News Article: Pronman's top 150 that are U23

[JD1]

So Pronman has a list out of the top 150 players under U23. The ranking is his assessment of career achievement. There's a main board thread on it

Rangers and Devils have 9. Us and the Kings have 8. I didn't compare relative rankings, but of our 8, 7 are in the top 59 and 2 are in the top 15. (Chabot aged out of the list )

On the other end, the Pens and TB have 1 and the Bruins and Caps have 2.

Here's the article for anyone interested
Ranking the best NHL players under 23: Corey Pronman's top 155

Pronman opinions aside, it's looking like a turnover is underway. Not a good situation for the Pens, Bs and Caps with really aging cores and thin cupboards

Good situation for the top 4 and with us having 7 of the top 59, perhaps the best.

Some guys say 3 to 5 years to make the playoffs

Thoughts on how long the turnover takes?

Click to read more...

 

[BoardsofCanada]

I disagree with Jack Hughes at 8 over players like Cale Makar, Miro Heiskanen and his brother Quinn Hughes. I would also have Nick Suzuki ahead of Jack Hughes.

Logan Brown should have made the list! But Pronman did give Ottawa some respect. Greig made it right at the end coming in at 153.

 

[thesensguy]

I think we’re a playoff team in 2 years. We should have a solid top 6 between Batherson, White, Tkatchuk, Stutzle, Norris, Dadonov, L.Brown, Formenton, Pinto even if a few flame out. We should have a solid 3rd line from the remaining players, new additions and C. Brown. Defence is awful right now but we have 1 top pairing level prospect in Sanderson, 2 top 4 D level prospects in Brannstrom and JBD. Could definitely use another good D prospect or package some of our players for an upgrade on D. If I had to bet on it, I think were a playoff team in 2022-2023, with a 50/50 chance in 2021-2022 and almost zero chance in 2020-2021.

 

[Cosmix]

I think we’re a playoff team in 2 years. We should have a solid top 6 between Batherson, White, Tkatchuk, Stutzle, Norris, Dadonov, L.Brown, Formenton, Pinto even if a few flame out. We should have a solid 3rd line from the remaining players, new additions and C. Brown. Defence is awful right now but we have 1 top pairing level prospect in Sanderson, 2 top 4 D level prospects in Brannstrom and JBD. Could definitely use another good D prospect or package some of our players for an upgrade on D. If I had to bet on it, I think were a playoff team in 2022-2023, with a 50/50 chance in 2021-2022 and almost zero chance in 2020-2021.

I think playoffs are not likely until 2022-23 or 2023-24. It will take time for our young new prospects to mature and develop. As for being a true contender to win the SC, I see a possibility after 2023-24 if our new young prospects develop into very good players.

 

[Xspyrit]

Ridly Greig is not even top-10 in our pool and he's making Pronman top-155 of U-23 players? lol that's funny

Also, some of these guys are 23 y/o already... In that case, Chabot should be there as well

=============================

It's impossible to say playoffs or no playoffs before which season. There is way too many factors involved, including how other teams progress or regress

Sens were supposed to suck in 2011-12 and 2012-13, people in 2011 were saying how they would be bottom dwellers for a long time. Somewhat similar after not making the playoffs in 2013-14 but Stone, Pageau and Hoffman arrived in 2014-15.

If just a few in our crazy prospect pool (Stutzle, Sanderson, Norris, Batherson, Formenton, JBD +++) become good and join Chabot and Tkachuk, this team could become really good real fast.

I think we'll see a real progress starting next season and then they should be in contention for a playoff spot the following year. If the youth progressed enough until then, they will make them.

The rebuild was very painful as you should never have to say goodbye to your core players in their 20's but at least Dorion did a really great job of assembling a U-25 pipeline with amazing potential.

 

[playasRus]

Next year, his list will be top 150 U24. Guess why?

 

[JD1]

Next year, his list will be top 150 U24. Guess why?

Matthews

 

[JD1]

Ridly Greig is not even top-10 in our pool and he's making Pronman top-155 of U-23 players? lol that's funny

Also, some of these guys are 23 y/o already... In that case, Chabot should be there as well

=============================

It's impossible to say playoffs or no playoffs before which season. There is way too many factors involved, including how other teams progress or regress

Sens were supposed to suck in 2011-12 and 2012-13, people in 2011 were saying how they would be bottom dwellers for a long time. Somewhat similar after not making the playoffs in 2013-14 but Stone, Pageau and Hoffman arrived in 2014-15.

