a pretty slow type of game and rely on flashes of individual brilliance from our star players. Wilmots got away with that in the WC QF because it was for the greater good: finally getting to a WC again. However when we played like **** at said WC that's when people started to realise things weren't getting better, they were getting worse. It didn't really help when Wilmots made dumb comments, like saying he didn't feel the need to practice set pieces or corner kicks (the evidence of that was pretty clear during games). When we lost to Argentina there was some moaning from the general public because we didn't create much of anything but still, since we lost to a big team, it was deemed somewhat acceptable.
However, at no point during the past 2 years have we seen the progress we all hoped for. We've played some atrocious games during the EURO qualifying. We were shutout twice by Wales, we held on for dear life at Israel and at Cyprus (both 1-0 wins) and even Andorra managed to score against us. But because we won friendlies against France and Italy and eventually won our QF group, Wilmots got away with it again. He can't this time though. He needs to go and everyone knows it, it's also the first time everyone in the Belgian media agree with eachother and say it out loud. There has always been some form of faith in Wilmots but that's gone now.
Having said that, I don't think you can put this 100% on Wilmots alone. Players are at fault as well. I mean this is supposed to be the golden generation but imo there seems to be a serious lack of personality in this group. You'd think after being outmatched so many times in certain games, someone would step up against the coaching staff. But nobody takes their responsibility. Kompany's the leader of this team, but his "its all good" mentality is really frustrating. Hazard doesn't take things seriously and shouldn't be the vice captain. De Bruyne is always playing his own game. Witsel has been a shadow of his former self.. he was great at Standard and Benfica, but I'm not sure what happened in Russia. He is literally making himself invisible on the pitch. Alderweireld and Vertonghen are good defenders but they're still prone to making mistakes, and they're no leaders.
When you have a terrible coach, and you've got the kind of players we have, they should be able to correct themselves during games when you're not playing well. Maybe this will sound a bit arrogant, but with all this talent, do you really need a manager to beat a team like Wales? These guys plays at the biggest clubs in the world, they've been together at the NT for years now, shouldn't they be able to figure **** out themselves instead of pointing at eachother during the game?
Sorry, but isn't that the exact reason why he was named coach and will (apparently) continue to be?
Savi
Registered User
Yeah, probably.
But as I said earlier, even if they were to somehow fire him, I still don't trust the FA to bring in a better manager. I mean, the utter incompetence those guys have been displaying over the past 4 years is just unbelievable.
But as I said earlier, even if they were to somehow fire him, I still don't trust the FA to bring in a better manager. I mean, the utter incompetence those guys have been displaying over the past 4 years is just unbelievable.
gary69
Registered User
Are there any promising young full backs (or even CB's) coming through in Belgium in time for the WC 2018. It most likely has never been easier to get in into the Belgium's national team as it would be now.
J. Lukaku surely can't be selected at this moment unless he improves a lot, he looks like he has never defended a cross in his life and can't even tackle effectively.
And both him and Denayer were all at see and seemed like incapable of marking or paying attention to things happening around them.
Why wasn't for example Lombaerts selected, or is he done at the top level even if he's not that old? He surely couldn't have been worse than Denayer.
I haven't seen much of Kabasele (who joined Watford from Genk) but if he's behind Denayer ability wise then he won't succeed in England, I'd assume.
J. Lukaku surely can't be selected at this moment unless he improves a lot, he looks like he has never defended a cross in his life and can't even tackle effectively.
And both him and Denayer were all at see and seemed like incapable of marking or paying attention to things happening around them.
Why wasn't for example Lombaerts selected, or is he done at the top level even if he's not that old? He surely couldn't have been worse than Denayer.
I haven't seen much of Kabasele (who joined Watford from Genk) but if he's behind Denayer ability wise then he won't succeed in England, I'd assume.
Savi
Registered User
It's not really fair to completely write off Denayer after one bad game. The entire team failed last night. And I know Wilmots is probably too dumb to realise it, but he never should have put a young defense like that in a position to fail like he did.
Denayer has played some very good games, most notibly last summer when we beat France in Paris. He was fantastic in that game. Still think he's a future starter for us.
We don't really have established full backs at this point, the ones we do have are still young and inexperienced and it will take some time for them to get there. But even so, I don't think you need your FB's to be world class. They just need to be solid defensively and they need a coach and system in which their weaknessess don't get exploited like they do now.
Lombaerts should have been here. Another huge mistake by Wilmots. He got slightly injured before the start of the tournament but it was made clear he would be able to play and Wilmots sent him home anyway. Why? Who knows.
Kabasele is very inexperienced. Two years ago, at 23, he was still playing in the 2nd division in Belgium. He has had two good seasons at Genk now, but even this past season I've seen him doing some weird things out there. I wonder how he'll do at Watford.
Denayer has played some very good games, most notibly last summer when we beat France in Paris. He was fantastic in that game. Still think he's a future starter for us.
We don't really have established full backs at this point, the ones we do have are still young and inexperienced and it will take some time for them to get there. But even so, I don't think you need your FB's to be world class. They just need to be solid defensively and they need a coach and system in which their weaknessess don't get exploited like they do now.
Lombaerts should have been here. Another huge mistake by Wilmots. He got slightly injured before the start of the tournament but it was made clear he would be able to play and Wilmots sent him home anyway. Why? Who knows.
Kabasele is very inexperienced. Two years ago, at 23, he was still playing in the 2nd division in Belgium. He has had two good seasons at Genk now, but even this past season I've seen him doing some weird things out there. I wonder how he'll do at Watford.
Yeah I'm not a fan of Lombaerts but he should've been there for exactly what happened: injuries and suspensions. Calling up Kabasele and not giving Lombaerts a chance is just stupid and arrogant (which perfectly describes Wilmots).
