Post-Game Talk: Preseason Game #9 wasn’t a very good one

[CycloneSweep]

Do you think Bjugstad is the difference between an elite team and a good team?
You're making too much about the depth they lost. I never said that you said the Oilers are a bad team, I'm saying that you're overreacting to the amount of depth the team lost.

Yes I do. I’m not overreacting. The difference between the good/great teams and an elite team IS depth. Always has been. We could get there after the deadline for sure but right now we aren’t an elite team. I don’t know how that’s controversial or negative. And Holloway may be on the team now but Kostin is still a depth loss we haven’t replaced. If Kostin goes down, we had Holloway. Now if someone goes down the next guy up is what, Lavoie or Malone?
Organizational depth is what makes the elite teams elite. Losing that depth hurts the org and prevents them from truly being great.

Vegas last year for example, starter goalie was out for the year and they had depth and traded for depth at that position to keep the team going. We simply don’t have that depth at any position, and that prevents teams from being elite for a whole season unless they pull a Calgary and have a zero injury year.

 

[Lacaar]

For long time Oilers fans it was an interesting reverse on have vs have nots. Our fans here know many times where the team here were underdogs and had to go up against juggernaut lineups and just outworked them and won going away. Its easy to respect the hardworking club that got the win vs the supremely talented team that was blown up.

I was just so envious that there was a team out there playing and committing to a working system. Envious as well how well coached the Nucks are now. They played a smart tidy game and with limited resources and beat a team that they shouldn't on paper. Not just beating them but annihilating them.

Good point. I admittedly am not used to cheering for a team as skilled as this one. We've had skilled players, but not a complete skilled team like this since the 80's.

It's likely why I hold the late 90's and early 2000's teams so dear to my heart. Those guys worked and poured their hearts and souls into the games.

Oddly enough I think that may be the only thing missing from this team. They can't put their hearts and souls into the game until a measure of embarrassment or urgency is generated. Historically they do this in the playoffs by coughing up a game. In the season it's by being a quote "Back half hockey team"

They can't emotionally invest themselves into the game knowing they're on even footing or something like that. It's the comeback kid mentality. It's entertaining to a point even I admit. The issue really comes playoff time like I've harped over and over again. Because eventually they'll run into a team they can't beat after giving the first game away for free.

 

[CupofOil]

Yes I do. I’m not overreacting. The difference between the good/great teams and an elite team IS depth. Always has been. We could get there after the deadline for sure but right now we aren’t an elite team. I don’t know how that’s controversial or negative.

So you think losing Bjugstad, going from Yamamoto to Brown and Kostin to Holloway knocks them out of the elite to just being a good team?
They also didn't have Ekholm to start last season if we're looking at the rosters at this point in the respective seasons.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's the same depth that they started last year with swapping out Brown for Yamamoto and Kostin for a more seasoned Holloway in a bigger role.

I don't know why you're painting a strawman of me saying that Brown was some sort of All Star.. What I said is that Brown will be a big upgrade on Yamamoto and be like a Hyman-lite, don't twist my words into something else.

This is what most contending clubs do in the offseason. They generally stand pat, shuffle deck chairs because they inevitably lose players or just lose guys. Look at every other contender and this offseason and you'll see what I mean.

Yes, they need to replace Bjugstad but that will be a deadline move just like they did last year. In the meantime, I'm pretty sure the team can navigate the regular season without Nick Bjugstad lol.

Team didn't address D, didn't address goaltending, and really we probably needed to move out the now disaster Nurse contract. Our D is plain ugly. Ceci has been bad for a long time, Kulak has looked increasingly bad. We got scrubs like Desharnais trying to add in minutes. We got no improvement in goaltending. Lots of teams improved goaltending. Oilers asleep at the switch.

Not sure either how you can say Holloway will get a much bigger role when we don't know it to be the case. But still you have to consider its odd for you to count him as an addition.

The offseason was very quiet. We still have critical deficits that were not addressed. I think we even got worse in serviceable depth. Doesn't help either that nobody made the team out of camp.

