Prospect Signing so far

[Brock]

After checking, the Panthers should be in a second round of bidding with Vancouver for Matt Kennedy.

My offer was 650,000 x 3 years. That's within the 20% of Vancouver's signing of him.

 

[Wildman]

After checking, the Panthers should be in a second round of bidding with Vancouver for Matt Kennedy.

My offer was 650,000 x 3 years. That's within the 20% of Vancouver's signing of him.

So was every other GM for other players...I am only doing 2nd round for one prospect because I messed up on Ville offer and the offer was very close to Vancouver.

 

[Brock]

So was every other GM for other players...I am only doing 2nd round for one prospect because I messed up on Ville offer and the offer was very close to Vancouver.

But, and Sean correct me if I'm wrong here, Kennedy was a 2nd priority for him, while he was a 1st priority for me.

So I'm confused as to why we wouldn't at least go to a lottery for him in that case? Or why he wouldn't choose my offer since it's a higher priority, thus demonstrating a greater desire for the player's services?

 

[Ohio Jones]

But, and Sean correct me if I'm wrong here, Kennedy was a 2nd priority for him, while he was a 1st priority for me.

So I'm confused as to why we wouldn't at least go to a lottery for him in that case? Or why he wouldn't choose my offer since it's a higher priority, thus demonstrating a greater desire for the player's services?

1) I seem to recall the margin for a player signing automatically with a team was 20% higher than all other bids (assuming it's an acceptable offer).

2) I also seem to recall the margin for a team getting into a second round of bidding on a player was within 10% of the highest offer.

3) In cases of contested prospect contracts, we have traditionally gone to a second round of bidding, where there was room to move between the high bids and the max. If we're foregoing that this year, I don't have a problem with it.

 

[Wildman]

But, and Sean correct me if I'm wrong here, Kennedy was a 2nd priority for him, while he was a 1st priority for me.

So I'm confused as to why we wouldn't at least go to a lottery for him in that case? Or why he wouldn't choose my offer since it's a higher priority, thus demonstrating a greater desire for the player's services?

The player in question is not someone who would make or break your team....if you really wanted him than you could have put the max and at least be considered for lottery. I can assure you that all the players you have signed had other offers within 20% range of your offer.

 

[Wildman]

1) I seem to recall the margin for a player signing automatically with a team was 20% higher than all other bids (assuming it's an acceptable offer).

2) I also seem to recall the margin for a team getting into a second round of bidding on a player was within 10% of the highest offer.

3) In cases of contested prospect contracts, we have traditionally gone to a second round of bidding, where there was room to move between the high bids and the max. If we're foregoing that this year, I don't have a problem with it.

Doug, it is just too much of a work to go over all 30 offers and do the 2d round...some spreadsheet had priority lines up from 1 - 20. I did not account for priority in case of prospect but took into consideration when it came to UFA/RFA. I think I treated everyone equally and fairly.

 

[HFNHL Commish]

Hasnain - please check my Excel sheet, as I believe there's a prospect at the bottom of my spreadsheet that should have been signed, given that I don't see his name anywhere else.

 

[Wildman]

Hasnain - please check my Excel sheet, as I believe there's a prospect at the bottom of my spreadsheet that should have been signed, given that I don't see his name anywhere else.

Okay, will check tonight.

 

[Brock]

The player in question is not someone who would make or break your team...

So, because he's a prospect and not Chris Drury, no need to have the free agent rules apply still?

f you really wanted him than you could have put the max and at least be considered for lottery. I can assure you that all the players you have signed had other offers within 20% range of your offer.

So if they had other offers within 20% of mine, shouldn't they have gone to a second round of bidding?

I'm just a little confused on the whole situation. And I'm not even largely effected by this because I didn't bid on anything significant. I'm more concerned about why the 20% and 10% rules aren't being applied and a second round of bidding is not occurring, as per the rules and as per the case in years past? A rule is a rule, why should it change depending on the level of player signing?

I'm also concerned about the priority thing. Why are priorities not being given weight here, especially with prospects. Again, it doesn't apply to me, but I see a lot of teams who are signing a ton of players who they didn't expect to because they were prioritized. I realize those teams with like 30 player long lists make things tough for you guys, and it's something we need to address in the future (like 5 priority list max), but it wasn't a rule put in place this year. If priorities were not being looked at, I'm sure a lot of GM's would have sent in their offers differently, or not at all to some players.