If just a few in our crazy prospect pool (Stutzle, Sanderson, Norris, Batherson, Formenton, JBD +++) become good and join Chabot and Tkachuk, this team could become really good real fast.

I think we'll see a real progress starting next season and then they should be in contention for a playoff spot the following year. If the youth progressed enough until then, they will make them.

The rebuild was very painful as you should never have to say goodbye to your core players in their 20's but at least Dorion did a really great job of assembling a U-25 pipeline with amazing potential.

I don't follow prospect hockey close enough to understand why you think Ridley Greig might be funny. Please explain

Re the difference between this and next, i always find that confusing

Is your definition of next this upcoming season? If so, i agree with that, we're going to see progress

But if by next you mean the season after this upcoming season ... what then do you see this season?

 

[SensFan1010]

Can someone post where our other prospects rank in his list?

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Can someone post where our other prospects rank in his list?

12 Brady Tkachuk
15 Tim Stutzle
36 Josh Norris
40 Alex Formenton
42 Drake Batherson
58 Jake Sanderson
59 Erik Brannstrom
153 Ridley Grieg

 

[Micklebot]

12 Brady Tkachuk
15 Tim Stutzle
36 Josh Norris
40 Alex Formenton
42 Drake Batherson
58 Jake Sanderson
59 Erik Brannstrom
153 Ridley Grieg

Sanderson one spot ahead of Brannstrom is pretty crazy imo. Heck, not having him in the top 3 of Ottawa players is nuts.

 

[SensFan1010]

12 Brady Tkachuk
15 Tim Stutzle
36 Josh Norris
40 Alex Formenton
42 Drake Batherson
58 Jake Sanderson
59 Erik Brannstrom
153 Ridley Grieg

I would say the head scratchers are Sanderson so low and Formenton ahead of Batherson

Also Logan not cracking the list?

 

[JD1]

Sanderson one spot ahead of Brannstrom is pretty crazy imo. Heck, not having him in the top 3 of Ottawa players is nuts.

It is a career accomplishment listing. ..it'a difficult to question this guy or that should be higher

My takeaway from the list is we have 7 guys in top 59 plus Chabot ... where's that likely to lead over the next 5 to 7 years?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think Grieg will have a great D+1 year (when ever that may be). He is young in the 2020 class and finished the shortened season really strong. He'll be a little bigger and stronger which will help his game. Overall I think he has our top 6 right. .. the order could be quibbled with.

 

[jhutter]

If it takes 5 years from now to make the playoffs, this is a poor rebuild. It’s already been 3 years, and more than half of the teams make the playoffs (although that’ll just to exactly half when Seattle comes).

 

[BankStreetParade]

If it takes 5 years from now to make the playoffs, this is a poor rebuild. It’s already been 3 years, and more than half of the teams make the playoffs (although that’ll just to exactly half when Seattle comes).

The rebuild started 2 years ago. Just because we bottomed out unexpectedly the year after we went to the ECF doesn't mean the rebuild started then.

 

[Xspyrit]

I don't follow prospect hockey close enough to understand why you think Ridley Greig might be funny. Please explain

Re the difference between this and next, i always find that confusing

Is your definition of next this upcoming season? If so, i agree with that, we're going to see progress

But if by next you mean the season after this upcoming season ... what then do you see this season?

Please refer to the rankings we are voting on. What is funny is that he seems to be much higher on Greig than Logan Brown, Jacob Bernard-Docker and Shane Pinto (and even Balcers and Thomson). I mean, that's completely his right but it's a bit outlandish at the moment since the guy just got drafted late in the first and hasn't even played 1 pro hockey game. I mean as soon as next year it could look like it was a good "prediction" but should he be ranked above these prospects at this point?

These guys are more developped and have solid track records. Brown and Balcers have an history of solid production in the pros and have very good skill-sets. JBD and Pinto have really progressed well in College and looked pretty good in the WJC. Thomson is a recent 1st round pick (19th OA) but has question marks and is still far from the NHL so this one is ok.

This is how I see it (including Chabot as he is 23 like Matthews, who is Pronman's N.1)

Tim Stutzle
Thomas Chabot
Brady Tkachuk
Jake Sanderson
Josh Norris
Drake Batherson
Erik Brannstrom/Alex Formenton/Logan Brown
Ridley Grieg/Rudolf Balcers/Lassi Thomson/Roby Jarventie/Mads Sogaard +++

The rebuild started 2 years ago. Just because we bottomed out unexpectedly the year after we went to the ECF doesn't mean the rebuild started then.