Lets be clear here too. Our one big add of the offseason was -2 and played like shit in game 1. Didn't see much 200ft game in there either and for a guy that is career - where is this notion he's some stellar 200ft dynamo?

 

[Dirk Dangler]

Broberg is such a frustrating player. You hardly ever notice the guy. He doesn't defend that well, he's not very physical, he doesn't create any offence, he's just kind of there. I don't know what the plan is with him lol

Right. Like he will likely be a solid defender when he’s 27/28. I just don’t think the team can wait for him. Trade bait for someone more suited to help now.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Am I the only one that thinks there's something wrong with the way this team and it's core leadership has a dip your toe in the water approach to how they approach the game of hockey?

I mentioned this on like the 6TH page actually lol

this "leadership" has some issues at times...whenever there's a big moment they're afraid to seize it, like you mentioned all those Game 1s

last season opener they went down 3-0 to the Canucks and were lucky to make a comeback in that game

 

[CycloneSweep]

So you think losing Bjugstad, going from Yamamoto to Brown and Kostin to Holloway knocks them out of the elite to just being a good team?
They also didn't have Ekholm to start last season if we're looking at the rosters at this point in the respective seasons.

Yes for 21 games we were an elite team last year fully healthy with a deeper forward group. I am comparing when our team was elite to today and our current team is worse. How much, I won’t let game 1 sway me, but worse. Could we be an elite team again? Close maybe, but we aren’t there.
This team could be an elite regular season team but they are not built to be an elite or great playoff team.

I mentioned this on like the 3rd page actually lol

this "leadership" has some issues at times...whenever there's a big moment they're afraid to seize it, like you mentioned all those Game 1s

last season opener they went down 3-0 to the Canucks and were lucky to make a comeback in that game

Or Game 1 in the Calgary series. Thankfully Calgary got cocky and entirely employed from there but they just. I don’t know.

They don’t seem to handle pressure well, it’s like they almost procrastinate hockey games and then need come backs which like, they must be absolutely draining. Hockey takes far less energy to hold a lead than it does to catch up. This team plays catchup a ton and I think it’s a huge reason for our playoff series when we go up against good opponents. We are exhausted by then. The team doesn’t make it easy on themselves.

 

[CupofOil]

Team didn't address D, didn't address goaltending, and really we probably needed to move out the now disaster Nurse contract. Our D is plain ugly. Ceci has been bad for a long time, Kulak has looked increasingly bad. We got scrubs like Desharnais trying to add in minutes. We got no improvement in goaltending. Lots of teams improved goaltending. Oilers asleep at the switch.

Not sure either how you can say Holloway will get a much bigger role when we don't know it to be the case. But still you have to consider its odd for you to count him as an addition.

The offseason was very quiet. We still have critical deficits that were not addressed. I think we even got worse in serviceable depth. Doesn't help either that nobody made the team out of camp.

We're talking about forward depth and you're bringing up the defense. I said already that the defense is an issue and have said on multiple occasions that they'll never win a Cup with the right side D as is.

I can say that Holloway will get a bigger role because,.... Holloway has actually gotten a bigger role playing on a 3rd line now. Holloway didn't play in the playoffs so, yes, he's an addition.

It has to be stated again that the team that starts the season won't be the team that enters the playoffs. Unless you think the team as is isn't playoff good then we'll just have to wait for the deadline to see what additions are made. I remember all the grumbling around here and the lolzHolland memes prior to the Ekholm addition, it was a real chore to post here around that time. If this is the roster going into the playoffs without any meaningful upgrades then I'll be right there on the Complaint Line but I'm willing to let it play out with us only being 1 game into a very long season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes, you said the same thing to me in the summer with much more colourful language. Given we likely aren't going to agree since I rate the impact of both Kupari and Lewis as near zero, there's not much to discuss. We both have our opinions and won't have answers until the season ends, by which point I expect neither of us to care. Have a good day.

The Kings traded Vilardi, Iafallo, Kupari, and a pick for Dubois who has a head case history.