Just my two cents here.

 

[Brock]

Doug, it is just too much of a work to go over all 30 offers and do the 2d round...some spreadsheet had priority lines up from 1 - 20. I did not account for priority in case of prospect but took into consideration when it came to UFA/RFA. I think I treated everyone equally and fairly.

I understand the work involved Hasnain, trust me and I appreciate it (having done the draft the past two years). But why the need to rush it? If it's more work and it takes time to be done (because you're busy with work), why not take the time, take a month if it takes you that long, to do the 2nd round of bidding for anyone within that percentage range.

We're in the offseason, and I for one wouldn't complain at all if free agency took a month to finish because of the work involved.

 

[Ohio Jones]

Doug, it is just too much of a work to go over all 30 offers and do the 2d round...some spreadsheet had priority lines up from 1 - 20. I did not account for priority in case of prospect but took into consideration when it came to UFA/RFA. I think I treated everyone equally and fairly.

I agree, some of those submissions went waaaay overboard. That said, what I described is the way it's been done for many seasons now -- if we were going to change, that should have been communicated.

I think there might be a reasonable middle ground, since you're right that most players will look to the first few strong offers they receive.
I'm concerned, though, at the suggestion that prospect signings aren't as important (and therefore not worthy of the time) as established NHLers. It just seems a bit out of sync with the realities of the NHL - and HFNHL - where securing young talent capable of playing the game to a reasonable contract for multiple years is crucial in helping teams manage their cap situation.

My $0.02. At the end of the day, nobody's gtting paid to figure this stuff out, so I can't really complain at the substantial effort being put forward.

 

[Ville Isopaa]

I totally agree with everything Brock is saying. We have what 2 months until the season starts, so there's no need to get the FA's done in 2-3 days, if it means cutting corners and changing rules to make it quicker.

There's a reason we have priority in the offers. It is to avoid the "Dion-style" offers of 20 no.1 priority offers. With the way the priority bids are being treated, next year we'll have no priority and just 30 gm's bidding on 20 players each. If I knew that only no.1 priority bids count, then all my offers would have been no.1 in priority.

I also think the deadline for 2nd round bids is way too short. Add a week to it and set the 2nd round date from when the full 1st round has finished.

 

[MatthewFlames]

Doug, it is just too much of a work to go over all 30 offers and do the 2d round...some spreadsheet had priority lines up from 1 - 20. I did not account for priority in case of prospect but took into consideration when it came to UFA/RFA. I think I treated everyone equally and fairly.

I don't that anyone is arguing the question of fairness, nor are they begrudging the work or effort, or the amount of work that might be needed to be done to have a 2nd round of bidding.

I think the big issue is that it seems to be a changing of the rules after the process has started which has left some GM's missing out on players they would have happily bid on a 2nd time, even to the max, but decided to show fiscal prudence by bidding lower, but within a margin that they estimated other GM's would bid.

I certainly did that with someone like Paul Crowder, at 650K. Vancouver bid 750K. I might be happy to go to 850K and might reasonably expect to given our rules. So I think that's where the problem lies.

 

[Wildman]

I don't that anyone is arguing the question of fairness, nor are they begrudging the work or effort, or the amount of work that might be needed to be done to have a 2nd round of bidding.

I think the big issue is that it seems to be a changing of the rules after the process has started which has left some GM's missing out on players they would have happily bid on a 2nd time, even to the max, but decided to show fiscal prudence by bidding lower, but within a margin that they estimated other GM's would bid.

I certainly did that with someone like Paul Crowder, at 650K. Vancouver bid 750K. I might be happy to go to 850K and might reasonably expect to given our rules. So I think that's where the problem lies.

I guess you are right....I personally don't think can do this...is there any volunteer and I can forward all the emails to that person. I think it is wise that we do the UFA and RFA as well.

 

[Hossa]

I don't that anyone is arguing the question of fairness, nor are they begrudging the work or effort, or the amount of work that might be needed to be done to have a 2nd round of bidding.

I think the big issue is that it seems to be a changing of the rules after the process has started which has left some GM's missing out on players they would have happily bid on a 2nd time, even to the max, but decided to show fiscal prudence by bidding lower, but within a margin that they estimated other GM's would bid.

