Profitable teams in KHL

[tobu]

I am curious about what teams in KHL can we consider profitable, as in financially not bleeding today?

SKA, Slovan, Dinamo Riga, Dynamo Moscow, Donbass, Severstal, Ak Bars, Avangard ?

Who is bleeding? Vityaz, Avtomobilist?

Do teams release this information?

Click to read more...

 

[Pominville Knows]

How does it work in soccer when it comes to big-guns taking over a team like for example Chelsea? I take for granted that many of those owners does not view having a sport team as their main way of becoming richer, it's not about that. But i think it's an important aspect here becouse maybe it's simply not always very important if teams under the wings of a multi-billionarie, or Gazprom for that matter, makes money for the moment or not. It would be nice i am sure and it is a goal to go at least +/- zero, but maybe it's the vision for the future that is most important here. Besides, both Russia and many other eastern european countries are on longterm great economic upswing, and everybody hopes that this will solve the bottom line sooner or later.

 

[ozo]

Not sure where Slovan got their money for a KHL level budget, but no other team in the league is profitable or even close to it. Every team, depending on a budget, probably burns minimum 10+ millions per year, so they all are bleeding so to speak. But as Darth Yoda already explained, currently teams doesn't even try to live within their means. This thread probably has no legs, but lets keep it open, maybe someone adds something interesting.

Also would love to see reasoning how tobu chose these exact teams he listed in the opening post.

 

[tobu]

Slovan had a 10million Euro budget last season. All games were sold out, which at the average ticket price of 30euro (highest in KHL) I estimate a revenue of 8 to 8,5 million in only ticket sales. The ticket price average is a rough guess, as tickets were sold in auction for over half of the season and some games averaged at a price of over 40. Add the VIP lounges which are purchased for the season by companies for the full season, that could be at least 2 million if not more. So here were are with the budget covered by only ticket sales. I'm sure the team has sponsors and merchandize sale as well, but I did not count that into my assessment. But with only ticketsales revenue Slovan managed to cover the budget.

 

[Spektanto]

If I get the things right, Dinamo Riga is a profitable club.

http://www.sports.ru/hockey/150860774.html
The 2012 year profit of Dinamo Riga is about 50k euro

 

[alko]

i dont think, that Slovan is profitable. Every team in KHL (ok, Riga is a special case) isnt. They dont have the backround to be in profit.

NHL teams can have ticket prices for 100, 200 and even more USD per game. In KHL it is impossible.

 

[tobu]

i dont think, that Slovan is profitable. Every team in KHL (ok, Riga is a special case) isnt. They dont have the backround to be in profit.

NHL teams can have ticket prices for 100, 200 and even more USD per game. In KHL it is impossible.

Do the math like I did. The budget was 10 million, there were 26 home games with average ticket price of 25-30 euros. Sell out of 10500, That's a revenue range of 6,8 million to 8,2 million from tickets only. Add the revenue from the VIP lounges, and add the sponsors. I'm sure Slovan managed to be at a margin.

 

[Jussi]

If I get the things right, Dinamo Riga is a profitable club.

http://www.sports.ru/hockey/150860774.html
The 2012 year profit of Dinamo Riga is about 50k euro

How much of that was due to player sales?

 

[ozo]

If I get the things right, Dinamo Riga is a profitable club.

http://www.sports.ru/hockey/150860774.html
The 2012 year profit of Dinamo Riga is about 50k euro

You didn't get things right or that article mislead you. Dinamo Riga simply didn't spend 50K they were assigned to by sponsors. Leftover would be a much better word.

 

[pulverapa]

The KHL is a mystery... What's the deal? Will things last forever?

 

[ozo]

The KHL is a mystery... What's the deal? Will things last forever?

Care to elaborate why KHL is a mystery? When you see how passionate about hockey are the rich people behind most KHL powerhouses everything is very, very logical. And forever is too too strong of a word to predict anything, but how things stand it looks like near future for league looks set.

 

[Flukeshot]

Won't the lack of profit make Western expansion more difficult as most other teams in the other elite leagues are concerned about it.

 

[Jussi]

Won't the lack of profit make Western expansion more difficult as most other teams in the other elite leagues are concerned about it.

Exactly. If the teams are supposed to get by with domestic sponsoring, they won't cover any losses and have limits to how much they can sponsor.

 

[Pominville Knows]

Exactly. If the teams are supposed to get by with domestic sponsoring, they won't cover any losses and have limits to how much they can sponsor.

I dont really understand this. If there are NHL teams in cities and areas smaller than some possible destinations for western expansion, why cant a team within a couple of years gather enough funds for say half of an NHL teams budget? It's all about getting more and more fans involved in countries just as rich as the US and Canada, and then if everything goes as planned start to really challenge the NHL. Of course we can do it, if we just start looking at things at a euro-asian level instead of by country.

 

[alko]

Do the math like I did. The budget was 10 million, there were 26 home games with average ticket price of 25-30 euros. Sell out of 10500, That's a revenue range of 6,8 million to 8,2 million from tickets only. Add the revenue from the VIP lounges, and add the sponsors. I'm sure Slovan managed to be at a margin.

Ok, And now imagine the difference between 6,8 AND 8,2 millions. It is 1 400 000 €.
Now lets say, we take 7 500 000 €. Its still in your range. To 10 millions we need 2 500 000 €.
Do you really think, that Slovan Bratislava has such great supporters, they buy t-shirts and hockey souvenirs for 2 MILIONS €? I dont think so.

And not all season 2012/2013 was with this prices. At the beginning was it only for 10 € (basic ticket).