The bolded were among the Kings top producers and solid players.

Not sure what you are referring to with the summer comment.

 

[CupofOil]

Yes for 21 games we were an elite team last year fully healthy with a deeper forward group. I am comparing when our team was elite to today and our current team is worse. How much, I won’t let game 1 sway me, but worse. Could we be an elite team again? Close maybe, but we aren’t there.
This team could be an elite regular season team but they are not built to be an elite or great playoff team.

Ok, so you do think that losing Bjugstad knocks them off the elite perch, correct? Just to be clear.

And yes, I agree that they aren't an elite team now as I said to @Drivesaitl but I think they're good enough to be in comfortable playoff position by the deadline then make the significant move to push them to near the top of the line. As of now, I think they're a 2nd tier team with that defense but then again, I don't see any clear elites in this league because the margins are razor thin at the top. They REALLY need Broberg to take a step, that would alleviate a ton of concerns but I'm not counting on it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We're talking about forward depth and you're bringing up the defense. I said already that the defense is an issue and have said on multiple occasions that they'll never win a Cup with the right side D as is.

I can say that Holloway will get a bigger role because,.... Holloway has actually gotten a bigger role playing on a 3rd line now. Holloway didn't play in the playoffs so, yes, he's an addition.

It has to be stated again that the team that starts the season won't be the team that enters the playoffs. Unless you think the team as is isn't playoff good then we'll just have to wait for the deadline to see what additions are made. I remember all the grumbling around here and the lolzHolland memes prior to the Ekholm addition, it was a real chore to post here around that time. If this is the roster going into the playoffs without any meaningful upgrades then I'll be right there on the Complaint Line but I'm willing to let it play out with us only being 1 game into a very long season.

Holloway played 51 games up with the team last season. He can't be considered an addition to the team. It was a sleepy offseason with nothing addressed.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Ok, so you do think that losing Bjugstad knocks them off the elite perch, correct? Just to be clear.

And yes, I agree that they aren't an elite team now as I said to @Drivesaitl but I think they're good enough to be in comfortable playoff position by the deadline then make the significant move to push them to near the top of the line. As of now, I think they're a 2nd tier team with that defense but then again, I don't see any clear elites in this league because the margins are razor thin at the top.

I never argued we weren’t a playoff team though. That was never something I said. (I had fears we could miss playoffs but nothing to do with roster, just a bad feeling).

I think our depth and cap situation will hurt us, same with running 11-7, our defence is an issue and there isn’t anything internal on the way to remotely help with that, and I think our forward depth IS an issue. I don’t see Holloway as an addition cause he is part of that depth and imho he isn’t a top 9 player yet.

I think baring something awful we are for sure a playoff team, but I don’t think we have the players to win the conference or the cup.

 

[Oilers in NS]

The person you quoted is right.

McDavid's post game comments said "there were a few" things Vancouver did with the lead that the team didn't like. Agreed, he didn't know about Demko was sick, but it was a GREAT opportunity to just say, "We don't care what they do, we got our asses kicked"... not whine about them rolling out PP1 with a big lead.

Would he be less offended if they rolled out a bunch of scrubs and rested their best guys for the next game... which happens to be AGAINST THE OILERS? The rationale doesn't even make sense.

Pound them tomorrow and all forgotten

 

[puckguy97]

WE don't have any depth. Yet another year of the team going 11-7 type lineups because we can't even fill out a lineup.

Look I know you figure Brown is some sort of allstar that is going to transform the club but the Oilers essentially got nothing done in offseason. Holland may as well have been asleep all offseason. Looking at him in Vancouver it looks like it. This club we have now is worse than the one we ended the season with. Certainly less depth.

Holland's inability to address more than one problem area each off-season would be painful even if he didn't have to double back on the same issue multiple times (see: tending, goal) due to his sheer incompetence. Brown being our most impactful add in the most important off-season of the McDrai era is pitiful, no question. You can almost feel that in our group right now given how they're playing.