I certainly did that with someone like Paul Crowder, at 650K. Vancouver bid 750K. I might be happy to go to 850K and might reasonably expect to given our rules. So I think that's where the problem lies.

These are my sentiments as well. I don't think anybody feels personally slighted by the approach here, because there's no reason to suggest the rules were shifted to the intentional benefit or detriment of anybody. That being said, the rules seem to have shifted since they were posted. Priority no longer applies, nor does second-round bidding. The reason for that decision is valid, but we had ample time to be warned. If the rules were to be changed, they should have been changed in advance and with fair notice to GMs.

The issue that stands out is roster numbers. Certain teams obviously bid on more players than they are able to accommodate, but they staggered or prioritized their lists accordingly. While ignoring that may expedite the process of sorting through the offers, it has potentially opened a new administrative necessity which is teams clearing roster space before the season starts.

If the agents are concerned with excessive lists, likely a compeletely valid and understandable concern, I see two simple solutions that could help individually or in tandem. First, cap the length of priority lists at a certain number. For example, state no priority list (in general, or for certain types of free agents) can exceed 3, or 5, whatever it may be. Second, delegate responsibility for prospect free agents to a second individual. If it really is moreso an administrative task than a management one (ie. sorting out the Gustavssons and Crowders is not about making a subjective decision but simply objective organization), this seems entirely possible considering the wealth of helpful GMs we have.

I'm sure there are other possible methods for improving the prospect signings system, but they don't seem to have been considered. I appreciate that all GMs are in the same position here so whatever the resolution is I am content to abide by, but if the process needs changing, we can accomplish that easily and well in advance of offers being submitted next year.

 

[MatthewFlames]

I guess you are right....I personally don't think can do this...is there any volunteer and I can forward all the emails to that person. I think it is wise that we do the UFA and RFA as well.

Yes of course. Send the prospects over to me (if there are no objections of course) and I can take it on. And I agree we treat the UFA/RFA the same, even if we have to look at some of the signings already in place.

 

[Brock]

I don't that anyone is arguing the question of fairness, nor are they begrudging the work or effort, or the amount of work that might be needed to be done to have a 2nd round of bidding.

Exactly. No one is begrudging the work or effort here. We realize it is extreme.

It's a criticism of the process of what's happening here, not the person taking the time to do it.

 

[Wildman]

Yes of course. Send the prospects over to me (if there are no objections of course) and I can take it on. And I agree we treat the UFA/RFA the same, even if we have to look at some of the signings already in place.

Okay will send it to you tonight...any volunteer for UFA/RFA?

 

[Dryden]

I never understood the rush to get thru free agency. Most likely we won't start the season till December anyhow. So what's the rush

 

[Ville Isopaa]

I could do the UFA and RFA, if there are no other volunteers.

 

[MatthewFlames]

I never understood the rush to get thru free agency. Most likely we won't start the season till December anyhow. So what's the rush

Not this year But we still don't have to rush this process.

 

[Wildman]

Matt and Ville...sent you all the emails...all 29 of them. Let me know if you are missing any.

 

[Default101]

I also could do some of them.. i have alot of free time over the next 2-3 days becasue of hours being cut down.. so i could do quite a bit if you can send it over unless it's all being taken care of already?

and i'm pretty good with numbers lol

 

[Ohio Jones]

Appreciate all the work so far, Hasnain, and the assistance of those stepping forward to help.

So help me God, we're going to start the season in October come hell or high water.

 

[MatthewFlames]

So help me God, we're going to start the season in October come hell or high water.

Amen to all the various Gods & Goddesses, or the one and only God, or to any pagan ancestors or... something - anything

Actually, I've done a whole bunch of work already but you just can't see it because there is a problem with the hfnhl ftp at the moment.

All the draft picks are in (thanks Sean & Claudio for their help). All the trades are updated. All the free agent signings prior to this free agency are done.

I've conducted another round of testing of the new sim.

Once we're done free agency, within the next three weeks say, we'll know which sim we're going with and we'll work out ratings. I'm not shooting until the middle of September on anything so I have the time to keep plowing things.

So, late October seem reasonable, if we don't have any hiccups.