And other. GM Maros Krajci said, that if the team dont want to loose money for ice rink, it must be full in the house. Only for ice rink for one game.

 

[Pominville Knows]

And other. GM Maros Krajci said, that if the team dont want to loose money for ice rink, it must be full in the house. Only for ice rink for one game.

What do you mean, that the rent for one night there with KHL hockey costs as much as the admissions give? Hell, if that's the case someone really needs to buy that arena. Or wait til people gets more crazy/richer so that they can pay more of course. When was it he said this anyway, before or after ticket prizes went up by a real deal?
Edit: It should be said though that taking more for tickets is pretty far from the only and perhaps most effective way of expanding revenues. Sure they can go up to what the market says it should be but of course there are many other things that also can be done to expand revenue. I mean, there are many NHL teams whose cheapest tickets are like Slovans or perhaps even cheaper.

 

[Jussi]

I dont really understand this. If there are NHL teams in cities and areas smaller than some possible destinations for western expansion, why cant a team within a couple of years gather enough funds for say half of an NHL teams budget? It's all about getting more and more fans involved in countries just as rich as the US and Canada, and then if everything goes as planned start to really challenge the NHL. Of course we can do it, if we just start looking at things at a euro-asian level instead of by country.

You need to take a look at the sizes of countries and the economic situations in them. E.g. it's not reasonable to expect Jokerit to gather quite the kind sponsorship Harkimo is expecting. Every business in Finland is on a strict budget these days.

 

[Jussi]

What do you mean, that the rent for one night there with KHL hockey costs as much as the admissions give? Hell, if that's the case someone really needs to buy that arena. Or wait til people gets more crazy/richer so that they can pay more of course. When was it he said this anyway, before or after ticket prizes went up by a real deal?
Edit: It should be said though that taking more for tickets is pretty far from the only and perhaps most effective way of expanding revenues. Sure they can go up to what the market says it should be but of course there are many other things that also can be done to expand revenue. I mean, there are many NHL teams whose cheapest tickets are like Slovans or perhaps even cheaper.

You can't make a direct comparison with NHL, tv deal revenues allow a lot of leeway in some cities, not to mention playing in a bigger arena and in most cases the arena being owned by the team's owner

 

[Jonimaus]

I dont really understand this. If there are NHL teams in cities and areas smaller than some possible destinations for western expansion, why cant a team within a couple of years gather enough funds for say half of an NHL teams budget? It's all about getting more and more fans involved in countries just as rich as the US and Canada, and then if everything goes as planned start to really challenge the NHL. Of course we can do it, if we just start looking at things at a euro-asian level instead of by country.

It has little to do with that. USA has terrible economy, more than half the countries in europe is richer than the US, especially compared to the nordic countries. US sports lives on its population. and because of that sponsorships are worth so much more.

 

[Pominville Knows]

It has little to do with that. USA has terrible economy, more than half the countries in europe is richer than the US, especially compared to the nordic countries. US sports lives on its population. and because of that sponsorships are worth so much more.

Yeah well what can i tell you. Even not counting non-hockey playing countries in europe we are right up there with north america in terms of population. Just a matter of time letting the US sink economically while Russia and other eastern european countries catches up. Obviously western europe are as you say just as rich as NA, which is one reason that the KHL is interested obviously. If Pittsburgh can carry a team, then Sweden can. Play most of the games in Stockholm, and a few in Gothenburg and Malmö, let people be willing to pay top dollars for the fiew games that is played in their citys. This is obviously some kind of long term plan.

 

[fedfed]

European teams may be profitable because they don't need to pay players nearly as much. Pretty much every European player will take $500k in Helsinki over $1.5M in Omsk.

KHL's Jokerit plan seems to be simple: pay the club money that you will never ever get back whatsoever, while cashing in on the other events in the arena. In other words, $12M payroll of Jokerit will never bring back any profit; concerts, sales at the arena will.

 

[Jussi]

European teams may be profitable because they don't need to pay players nearly as much. Pretty much every European player will take $500k in Helsinki over $1.5M in Omsk.

KHL's Jokerit plan seems to be simple: pay the club money that you will never ever get back whatsoever, while cashing in on the other events in the arena. In other words, $12M payroll of Jokerit will never bring back any profit; concerts, sales at the arena will.

Note that a lot of that would be gone with high taxes.

 

[Jussi]

Yeah well what can i tell you. Even not counting non-hockey playing countries in europe we are right up there with north america in terms of population. Just a matter of time letting the US sink economically while Russia and other eastern european countries catches up. Obviously western europe are as you say just as rich as NA, which is one reason that the KHL is interested obviously. If Pittsburgh can carry a team, then Sweden can. Play most of the games in Stockholm, and a few in Gothenburg and Malmö, let people be willing to pay top dollars for the fiew games that is played in their citys. This is obviously some kind of long term plan.

It's not sinking anywhere, you need to haul your ass over to the Political Discussion board, amidst the Tea Bagger troll threads, you should be able to find some economic related threads or posters who could enlighten you(unless you can't find it from Google).

 

[Pominville Knows]

It's not sinking anywhere, you need to haul your ass over to the Political Discussion board, amidst the Tea Bagger troll threads, you should be able to find some economic related threads or posters who could enlighten you(unless you can't find it from Google).

Sinking is certainly a relative term here.

 

[metmag]

Almost all MLS teams operate at losses. I think there are only three profitable teams(maybe less), and yet the league is still expanding. Nevertheless I have a great time cheering for the Vancouver Whitecaps.
I do not see how this situation is dissimilar from the KHL.