Engels will be given a chance and Denayer shouldn't be written off. He's definitely a solid prospect. Boyata would've been a good backup if he didn't get injured. Cavanda wasn't awful when he got a call-up. They could give Castagne and Heylen a shot.
I'm actually worried about our striker position. Lukaku had one good game where he was served on a plate by KDB and Hazard. Benteke looks absolutely lost. He and Lukaku should be beasts up front but play like absolute weaklings. Origi and Batshuayi are inconsistent when given a chance. But I don't think any of the youth players are ready for the jump up.
For the next two years I'd like to see Musonda, T. Hazard, Tielemans, Praet, Dendoncker given a more prominent role in the senior team.
Engels will be given a chance and Denayer shouldn't be written off. He's definitely a solid prospect. Boyata would've been a good backup if he didn't get injured. Cavanda wasn't awful when he got a call-up. They could give Castagne and Heylen a shot.
I'm actually worried about our striker position. Lukaku had one good game where he was served on a plate by KDB and Hazard. Benteke looks absolutely lost. He and Lukaku should be beasts up front but play like absolute weaklings. Origi and Batshuayi are inconsistent when given a chance. But I don't think any of the youth players are ready for the jump up.
For the next two years I'd like to see Musonda, T. Hazard, Tielemans, Praet, Dendoncker given a more prominent role in the senior team.
Savi
Registered User
Cavanda wasn't awful??? Maybe you don't remember that game a few months ago, but he was disgustingly bad and got subbed off early. He looked like he never played a football game in his life.
Not a fan of Boyata either. Never understood why he got so much credit.
Engels and Denayer could be future starters. I'm really high on Engels. Dendoncker could be converted to a CB as well, he's already played in that position.
At RB I think both Castagne and Foket can develop into solid players. It's a shame Castagne has been plagued by injuries last season so he hasn't played a lot. Meunier will get some invaluable experience at PSG so I think we should be allright going forward.
LB will be a different story though. There's Lukaku.. and not much else. De Bock has been decent for Brugge but doesn't seem to have to potential to develop into a next level LB. After that we're down to guys like Pocognoli, Godeau, Odoi, Fiore, Verboom..
Also, Tielemans and Praet need to leave Anderlecht ASAP. Praet hasn't made any real progression in two years. Tielemans is the same player he was last summer. And besides, both of them are really just more of the same of what we already have. They're both good prospects but they lack personality, especially Praet. Talk about someone who doesn't give a **** if he wins or loses, lol.
Not a fan of Boyata either. Never understood why he got so much credit.
Engels and Denayer could be future starters. I'm really high on Engels. Dendoncker could be converted to a CB as well, he's already played in that position.
At RB I think both Castagne and Foket can develop into solid players. It's a shame Castagne has been plagued by injuries last season so he hasn't played a lot. Meunier will get some invaluable experience at PSG so I think we should be allright going forward.
LB will be a different story though. There's Lukaku.. and not much else. De Bock has been decent for Brugge but doesn't seem to have to potential to develop into a next level LB. After that we're down to guys like Pocognoli, Godeau, Odoi, Fiore, Verboom..
Also, Tielemans and Praet need to leave Anderlecht ASAP. Praet hasn't made any real progression in two years. Tielemans is the same player he was last summer. And besides, both of them are really just more of the same of what we already have. They're both good prospects but they lack personality, especially Praet. Talk about someone who doesn't give a **** if he wins or loses, lol.
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
Never trust a guy who takes a payday over relevance. Couldn't make it clearer just where his priorities are.
There's two kinds of egotists in sports, those who want to create a legacy for themselves as the best ever (say Cristiano Ronaldo or Lebron James) and those who are primarily driven by pursuit of material wealth. The former can help make a team champions if properly managed, the latter will always be a drain. Belgium has some key guys who seem to be far more concerned with their professional career and their own commercial potential than other stuff.
Maybe it is to do with the fact that it's difficult to be passionate about Belgium, it's maybe difficult to understand playing for Belgium as a thing to be proud of rather than just another team to play for. I know a few Belgians and there's definitely a weird dynamic that's very different from how French, Italians, Dutch or even Germans are with regards to their country.
- May 30, 2013
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KdB was worthless. No creativity whatever up the pitch and all of his strikes came from like 20 yards out.
Fellaini was Beligum's best player.
Yeah I remember the game vs. Italy and it wasn't a great performance as far as I remember. Maybe I didn't pay attention, but I thought "awful" was harsh. Maybe you're right
Savi
Registered User
Pretty spot on with everything. We don't have many guys who will do whatever it takes to win. If everyone on our team had the same kind of passion a guy like Nainggolan has, than we would have easily made it to the final.
The better part of our NT consists of a bunch of pretty boys wanting to look good for the cameras without having to work very hard or doing/saying anything controversial. But what do you expect when Kompany's your captain. You just have to check out this guy's twitter account, it reads like a 16 year old girl's tumblr page.
Belgians definitely have a weird dynamic. As I said before, we like the role of the underdog, but at the same time we're very cynical and always expect the worst. Thats how our football team has been throughout the years: no matter what happens, we'll probably lose anyway. But at the same time, in a weird way, that seemed to be our strength. "We suck, so we might as well do it together as a team!" and that way we were sometimes able to perform better than we should have
But now, we just have way too much talent for our own good.
They needed a Conté to give them some perspective. Kompany comes off as "country first", "give everything you have on the pitch", but it's just for show. Way too many players are laid back. It's crazy, but in fact it's true, only Nainggolan shows dedication and hard work on the pitch.
mmk786
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- Mar 3, 2004
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Fellaini really? He is only good for winning a few headers and elbowing ppl in the face.
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