Yeah it started with Brassard and Phaneuf being traded at the 2018 deadline (and then the rebuild became major when EK was traded for futures in September 2018). So basically only 2 seasons have been played since.

It looks like it has been longer because of the pandemic and we should be in our 3rd season right now.

This rebuild will be much shorter than an usual rebuild because we traded stars in their prime (all under 30) so we got great pieces as a result (and already a very good pool).

 

[JD1]

Please refer to the rankings we are voting on. What is funny is that he seems to be much higher on Greig than Logan Brown, Jacob Bernard-Docker and Shane Pinto (and even Balcers and Thomson). I mean, that's completely his right but it's a bit outlandish at the moment since the guy just got drafted late in the first and hasn't even played 1 pro hockey game. I mean as soon as next year it could look like it was a good "prediction" but should he be ranked above these prospects at this point?

These guys are more developped and have solid track records. Brown and Balcers have an history of solid production in the pros and have very good skill-sets. JBD and Pinto have really progressed well in College and looked pretty good in the WJC. Thomson is a recent 1st round pick (19th OA) but has question marks and is still far from the NHL so this one is ok.

This is how I see it (including Chabot as he is 23 like Matthews, who is Pronman's N.1)

Tim Stutzle
Thomas Chabot
Brady Tkachuk
Jake Sanderson
Josh Norris
Drake Batherson
Erik Brannstrom/Alex Formenton/Logan Brown
Ridley Grieg/Rudolf Balcers/Lassi Thomson/Roby Jarventie/Mads Sogaard +++



Yeah it started with Brassard and Phaneuf being traded at the 2018 deadline (and then the rebuild became major when EK was traded for futures in September 2018). So basically only 2 seasons have been played since.

It looks like it has been longer because of the pandemic and we should be in our 3rd season right now.

I think you are completely missing the point of Pronman's article

He is listing the top 155 guys under 23 that he expects will have the best career

With a guy like Brown not being on his list, he's saying he expects Greig to have a better career

In the immediate term, certainly Brown is more ready to contribute

 

[Masked]

Pronman's a hack. Not much to see here. If I want bad takes on our prospects I can ask a random Leaf fan instead of paying The Athletic for this shmuck's bad takes.

 

[Xspyrit]

I think you are completely missing the point of Pronman's article

He is listing the top 155 guys under 23 that he expects will have the best career

With a guy like Brown not being on his list, he's saying he expects Greig to have a better career

In the immediate term, certainly Brown is more ready to contribute

lol

Athletic’s Corey Pronman ranks his top U-23 players


I wrote that last night... How can I explain it in a simply manner to make you understand? The text surely didn't work

I KNOW it's his careers projection and LIKE I SAID, it's completely his RIGHT. I am just saying that at the moment, it doesn't look like Greig will end up better. He will need to put himself on a even better career trajectory than Brown/Pinto/JBD and even Balcers. Time is certainly on his side but it means Pronman sees a BOOM prospect.

Did you really read my post before quoting me? I thought it was clear enough

I also said "as soon as next year it could look like it was a good prediction"

Like I said, he totally has every right to make these calls. He seems to be much higher on Greig than everyone else. I never said he can't end up being right

PS : you didn't leave me the time to answer your other question

By next season, I mean the upcoming season. It should be started right now but covid

 

[Answer]

The rebuild started 2 years ago. Just because we bottomed out unexpectedly the year after we went to the ECF doesn't mean the rebuild started then.

In 5 years from now all our young players will be old or worse gone

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

In 5 years from now all our young players will be old or worse gone

Your name should be Wrong Answer

 

[BankStreetParade]

In 5 years from now all our young players will be old or worse gone

????????

 

[JD1]

These guys are more developped and have solid track records. Brown and Balcers have an history of solid production in the pros and have very good skill-sets.

This is why i think you are missing his point, notwithstanding you typed out what his point is.

It's a career projection but you seem to be disputing it based on current development

It's fine to dispute it, it's your rationale for disputing it that says to me you're not getting it

As an example
Take a math prof. He taught a student for 4 years that has graduated and has 2 years experience under their belt. But there's a freshmanthat he teaches that is mathematically brilliant. Asked which has the brightest future, answering the graduate and attributing it to the more currently polished resume is the wrong reason for validating your choice.

That's kinda what you're doing

 

[JD1]

Your name should be Wrong Answer

Reminds me of university and a guy with the last name Friends. His nickname was Hasno