Our only hope is Jackson deciding to go all-in and circumventing the dinosaur in the GM chair to do so.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yes I do. I’m not overreacting. The difference between the good/great teams and an elite team IS depth. Always has been. We could get there after the deadline for sure but right now we aren’t an elite team. I don’t know how that’s controversial or negative. And Holloway may be on the team now but Kostin is still a depth loss we haven’t replaced. If Kostin goes down, we had Holloway. Now if someone goes down the next guy up is what, Lavoie or Malone?
Organizational depth is what makes the elite teams elite. Losing that depth hurts the org and prevents them from truly being great.

Vegas last year for example, starter goalie was out for the year and they had depth and traded for depth at that position to keep the team going. We simply don’t have that depth at any position, and that prevents teams from being elite for a whole season unless they pull a Calgary and have a zero injury year.

What is this org depth thing? lol

There is essentially next to nothing we can bring up. Slimmest cupboards arguably ever seen here. Compounded with the lack of offseason help this roster is really depth limited. I can't even come up with a 4th line or third D pair that just isn't plain ugly. Its arguable we have two good D, and Nurse not even being one of them anymore.

At this point its Ekholm and Booch and the rest imo were expendable for whatever we could get, and the capspace.

 

[CupofOil]

Holloway played 51 games up with the team last season. He can't be considered an addition to the team. It was a sleepy offseason with nothing addressed.

He barely got any minutes and didn't play in the playoffs. We're comparing this to the roster than ended the season, no?

 

[Drivesaitl]

He barely got any minutes and didn't play in the playoffs. We're comparing this to the roster than ended the season, no?

Not gonna bat this around further. Holloway was not an addition to the roster this season. This is not an opinion, but fact.
Sorry but an odd thing to argue about.

How did Brown look to you in game 1? Wheres the 200ft game people keep telling me he has. Sure he was on the pk but I expected better EV play than just being caught up ice. Brown looked like a guy playing a bad first game with the club after a midseason trade. Didn't even look like somebody who had been with the club since captains skate.

 

[CupofOil]

Not gonna bat this around further. Holloway was not an addition to the roster this season. This is not an opinion, but fact.
Sorry but an odd thing to argue about.

How did Brown look to you in game 1? Wheres the 200ft game people keep telling me he has. Sure he was on the pk but I expected better EV play than just being caught up ice. Brown looked like a guy playing a bad first game with the club after a midseason trade. Didn't even look like somebody who had been with the club since captains skate.

Holy Hell Drive.

We're talking about the end of the season roster, the playoff roster. Holloway DID NOT play in the playoffs, is this the thing where you argue for the sake of arguing? Maaan

Yeah, lets write off Brown after 1 game. Lets get Yamamoto back (eye roll).

 

[Drivesaitl]

Holy Hell Drive.

We're talking about the end of the season roster, the playoff roster. Holloway DID NOT play in the playoffs, is this the thing where you argue for the sake of arguing? Maaan

Yeah, lets write off Brown after 1 game. Lets get Yamamoto back (eye roll).

Well, whatever. I wasn't the one trying to maintain that Holloway had been an offseason addition.

I merely replied that trying to make it look like Holloway is on the list of improvements and additions to the club this season is completely false. We added Brown, we had PTO on Erne and Gagner. Something any GM could do in their sleep.

The needs and deficits of the club not even addressed. Brown is -13 career. How is he an excellent 200ft player. I'll wait for it.

 

[ujju2]

Well, whatever. I wasn't the one trying to maintain that Holloway had been an offseason addition.

I merely replied that trying to make it look like Holloway is on the list of improvements and additions to the club this season is completely false. We added Brown, we had PTO on Erne and Gagner. Something any GM could do in their sleep.

The needs and deficits of the club not even addressed. Brown is -13 career. How is he an excellent 200ft player. I'll wait for it.

He's one of the league leaders in PK TOI over the past few seasons. I'll take his coaches' trust in him as more indicative of his defensive play than an incredibly flawed stat like +/-.

 

[Lacaar]

I mentioned this on like the 6TH page actually lol

this "leadership" has some issues at times...whenever there's a big moment they're afraid to seize it, like you mentioned all those Game 1s

last season opener they went down 3-0 to the Canucks and were lucky to make a comeback in that game

Haha awesome

I like the big moment usage and I agree completely. Perhaps that's why their overtime record is garbage as well. It's pretty poor in the playoffs which is concerning. Out of curiosity I went through our playoff overtime history since 2020 as well. Here it is.

2023
Game 1 Lost to L.A, Series was 0-0 at the time
Game 3 Lost to L.A, Series was 1-1 at the time
Game 4 Beat L.A , Series was 2-1 for L.A at the time

2022
Game 5 Lost to L.A, Series was tied 2-2 at the time.
Game 5 Beat Calgary, Oilers led Series 3-1 at the time.
Game 4 Lost to Colorado, Series was 3-0 for Colorado at the time.

2021
Game 2 Lost to Winnipeg, Series was 1-0 for Winnipeg at the time.
Game 3 Lost to Winnipeg, Series was 2-0 for Winnipeg at the time.
Game 4 Lost to Winnipeg, Series was 3-0 for Winnipeg at the time.

2020 None of the 4 games went into OT. They lost all the 1 goal games if that means anything.

Just for fun I went back to 2017 though that's getting pretty far back to really understand the team today.

2017
Game 1 lost to San Jose
Game 5 beat San Jose
Game 4 lost to Anaheim
Game 5 Lost to Anaheim

 

[CupofOil]

Well, whatever. I wasn't the one trying to maintain that Holloway had been an offseason addition.

I merely replied that trying to make it look like Holloway is on the list of improvements and additions to the club this season is completely false. We added Brown, we had PTO on Erne and Gagner. Something any GM could do in their sleep.

The needs and deficits of the club not even addressed. Brown is -13 career. How is he an excellent 200ft player. I'll wait for it.

It's not well whatever. You were wrong, just own the L and we can move on.
Again, we were talking about losing depth off the end of the season roster. Holloway was not on the end of the season roster and he is now, therefore he is an addition. It's really as simple as that.

I don't know, Nurse who everybody calls a shitty Dman including you souring on him is a +62 career including +26 last season so make of that stat as you will.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He's one of the league leaders in PK TOI over the past few seasons. I'll take his coaches' trust in him as more indicative of his defensive play than an incredibly flawed stat like +/-.

Being that brown didn't even play last season I kind of doubt this.

 

[guymez]

Honestly I was a bit envious watching them go balls to the wall that game. Playing the system.. skating their asses off and just hustling like beasts.

Was a bit embarrassing after hearing my team talk the talk all summer. Hearing all the things I was thinking and having me believe they at least know what's wrong. Well.. regardless of knowing what's wrong. (beating themselves yada yada). They came out this game showed me they have no clue how to fix it. This team always finds a way to embarrass themselves, the organization, and its fanbase multiple times throughout the year.

The question needs to stop being.. can they turn things around next game. It's a WHY did you not show up the first one. That needs to be f***ing answered with this leadership. WHY can you not show up the first game. WHY do you have to get punched in the face before your realize you're in a boxing match.

This team needs to lose first before they can win... WHY?

We will never bring home Lord Stanley's cup when we have to give the first game away like they've done the last 3 years in the playoffs. The other team needs to win 3 of 6 while we need to win 4 of 6 because the first game is a freebie.

I couldnt agree more.
Usually its younger teams that need to learn and re-learn lessons.
This is one of the oldest teams in the League and they STILL have to learn lessons.
They should be teaching lessens instead its rinse and repeat regarding 'learning' with this team.
Its all about commitment and work ethic and this team rarely outworks other teams in the way Vancouver did on Wednesday. They win on talent.
Doesn't bode well for winning a cup IMO.

 

[ujju2]

Being that brown didn't even play last season I kind of doubt this.

Didn’t think I’d have to clarify that I meant when he was healthy, but fine lol